What's with all the Hinderer XM-18s for sale?

[bodog]

They were phrased in a less than acceptable manner, and were set up to fuel an argument (no, just discussing knives)
As far as DLC coatings, I don't know any knifemaker that does their own coating in house (Correct, ionbond does most in the US). Most knives in the price range are also CNC'd...I think the term outsourced doesn't mean what some people may think it means (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/outsource). Rick & Rob were not hiding anything from anyone from what I've read over the years(they weren't very forthcoming). Seems that some folks are discovering something long standing (but rarely discussed)

Personally I'm fine with the outsourced parts as long as credit is clearly given where credit is due. I'm also fine with people liking the knives, that's not my business. I don't, and that's not their business. Bld is correct, they make the knives how they want them. It's the consumer's right to like them or not, that's a given. What's fair is that people should be able to discuss why they personally do something one way or another without censorship. And people should be able to speak the truth about how a product is made. I don't see that as anything other than legitimate discussion.

A "what's wrong with buck" thread is 22 pages long and counting with people expressing opinions for and against what buck knife company is doing and what they're using for materials and how the knives are made. I don't see any censorship over there even with people getting a little touchy. A simple discussion about RHK is another matter? Looks like it.

The OP was curious and responders speculated some and offered opinions and information. That seems pretty normal for a forum.

 

[netguy1999]

Personally, I have no problem with anyone expressing their opinion. That is, after all, what free speech is all about. However, if a statement is presented as a fact, it should be backed up with evidence that clearly demonstrates the alleged fact. I'm not saying they do or don't outsource some of the processes. That's not for me to say. But if a person makes a statement or claim, it is their responsibility to provide evidence.

 

[craytab]

Personally, I have no problem with anyone expressing their opinion. That is, after all, what free speech is all about. However, if a statement is presented as a fact, it should be backed up with evidence that clearly demonstrates the alleged fact. I'm not saying they do or don't outsource some of the processes. That's not for me to say. But if a person makes a statement or claim, it is their responsibility to provide evidence.

There is no free speech here. This is a private forum. The owner decides who can participate and if what they say is appropriate. That is why there are rules. Follow them and what you post will likely be just fine. Do what the mods say as they enforce the rules and the wishes of the owner.

Freedom of speech protects you from persecution from the government or censorship. It has no relevancy here.

 

[netguy1999]

There is no free speech here. This is a private forum. The owner decides who can participate and if what they say is appropriate. That is why there are rules. Follow them and what you post will likely be just fine. Do what the mods say as they enforce the rules and the wishes of the owner.

Freedom of speech protects you from persecution from the government or censorship. It has no relevancy here.

Fair enough. The rest of my post stands.

 

[jill jackson]

If I hurt myself on a knife in don't blame the manufacturer and try to find everything possible to complain about them. I blame myself for not learning how to handle the model, in a safe responsible manner. It's part of being an adult and using things that can harm you, there's only so much a manufacturer can do the rest falls on us.

 

[netguy1999]

If I hurt myself on a knife in don't blame the manufacturer and try to find everything possible to complain about them. I blame myself for not learning how to handle the model, in a safe responsible manner. It's part of being an adult and using things that can harm you, there's only so much a manufacturer can do the rest falls on us.

Specially with things designed to CUT.

 

[stabman]

Seems the recent ones have stronger detents...they probably decided that people's whining could be bad for business.
It also meant that it crossed the border quite nicely.
The pivot had been tightened, but even after I loosened it so the blade would fall closed when unlocked, the detent was sufficient that inertial opening would be nigh on impossible (at least without pulling some tendons awfully badly).
Which is awesome news for us in Canada, as knives that open via inertia are a great way to end up in jail (I don't need a new way to get arrested...pretty sure I can figure out more fun ways if I need to ).

 

[pjandyho]

Seems the recent ones have stronger detents...they probably decided that people's whining could be bad for business.

The pivot had been tightened, but even after I loosened it so the blade would fall closed when unlocked, the detent was sufficient that inertial opening would be nigh on impossible.

Mine has a stronger detent than the ones my friends possessed. I like it this way because it makes it much easier to charge up and really flick the blade out fast. Opening with thumb studs however is harder with the stronger detent but not impossible. Inertia opening is just impossible and that didn't bother me a single bit because I just love the flipping action via the flipper. My only complain is that the flipper is way too sharp. The one on my ZT Hinderer design is more rounded and doesn't hurt my fingers as much.

 

[stabman]

. My only complain is that the flipper is way too sharp.

