what's wrong whit Buck Knives?

AusLoX said:
We will never go back to the gold standard. Ever. It won't work with a global economy. I really don't want to get deep into it. PM me if you would like to continue the convo. I'm a financial engineer. I've worked for black rock. Goldman. And now work for a private firm designing engineered investments. Dealing with Options and futures mostly. Without a doubt the gold standard cannot and will not ever work again. I'd bet my life on it with zero hedge.
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Ooh, Blackrock and GS - the scummiest of the scumbags. :D It can work, and it will. We're on a race to the bottom, and our fiat system's days are numbered. You of all people should know that the 'great recession' of '08 was never dealt with, paper money is a fraud, and the FED and banksters are the biggest thieves in the history of the world. The BRICS are in position to replace the USD as the reserve (Yuan/Renminbi? SDR? It won't be the USD).

The only sound system is the gold standard. It's feared because it makes people [criminal governments and banks] play honestly. Ultimately, when the paper ponzi collapses, it won't be up to governments to decide. It's a confidence game, and once the rest of the world realizes they've been fleeced, nobody is going to want paper 'funny money.' :) Should be very interesting.
 
Ankerson said:
Then why are you thinking like a customer? ;)
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Seriously?

Answer the question Jim.

You are the one whose asserted that price indicates quality. Defend your assertion. What's the difference in the quality of the knives I've listed?

Pricing depends on a lot of things. Quality is not always one of those things. Really, anybody with any credible retail or marketing experience understands this.

"You get what you pay for" is a marketing myth told to customers who have an emotional precommitment to price as an indicator of quality. It's the premium pricing model. Honestly, I could push this threat to 50 pages listing retail examples of the same core product being sold at wildly different price points.

You're not answering a simple and straight-forward question because that question is exposing how your over-state and overly simplistic assertion doesn't hold up.
 
Ankerson said:
That's not what anyone is saying. ;)

They are in your price range so that's what you buy.

The real problem comes in when some want to try and make them sound like they are more than they really are.
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You couldn't be anymore wrong. You think, and you are thinking, that people buy Bucks because that's all they can save their pennies for. You're not getting that people buy them because they are a better knife than other options. People would gladly pay twice the price for another brand if it could out do the buck choices.

I could buy knives that make your Busse and striders look like bubble gum machine knives if I wanted to. I am just too practical to be that stupid. I know no matter what, that at any price I will put any knife in its grave from using it. It takes years up to a decade. Once you've done it and see the actual difference you will learn a lesson. The only knives that will be handed down to the next generation will be whatever knife happens to be the last I buy. Knives that see use do not last a life time and if one does last a life time it wasn't used much.

That's no issue for the flavor of the week crowd and you. You won't have the same knife in your pocket next year at this time. If you did and used it everyday you'd understand why people buy Bucks.

This is what you look like the buck users replying.

Humans couldn't have built the pyramids so ALIENS!
Bucks can't be good knives because ESEE!

Your economics models have nothing to do with it either. It's all about the knife. It would be nice if you stop deflecting.
 
vanslem6 said:
Perfect example is General Motors. The cars are mediocre, but priced high. You don't get what you pay for compared to other brands - you support lifetime pensions and insurance for retirees. :) Legacy costs ain't cheap, and certainly won't last forever.

What's the standard markup on knives? In the type of industry I'm familiar with, 2.5-3.5 times cost is generally what you price something at. Perceived value can trump your cost, however. I can get Adidas sweatshirts for $4-5, and sell them for $50-60. Are they closeouts? Absolutely. Do I care? Nope, nor do the people buying them. Lots of things to consider - overhead, material costs (fiat currencies and exchange rates again), transportation, country of origin, insurance, etc., etc., etc.. There are a million and one variables to consider, yet most people that have never been involved in any sort of business assume that firms are 'greedy' when the prices go up, up, up. It's not always the case.

So from my limited experience, a $28 Buck 110 would likely cost about $10-11 to produce (if that $28 was the MSRP). That's pretty cheap, but the design hasn't changed a whole lot, so that would certainly help lower cost over time. Where are they being made?? In what currency is the labour being paid? Who owns the factory/equipment? Is the distribution done in-house? So very many things to consider. Most of what we (us consumers) decide is based directly on our experience and perception. For example - most people probably don't think GM vehicles are overpriced crap. I do. :) It's all relative.
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I think cars in general are a waste of money and generally a terrible investment as they lose value the second they are sold and continue to drop in value.

But that's my opinion on that.

I wouldn't give $.10 for any GM product or Ford for that matter, stopped even looking at them seriously over 15 years ago.

