Whats The Forums Opinion Of Mad Dog?

[Spark]

Yeah, especially the people who aren't afraid to report the truth, like edge chipping, actual RC testing results, head to head comparisons, instead of parroting hollow claims that don't stand up under actual testing; or swallowing the contradictory statements or outright falsehoods or hype.

But then, it could be a stolen defective flying saucer key after all... right Cougar?

Spark

------------------
Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here

 

[lsstaipei]

MDs are good knives,IMHO.
TikBlade,were you trying to say the people who don't own MD's or are not so crazy about them just because they cannot afford one or two?
If not,would you please tell us more about your point?
And the features you mentioned are not really so rare.IMO,knives should never be evaluated in isolation.BTW,thanx for the introduction.

Now I gotta decide which one to take with me for tomorrow's camping--Busse Basic7 or BK&T Campanion?

 

[E__WOK]

Can't we all get along?

------------------
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=135350&a=992272

 

[Cliff Stamp]

lsstaipei:

the features you mentioned are not really so rare.

Of course not, this is all hype. Allen Blade's large Combat Bowie (9-10" blade) for example has all of those features except for the forward rake (which he could easily do) and the Hard Chrome (which is for looks and little else). Compare his price, about $150 to MD's, about $1000. He is not the only custom maker that will do this either.

knives should never be evaluated in isolation

Which is the main problem. At their price range, and far below there are blades easily exceeding the performance, and are *guaranteed* to do so.

Regarding the chipping, it is not just on rocks and metals, Ron Hoods has commented that his students chipped out multiple MD blades in normal camp chores, Will Kwan chipped out an ATAK by prying in wood, Mike Turber chipped one out by chopping on a 2x4, I broke a piece out of mine by prying in a pine 4x4 (which is far less stressful than when I chop with blades) etc.

But here is the thing, even if the chipping was just on rocks and metals, MD has stated before that his serrations work well on cutting up cars (old forum) his wife comments that she uses hers in the garden, and of course none of this damages the blade. They are hyped well above their level of performance.

And again, this is relative, I have a camp knife from Ed Shott that doesn't even have an edge bevel, the primary grind runs right to the edge, it chopped into a metal block without damage that chipped out an ATAK (Will Kwan's). Its edge profile is far more acute than the ATAK's and thus will easily outcut it and at the same time is more durable.

-Cliff

 

[JDS]

I am relatively new to the forum and missed the previous controversies regarding Mad Dog knives. I have gone back and looked through old postings regarding several knife makers and tried to remain as objective as possible. What did strike me is the difference in how the end user is/was treated by different personalities. Even assuming that blade performance is equal, I would steer clear of some makers because I don't like how they handle their business. I realize that is their choice, but so is my choice of who gets my business. There are qualities other than steel, fit, and finish that I look for in a knife company.

Now Tom Mayo......well that's another story all together

 

[Dew]

Toilet seats from Maddog? Would take a while before my as* could get along with those notches.

Seriously, for fighters I would better consider a few other makers that offer CPM3V: Jerry Hossom, Ed Schotts, for example.

Dew.

 

[not2sharp]

OH NOOOooo, Not this topic again!

In all fairness to Mad Dog and other makers; we are way too focused on the knife and pay perhaps not enough attention on the knife user. The best knife for you is either the knife you are most comfortable using, or, something with similar performance characteristics.

If you want to change to a different type of knife (e.g. different edge angle, hardness, length, weight, balance, etc.), you should be prepared to train with your new tool.

Maybe the maddog knife that cannot keep up with the Busse knife (etc) with one user can with a different user easilly become an outperformer. The knife is only part of the equation. Performance also depends on technique, and the specifications of the knife will determine the optimal technique.

 

[Samurai6]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. When there are two strongly opposed views expressed on a topic, the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. Mad Dog knives work very well or me and a lot of other people, and there is a good chance that they will work very well for the next guy. A person simply has to read all the reviews and comments and decide for themselves if their use pattern matches the design philosophy of the Mad Dog knife.

