What the heck? Does Cold Steel not own a ruler?

mtangent said:
It may be wrong to single CS out.
But that just makes it an industry wide issue, not a non issue.
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It's not being done with malicious intent, it's just something that appears to be much more noticeable on that brand than others. It is a industry wide issue, the manufacturer in this case is inconsequential. Folsk need to take their pills and not get all riled up over the company mentioned.
 
Maybe one designer measured edge on broken skull and a different designer measured from pivot. Maybe each of their designers measured differently


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I might have been lucky, but my CS folders are mostly well built (metric measurements below)

Recon 1: Advertised as 102mm, reality is 99mm (has been resharpened three times)

CAM01693_zpsmtgaeij3.jpg


AK47: Advertised as 89mm, reality is 88mm

CAM01713_zpsvsyy8uaf.jpg


Voyager: Advertised as 102mm, reality is 101mm

CAM01709_zpsmrvxqd90.jpg


Other brands, in the inexpensive side, seem to be accurate too.

Utilitac II: Advertised as 89mm, reality is 87mm

CAM01697_zpsc4gch4yz.jpg


KaBar Piggyback: Advertised as 86mm, reality is 86mm

CAM01704_zps64nfl9hs.jpg


Cara Cara 2: Advertised as 95mm, reality is 95mm

CAM01701_zpsnbzbnoar.jpg


Just my $0.02
 
I spoke to Lynn about this, he said:
"We measure the blade for the worst case scenario. Knife laws vary the world over. I've seen many examples over the years of law enforcement measuring the total blade length, not just the cutting edge, especially in Europe, where knife laws are exceptionally strict. This has been common practice at Cold Steel for decades. HOWEVER, I did double check the Broken Skull and that knife is longer than advertised. That's an error on our part, and I'll make sure that is corrected in our next catalog."
 
You at least have a defense, if a company's print copy states that the blade is a specific length, even if the blade is more lengthy than advertised. But in parts of the world that only have the illusion of freedom, but people aren't actually free-like nearly all of Europe, and Australia. I can see the concern.


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Cold Steel Knives said:
I spoke to Lynn about this, he said:
"We measure the blade for the worst case scenario. Knife laws vary the world over. I've seen many examples over the years of law enforcement measuring the total blade length, not just the cutting edge, especially in Europe, where knife laws are exceptionally strict. This has been common practice at Cold Steel for decades. HOWEVER, I did double check the Broken Skull and that knife is longer than advertised. That's an error on our part, and I'll make sure that is corrected in our next catalog."
Click to expand...

What does that even mean, "worst case scenario"? I think it would be helpful if we knew

1) From where to where do you measure your blades?
2) Is that done consistently?
3) Is that measurement used in your promotional materials? And if you round, to what precision?

Then people know what they are buying from you. Seems like fair questions coming from the demographic here.
 
Cold Steel Knives said:
I spoke to Lynn about this, he said:
"We measure the blade for the worst case scenario. Knife laws vary the world over. I've seen many examples over the years of law enforcement measuring the total blade length, not just the cutting edge, especially in Europe, where knife laws are exceptionally strict. This has been common practice at Cold Steel for decades. HOWEVER, I did double check the Broken Skull and that knife is longer than advertised. That's an error on our part, and I'll make sure that is corrected in our next catalog."
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For the people that bought the broken skull thinking they could legally carry it , but cannot due to your guys mistake will you do anything for your customers?
 
Well, thank you CS for making some comment, even if the reasoning is odd and doesn't really explain the large variation and blades being over 4".

Some comments for the thread:
1. I don't think it is wrong to single out CS in this issue. A few knives from other manufacturers may be over or under by a mm or two, but a quarter inch short to an eight inch long is out of the norm, especially if there is individual variance in batches of each model. Every Spyderco, ZT, and CKF I have owned was spot on to the nearest hundredth, and my Microtechs, Benchmades, and Kersahaws were less than .05 under. I don't think it is wrong to single out a company that has two to five times that variance.
2. In 95% of cases blades are measured from the tip to the nearest point on the handle by the manufacturer. If we accept measurements of edge length or length from the tip to the farthest point at which the blade is exposed and don't stick to a defined standard we can have an actual blade length a quarter inch shorter than listed. The case of pivot to tip is just absurd because it accounts for half an inch of the blade that is completely unusable no matter how the blade is ground. I know some manufacturers or makers want to stick with these methods, but using them and not saying so with the buyer's assumption that it is tip to handle is almost a scam.
 
Maybe we all need to get together and sue Cold Steel for deceptive marketing? They are promising something to their customers that they are not delivering on, exposing their customers to potential legal action if they are caught carrying a longer blade than permissible, and charging their customers for more material than they are providing...

Of course this would strictly be about "protecting the consumer" though (just like CS's lawsuit w/ CRKT and the San Mai cease and desist letter). "What goes around comes around", right?
 