The Buck 110 at Wally World is on sale, reg price is like $40.
 
Duane Sanders said:
You couldn't be anymore wrong. You think, and you are thinking, that people buy Bucks because that's all they can save their pennies for. You're not getting that people buy them because they are a better knife than other options. People would gladly pay twice the price for another brand if it could out do the buck choices.

I could buy knives that make your Busse and striders look like bubble gum machine knives if I wanted to. I am just too practical to be that stupid. I know no matter what, that at any price I will put any knife in its grave from using it. It takes years up to a decade. Once you've done it and see the actual difference you will learn a lesson. The only knives that will be handed down to the next generation will be whatever knife happens to be the last I buy. Knives that see use do not last a life time and if one does last a life time it wasn't used much.

That's no issue for the flavor of the week crowd and you. You won't have the same knife in your pocket next year at this time. If you did and used it everyday you'd understand why people buy Bucks.

This is what you look like the buck users replying.

Humans couldn't have built the pyramids so ALIENS!
Bucks can't be good knives because ESEE!

Your economics models have nothing to do with it either. It's all about the knife. It would be nice if you stop deflecting.
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Like I said before market research along with human behavior research..... ;)

And you fit the mold perfectly by your responses, that is people that would buy knives in the Buck 110 range..... (Target Market)

Products aren't priced in different categories by accident, they are all aimed at certain types of buyers.
 
vanslem6 said:
Ooh, Blackrock and GS - the scummiest of the scumbags. :D It can work, and it will. We're on a race to the bottom, and our fiat system's days are numbered. You of all people should know that the 'great recession' of '08 was never dealt with, paper money is a fraud, and the FED and banksters are the biggest thieves in the history of the world. The BRICS are in position to replace the USD as the reserve (Yuan/Renminbi? SDR? It won't be the USD).

The only sound system is the gold standard. It's feared because it makes people [criminal governments and banks] play honestly. Ultimately, when the paper ponzi collapses, it won't be up to governments to decide. It's a confidence game, and once the rest of the world realizes they've been fleeced, nobody is going to want paper 'funny money.' :) Should be very interesting.
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It won't collapse. I can explain. Like I said, PM me if you want to have a civil conversation without name calling. Nobody else wants to read our side convo about economies on a knife forum.

My apologies to the OP
 
Ankerson said:
Like I said before market research along with human behavior research..... ;)

And you fit the mold perfectly by your responses, that is people that would buy knives in the Buck 110 range..... (Target Market)

Products aren't priced in different categories by accident, they are all aimed at certain types of buyers.
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Once again you didn't get it. I buy based on performance, not price. It just so happens 3 reapers will last as long as 2.5 Esee for less than half the cost. If you have a problem with the economics attached to knives then only you have a problem. It is a non use problem. You try to quantify your economics directly to knife performance. Doesn't work that way.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g6j5e-xGIqM

Since you like YouTube so much.
 
Duane Sanders said:
Once again you didn't get it. I buy based on performance, not price. It just so happens 3 reapers will last as long as 2.5 Esee for less than half the cost. If you have a problem with the economics attached to knives then only you have a problem. It is a non use problem. You try to quantify your economics directly to knife performance. Doesn't work that way.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g6j5e-xGIqM

Since you like YouTube so much.
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If you bought based only on performance alone you wouldn't be in this thread in the 1st place talking about how great 420HC is.
 
Ankerson said:
That's not what anyone is saying. ;)

They are in your price range so that's what you buy.

The real problem comes in when some want to try and make them sound like they are more than they really are.
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It sounds a lot like what people are saying actually. Bucks are in everyone's price range. I can get other brands if I choose. I can get pricier Bucks if I choose. What I said was I choose to carry 110s and 112s...

It's true, they are what they are. But some people, myself included, happen to like what they are. That does not mean that everything in my home comes from walmart. I see so many CRKs posted in these forums that look like it's the first time they've seen daylight. Does that mean someone else knows more about knives or uses them more efficiently than I do since they choose to pay $450 for a knife?

Ankerson, I'm not directing this at you, more to the thread in general so don't take offense to the rant...
 
Agreed, large companies don't cater to certain markets on accident. There primary goal is to make money, and as such they make a product within a price range for the consumer they are trying to reach.
Ankerson said:
Like I said before market research along with human behavior research..... ;)

And you fit the mold perfectly by your responses, that is people that would buy knives in the Buck 110 range..... (Target Market)

Products aren't priced in different categories by accident, they are all aimed at certain types of buyers.
Click to expand...
 