The corners on the flipper are a tad pokey.
At some point in the future it may need to be taken apart for a good cleaning, and I'll likely sand that area for additional comfort.

 

[netguy1999]

The corners on the flipper are a tad pokey.
At some point in the future it may need to be taken apart for a good cleaning, and I'll likely sand that area for additional comfort.

Mine don't seem too bad. I consider it extra traction. Comes in handy if you're wearing gloves.

 

[stabman]

Mine don't seem too bad. I consider it extra traction. Comes in handy if you're wearing gloves.

There's positive and negative to almost anything.
I won't be rounding mine too much, just to my personal preference. Certainly don't want to make the flipper slippery either.

 

[bld522]

Seems the recent ones have stronger detents...they probably decided that people's whining could be bad for business.

Could also be a design change that came along with new variants of the XM and increased production. At this point, I'd say the notion that XMs are strictly for Mil/LEO/EMT personnel has pretty much gone by the wayside.

 

[stabman]

Could also be a design change that came along with new variants of the XM and increased production. At this point, I'd say the notion that XMs are strictly for Mil/LEO/EMT personnel has pretty much gone by the wayside.

I think that was more for when production numbers were less; given Rick's background, he wanted to give people in those fields dibs on them.

Inertial opening isn't needed with a flipper anyway; I've tested mine for opening with my goatskin winter gloves that have kevlar lining AND 200 grams of Thinsulate insulation...they are rather bulky (warm as hell too). It opens just fine with the flipper. :thumbup:

I've yet to meet the emergency responder who wore gloves with less dexterity than those.

 

[RamZar]

The corners on the flipper are a tad pokey.
At some point in the future it may need to be taken apart for a good cleaning, and I'll likely sand that area for additional comfort.

Agreed on the sharp edge of the XM flipper tab. Seems more on my XM-18 3.5".

ZT 0562 fixed that issue. However, personally, you can't beat the great overall ergos of the XM series. It feels so secure in the hand.

 

[uofaengr]

Owned a 3.5 and 3. Sold the 3.5. Well made, but was never gonna carry the thing, bulky and didn't cut well so what's the point. Know what I like at that price point now and it's not the XM. When I get moved and settled, I'll probably sell the 3 also.

 

[bld522]

I think that was more for when production numbers were less; given Rick's background, he wanted to give people in those fields dibs on them.

Unless I'm reading the information on the Hinderer website incorrectly, the dibs system on XMs doesn't seem to have changed. But the design seems to have . . . at least with respect to the strength of the XM's detent. If interial opening was an important feature of XMs when production numbers were less and it's no longer a feature now that production numbers have increased, what would you attribute that to?

 

[RevDevil]

Bodog, suffice it to say that your way of "just discussing knives" seems to fall outside the norm. So much so much that it has earned tou negative attention, you know exactly what I am referring to as well. You can add as many cutesy comments as you like, it doesn't make your style of "discussion" any less argumentative.

 

[craytab]

Bodog, suffice it to say that your way of "just discussing knives" seems to fall outside the norm. So much so much that it has earned tou negative attention, you know exactly what I am referring to as well. You can ard as many cutesy comments as you like, it doesn't make your style of "discussion" any less argumentative.

:thumbup:

 

[bld522]

RD dropped by with his Mod hat on and everyone paid attention which, of course, is precisely what they should have done. But now that his message has been delivered, an unanswered question remains that deserves to be addressed . . . one that has to do with evolution of the XM detent . . . and I'd like to get back to it if I may.

I don't think there's any question that Rick has strengthened the detent on his XMs, particularly since he released his new models. And I don't think there's any doubt about why he did that. But to have increased the XM's detent strength at the sacrifice of one of its hallmark opening methods presents an interesting dilemma. Is it no longer important that Mil/LEO/EMT personnel can open an XM using the intertial opening method so steadfastly defended by Rob in several posts? If it's not, why not? The answer to me is obvious. The XM apparently has been purposely tuned for use by civilians and as such, it's just another knife . . . a well-made knife, no doubt . . . but nothing special or deserving of the Mil/LEO/EMT-only cache it used to carry. And it also makes me wonder if XMs that remain sold exclusively by the factory to Mil/LEO/EMT personnel are tuned differently than those produced for retail sales and potentially leading to XMs with weak detents continuing to make their way into circulation via the secondary market.

One thing I'm pretty sure of. The weak detent "problem" with Hinderer XMs isn't going to go away anytime soon.

 

[jill jackson]

I can open my new 18 and 24, flipper, thumb stud, or inertia. Easy all 3 ways. They are bowie blades too, so yes they're recent.