Listing the features of one of one's favorite knives is not usually considered hype around here, except for one particular knife brand; in fact it is what this forum is all about (or is it?). So, this time, why don't we let the good opinions stand next to the bad without insulting each other.

Cliff,
Please tell me some more about the Allen Blade Combat Bowie. I can't find his web site any more. Is the tang completely enclosed? What kind of steel is he using? Differential heat treat? I have one of Allen's blades, a 52100 Field Patrol. Great knife, especially for the price ($175). It takes and holds an amazing edge, and it is stronger than hammered heck. It is not as comfortable as my Mad Dog Arizona Hunter though, it has a hollow saber grind rather than a full flat grind, and the black oxide treated blade rusts with gusto, so it is a matter of opinion whether the Mad Dog is worth the extra $150 or not. To me, it is.

A lot of makers do make very good field knives for around $200, but they are usually 1000 series steel instead of tool steel if they are differentially heat treated, usually have slab handle scales, and no blade coating, or merely an oxidized, or Parkerized, blade.

 

[Ryan Meyering]

Originally posted by Steve Harvey:
Please tell me some more about the Allen Blade Combat Bowie. I can't find his web site any more. Is the tang completely enclosed?

Yes, with micarta handle.

Originally posted by Steve Harvey:
What kind of steel is he using?

5160 is standard.

Originally posted by Steve Harvey:
Differential heat treat?

Yes.

Originally posted by Steve Harvey:
I have one of Allen's blades, a 52100 Field Patrol. Great knife, especially for the price ($175). It takes and holds an amazing edge, and it is stronger than hammered heck. It is not as comfortable as my Mad Dog Arizona Hunter though, it has a hollow saber grind rather than a full flat grind, and the black oxide treated blade rusts with gusto, so it is a matter of opinion whether the Mad Dog is worth the extra $150 or not. To me, it is.

The combat patrol bowie is fully flat ground. I don't remember Allen's website, but you can see pictures of his knives, and possibly a link to his site, on Marion Poff's website. I was really impressed by his flat grinding video, and I'm definitely going to buy one of his bowies soon.

Ryan



------------------
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:23

 

[Bronco]

Can ya believe we made it to almost 60 posts on this subject before everyone went to DEFCON 5. I'd say we're making some serious progress

.

BTW, I too could no longer link to Allen's site and eventually shot him an email. He quickly responded and let me know that he's in the process of building a brand new site. I'm sure he'll give us a heads up when he's done. Staring at that MEUK never gets old.

------------------
Semper Fi

 

[Hoodoo]

Originally posted by Steve Harvey:
Please tell me some more about the Allen Blade Combat Bowie. I can't find his web site any more.

I'd like to know too. I became interested when I watched him grind one on his video but I could no longer find his website.




------------------
Hoodoo

The low, hoarse purr of the whirling stone—the light-press’d blade,
Diffusing, dropping, sideways-darting, in tiny showers of gold,
Sparkles from the wheel.

Walt Whitman

 

[TickBlade]

lsstaipei:

MDs are good knives,IMHO.

Yes, they are!

TikBlade [sic],were you trying to say the people who don't own MD's or are not so crazy about them just because they cannot afford one or two?

Not at all. I used to admire Mad Dogs even when I could not afford them. I spent months gathering enough money for an ATAK and I bought it without ever handling one. I was in love instantly and even more so after using it. I carry a Pygmy ATAK daily now and have become an authorized Mad Dog dealer.

If not,would you please tell us more about your point?

Do I know you? Do you live in Taipei? I'm not sure if you know, but I also live in Taipei. If you want to handle my personal Mad Dogs and some of my stock, feel free to contact me to schedule a meeting. This will help you get an idea of what Mad Dogs are all about instead of all this arguing.

And the features you mentioned are not really so rare.IMO,knives should never be evaluated in isolation.BTW,thanx for the introduction.