You asked a question, and got an answer from the President of the company.
Then it descended into name calling and trolling...
:barf:
I'm still pretty new to BF, and I rarely venture outside the CS subforum. I was hoping to free up more time to spend engaging with the rest of the community and trying to answer questions and comments on other threads.
This kind of response makes me think that time might be sadly wasted
What a shame
 
Cold Steel Knives said:
You asked a question, and got an answer from the President of the company.
Then it descended into name calling and trolling...
:barf:
I'm still pretty new to BF, and I rarely venture outside the CS subforum. I was hoping to free up more time to spend engaging with the rest of the community and trying to answer questions and comments on other threads.
This kind of response makes me think that time might be sadly wasted
What a shame
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Look, I'm a fan of cold steel as a company in general (3V Master Tanto on my belt as I type this) so please keep that in mind when I say:

This is a poor response. If you are a customer service representative, you deal with customers. In the knife world, many of your customers are going to be over-dramatic and cross normal social lines because they have anonymity and are hobbyists. Hobbyists are going to be much more passionate (read: much more insulting and critical) than your average joe. Hell, your average joe wouldn't have even bothered to measure the knives, probably wouldn't have cared if it was a bit short or long to begin with, and definitely wouldn't make a post on a knife forum about it.

While you may experience reactions well outside of what would generally be socially acceptable, responding with "YOU GUYS ARE MEAN SAY YOU'RE SORRY OR IM GOING HOME" is just unprofessional and reflects an unwillingness to properly handle customers.

I'm not saying the customer is always right - I work retail and know that is BS - I'm saying you need to respond to those foaming at the mouth with rage as if they politely posited a question. It's not easy or rewarding, but it's the job.
 
Comeuppance - thank you for your feedback.
I understand this is a specialist community. We're all here because we love knives. I enjoy interacting with fellow blade enthusiasts and collectors and I like chatting to people who are as passionate as my colleagues and I about the sharp stuff.
However, an insult is an insult, and I think it's a shame that I can't jump onto another section of the forum to try and help someone out without reading the same tired old Lynn hating posts.

I'm not a part of the customer service team (they can be reached directly via customerservice@coldsteel.com) but I am trying to help. I responded to the OP with a direct reply from the company President.
I brought it to his attention, he looked into it and he gave me the answer. I hoped it had helped to clarify.

We always measure the longest possible distance that can be defined as "blade". Not cutting edge.
This is because we have met and consulted with law enforcement professionals all over the world and discussed their blade length laws in detail.
Many times the answer given when asked about measuring blade length was "it's down to the individual officers discretion" - this is of course a concern.
Therefore we err on the side of caution and measure the largest possible length of blade.

HOWEVER - While reading this thread, Lynn discovered that the Broken Skull was indeed longer than advertised. He said he'll make sure that all copy and print materials are amended ASAP to reflect this.
He appreciates the heads up and wanted to thank the OP for pointing that out.

I hope that help. Thanks
 
Cold Steel Knives said:
You asked a question, and got an answer from the President of the company.
Then it descended into name calling and trolling...
:barf:
I'm still pretty new to BF, and I rarely venture outside the CS subforum. I was hoping to free up more time to spend engaging with the rest of the community and trying to answer questions and comments on other threads.
This kind of response makes me think that time might be sadly wasted
What a shame
Click to expand...

What's a shame is that CS makes a quality, high value product, but the product is being hurt by the behavior and resulting reputation of your ownership. People notice these things and they matter to many of us.

Many in the community have no interest in supporting a company that sues someone for making "false" statements in their advertising while at the same time selling knives shorter than advertised! Then you complain after coming to "general" and people press you on inconsistencies found in your owners response? Seriously? :thumbdn:
 
I am not Lynn
But I did bring this to his attention in an attempt to help
To clarify - We measure the longest possible distance that can be defined as "blade". Not cutting edge.

I will always try to to advise to the best of my knowledge. Ordinarily this is just in the CS subforum, but I saw this post and tried to help.
If I don't know the answer, I'll seek out someone that does. In this case it was Lynn.
Thanks
 
stabman said:
It ain't singling them out if he bought a bunch of their knives and noticed a trend...which it seems is the case.
Obviously isn't a "hater" either, judging by the number of their products he bought.
Click to expand...

Correct!

There are no laws on blade length here, and I knew some of these knives would be shorter or longer (front of bolster to blade tip) than the advertised spec before I ordered them. For example, I was aware the Pro Lite was under 3.5", that the Recon 1 was about 3.9" and that the XL Voyager was about 5-1/4", etc.

I don't really care exactly how long my knife's blade is. Doesn't bother me.

However, I did notice several of the Cold Steels were different than advertised, and I was curious as to the reason.


Cold Steel Knives said:
I spoke to Lynn about this, he said:
"We measure the blade for the worst case scenario. Knife laws vary the world over. I've seen many examples over the years of law enforcement measuring the total blade length, not just the cutting edge, especially in Europe, where knife laws are exceptionally strict. This has been common practice at Cold Steel for decades. HOWEVER, I did double check the Broken Skull and that knife is longer than advertised. That's an error on our part, and I'll make sure that is corrected in our next catalog."
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifying. Much appreciated!
 
So CS rounds up.
Sounds like a good idea in general, considering all the jurisdictions that fuss about blade length.
The industry should take note.
 
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