JD Bear said:
It sounds a lot like what people are saying actually. Bucks are in everyone's price range. I can get other brands if I choose. I can get pricier Bucks if I choose. What I said was I choose to carry 110s and 112s...

It's true, they are what they are. But some people, myself included, happen to like what they are. That does not mean that everything in my home comes from walmart. I see so many CRKs posted in these forums that look like it's the first time they've seen daylight. Does that mean someone else knows more about knives or uses them more efficiently than I do since they choose to pay $450 for a knife?

Ankerson, I'm not directing this at you, more to the thread in general so don't take offense to the rant...
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I think should buy what they like really. :)

Yeah there are quite a bit of collectors around, but just as many users that actually really do use their CRK's. :thumbup:

I know I have always used my CRK's and do use the one I currently have now. :)
 
shinyedges said:
Agreed, large companies don't cater to certain markets on accident. There primary goal is to make money, and as such they make a product within a price range for the consumer they are trying to reach.
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I know really.... LOL

It is really that simple once you weed though all of it.
 
Ankerson said:
There aren't any fad steels. ;)
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Hmm...another way of phrasing it would be "currently en-vogue". There are tons of knives out there that are done in steel that's an odd match for their supposed intended function because that steel happens to draw under-informed customers that simply equate the name with "it's awesome".
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Hmm...another way of phrasing it would be "currently en-vogue". There are tons of knives out there that are done in steel that's an odd match for their supposed intended function because that steel happens to draw under-informed customers that simply equate the name with "it's awesome".
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You mean those over built, over designed tanks that we all see so much of these days?
 
If you like the knife for what it is, that's great.

People who try and pretend the buck 110 for example, is something its not tend to either outright deny that modern folders are more durable and that modern steels can out perform lower alloyed steels or are completely ignorant of the advancement made in the last 10 years.

Just because your satisfied with your buck doesn't mean your knife is better than any other knife, and there is NOTHING WRONG with being content with low budget knives.

But there is improvements to be had in design and steels and some folks who NEVER USED modern folders with some of the advanced steels cast judgments with out ANY first hand experience.
JD Bear said:
It sounds a lot like what people are saying actually. Bucks are in everyone's price range. I can get other brands if I choose. I can get pricier Bucks if I choose. What I said was I choose to carry 110s and 112s...

It's true, they are what they are. But some people, myself included, happen to like what they are. That does not mean that everything in my home comes from walmart. I see so many CRKs posted in these forums that look like it's the first time they've seen daylight. Does that mean someone else knows more about knives or uses them more efficiently than I do since they choose to pay $450 for a knife?

Ankerson, I'm not directing this at you, more to the thread in general so don't take offense to the rant...
Click to expand...
 
Ankerson said:
I think should buy what they like really. :)

Yeah there are quite a bit of collectors around, but just as many users that actually really do use their CRK's. :thumbup:

I know I have always used my CRK's and do use the one I currently have now. :)
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I agree with all that. Especially people buying what they like. Everyone has different preferences. I just don't like when the posts start to venture to the finger pointing, elitist opinions. Once again, not saying this was how you came across, just in general.
 
It truly is simple, some folks can't grasp their favorite knife companies priority is MONEY. Not the absolute best knife with the best materials.
Ankerson said:
I know really.... LOL

It is really that simple once you weed though all of it.
Click to expand...
 
Ankerson said:
You mean those over built, over designed tanks that we all see so much of these days?
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Those would be one example of the "designed to sell" vs. "designed to perform" approach, yes. But, for instance, the Kershaw Outcast was produced in D2, and had that fact proudly engraved on the blade, despite the fact that it was intended as a large chopping knife and there were plenty of other steels that would have been more appropriate in that context. But at the time it was a steel that had a certain amount of buzz around it. These things move in cycles, of course. Just look at how 5160 is back on the radar despite having been out of fashion for a considerable time.
 
Some days I hate reading this forum, haha...

Nothing wrong with Buck knives as far as I'm concerned. I never cared a whole lot for the looks of them and the folders are built a little bit on the crude side. But I've owned a few and they have been perfectly suitable tools and I would say the quality has been very reasonable. Unfortunately I've just never been especially excited about them or else I'd probably have several. If you like what you see, I'd say snatch it up. Should be a very decent blade for you.
 
AusLoX said:
It won't collapse. I can explain. Like I said, PM me if you want to have a civil conversation without name calling. Nobody else wants to read our side convo about economies on a knife forum.

My apologies to the OP
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You're right. I might just take you up on that - I'd be interested in hearing your perspective. I wasn't calling you names, specifically. It's a reputation of those firms, along with the others. :)
 
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