Mad Dog Knives have been tested over and over again. The Navy has tested them. Mike Turber and others have run many extensive tests for BF.com. Cliff Stamp has tested the TUSK with other knives. Hilton Yam, a former dealer, has replicated the SEAL tests. These are just a few. The results have been split though. Some say Mad Dogs are all hype while others love them. In the end, we buy what we like and what works for us. Mad Dogs work for me and I like them, so I buy them. If you don't like them, don't buy them.

Now I gotta decide which one to take with me for tomorrow's camping--Busse Basic7 or BK&T Campanion

If you get a chance, drop by Taiwan's Knifenut Forums (http://knifenut.i.am) and introduce yourself. We'd love to see you around. If you want some Chinese literature on Mad Dog Knives, please go to my dealer site. http://maddogknives.i.am

My email is: flatground@hotmail.com



------------------

 

[Paracelsus]

This is really funny:

Mad Dog Knives have been tested over and over again. The Navy has tested them. (they sink ships, right?) Mike Turber and others have run many extensive tests for BF.com. (this is a Good Thing, right?) Cliff Stamp has tested the TUSK with other knives. (cliff liked the way the tusk broke, if I remember correctly) Hilton Yam, a former dealer, has replicated the SEAL tests (he can bark too). These are just a few.(thank-goodness!) The results have been split though.(some snapped, cracked, split, and chipped) Some say Mad Dogs are all hype (not me, I think they are made of some sort of metal too) while others love them (yup). In the end, we buy what we like and what works for us. Mad Dogs work for me and I like them, so I buy them. (and sell them) If you don't like them, don't buy them.(sounds good to me)

Paracelsus, commenting on things I have read about but never purchased

[This message has been edited by Paracelsus (edited 04-15-2000).]

 

[TickBlade]

Paracelsus:

Mad Dog Knives have been tested over and over again. The Navy has tested them. (they sink ships, right?)

No.

Mike Turber and others have run many extensive tests for BF.com. (this is a Good Thing, right?)

Yes, it's a good thing that the knives we use are being evaluated by a number of sources.

Cliff Stamp has tested the TUSK with other knives. (cliff liked the way the tusk broke, if I remember correctly)

I'm sure he didn't. I have read his reviews. Mad Dog Knives are not indestructible and will not hold up under ABUSE. I consider his testing to be abusive (especially when he impacted the spine of the TUSK blade with another metallic tool, the Uluchet).

In the end, we buy what we like and what works for us. Mad Dogs work for me and I like them, so I buy them. (and sell them)

Yes, I buy them. I carry and use them the way they are intended to be used. If I ever needed to pry with them, I would use the whole blade instead of just the edge. I am also a dealer because I would like to introduce others to a fine product in which I personally believe. This is the only knife I sell, and I do it as a hobby.

If you don't like them, don't buy them.(sounds good to me)

Me too!

Paracelsus, commenting on things I have read about but never purchased

If you get a chance, give MDK a try.

You may change your mind.

 

[lifter4Him]

woohoo. Now this is starting to look like a Mad Dog thread. Where the heck is the popcorn?

BTW-for once I agree with Steve Harvey. There was no hype going on in this thread up till that point he pointed out. I think that more people have problems with the maker of these knives than the knives themselves.Let's face it, most of us live in civilization and we're not really gonna need a knife to live off the land. When I need to cut down a tree I use an ax. For the few of us still in military service, let them decide what they want to carry. The hardest thing one of my knives is gonna cut is the inside of someone foolish enough to come into my home uninvited or threatens physical harm to my family.And if the blade breaks inside them, well, I'll just ship the whole body back to the maker for repair

.

BTW-can I get mokume hinges on that toilet seat?

------------------
Dave (Phil.4:13)
I Can Do All Things Through Him Who Strengthens Me

[This message has been edited by lifter4Him@aol.com (edited 04-15-2000).]

 

[E__WOK]

Thank you, Tickblade.

 

[Cobalt]

I would love MD knives if MD did the following:

1. Either changed his steel, to one that can be hardened to an Rc of 62-63 safely, or the more likely option of reducing the Rc to 57-59. Some say the differential heat treat could be the problem, maybe, maybe not, since only MD knows how it's done.

2. GET RID OF THE HARD CHROME, it's worthless. Over a year ago on knifeforums I brought up how useless for corrosion resistance HC is, explaining capilary action, hydrogen embrittlement and the fact that once you get rust developing between the HC and the steel it travels without the user knowing or being able to do anything about it. I even brought up several HC sources that agreed with this point of view. Once hard chrome is on your steel, it is extremely hard to remove and with the better ones almost impossible to remove. So you get a blade that rusts and you cannot do anything about. I want to see the rust so I can remove it.

HC is used in corrosive environments. But it is bonded to steels like 316 and 304 that are leaps and bounds more corrosion resistant than any knife steel in use. The hard chrome acts like another layer of chrome on the steel. These steels already have high chrome concentrations so there is little worry that corrosion will develope between the steel and HC. Also, there is no exposed non HC surface(like an edge) to allow corrosion between the HC and steel to start.

The brittleness of these blades has been sufficiently prooven to me to the point that I will avoid these knives. I would not pay half the price that they retail for and I would certainly get a Randall, BK&T or Busse over these knives in a heart beat.

Also as for testing, some say CLiffs testing was unreasonable, tickblade, well, he didn't wack the spine on the second one and it failed worse than the first. Also, I will point out that his test was defintely no were near as abusive as the supposed(and maybe imaginary) soldier that used a tusk as a diving board by sticking the end of it in the top of a file cabinet and jumping on it. The dynamic load created by a human jumping on something, cannot be equaled with anything Cliff could have done barehanded. I don't think MD owners have really tested their knives hard. The ones that have, have had the knives fail in one way or the other. Heck, if I paid that much for a knife and I have many times, I would hope that the maker had already tested it.

So reduce the Rc, remove the HC and accordingly drop the price by $100 and the knife would be reasonable(oh, I'm talking about the ATAK by the way, because the TUSK is absolutely rediculously priced).

 

[Strider]

Gotta say I'm with Lifter on this one.
Bob

 

[carnifex]

I have never owned a Mad Dog knife, although the thought of buying an Operator has occured to me. I have never really heard all the hype until I went to their website and read the "stories". And then came back here and read some of the Mad Dog Wars.
One thing that I personally always considered a weakpoint in these knives is the Hard Chrome coating. I too suspected that corrosion would creep up underneath the coating at the edge. This was vehemently denied by the Mad Dogs. I also posted the question here and was strangely enough told that the coating would hold up fine.
I never believed it

Hard chroming is all fine and dandy, but it is still just a surface coating. Pretty much any of the Ti coatings will hold up better. Their RC is usually higher, they actually penetrate in to the surface of the steel to a certain degree and is a hell of a lot easier to remove if that's what you want to do.
Knowing that a Mad Dog knife doesn't even have a mechanical detent to keep the handle in place only helps to cement my belief that Mad Dog knives are hyped up beyond belief.
The SOG Seal Knife 2000 also survived all the navy's tests and it is hell of a lot cheaper. Do you guys know anybody that has ever broken a Seal Knife 2000, I mean shattered it into two pieces, like the MD's Cliff Stamp tested?

------------------
Regards
Joshua "Kage" Calvert

"Move like Water, strike like Thunder..."

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Cobalt :

changed his steel, to one that can be hardened to an Rc of 62-63 safely

This is not possible even with 3V if you intend to chop with it.

Tickblade :

I consider his testing to be abusive (especially when he impacted the spine of the TUSK blade with another metallic tool, the Uluchet).

So a uniformly treated D2 blade 1/4" thick is tougher than a O1 blade also 1/4" thick with a differential temper? To be specific, D2 at 56-58 RC is tougher than O1 at 50 RC? Do you know how insane that sounds?

D2 is far more corrosion resistant than O1, it has far better edge holding and is a much more aggressive slicer, at 56-58RC it will be far stronger, why would you use O1 if D2 was tougher as well?


-Cliff