• The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
    Price is $300 $250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
    Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.

  • Today marks the 24th anniversary of 9/11. I pray that this nation does not forget the loss of lives from this horrible event. Yesterday conservative commentator Charlie Kirk was murdered, and I worry about what is to come. Please love one another and your family in these trying times - Spark

Whelp. Time to order some more steel. So what's next?

Nathan the Machinist said:
I'm pretty late on the Shiv pre-order and I'm catching some flack for it. Well deserved flack. When I start these pre-orders I lack the crystal ball to know what other aspects of my business are going to interfere with production and I'm not willing to just do the pre-order at the expense of everything else, I need to have the whole shop flowing. The K20 swords (which are early) made the Shiv late. That is not the fault of the people who bought the Shiv, it's mine. But this is the reason why I don't think I want to do pre-orders anymore. It gives me a black eye and it screws up our flow here. Too many complainers. The worst thing about the complainers is that they're right. I hate that. I can sell everything that I make. The pre-orders are for the convenience of people that don't like the regular sales or who want something special. And I want to accommodate these people. But not at the cost of my reputation. Pre-orders are bad business.
Click to expand...
Nathan the Machinist said:
I think I lost at least one very good customer over the late shiv. I can't begin to apologize enough.
Click to expand...
With all due respect, you are being needlessly hard on yourself. The reason you're the only maker I trust to pay in full on preorders (there are a lot of folks making knives I trust to deliver - most of them know that for them payment up front would be a terrible idea, so they don't do it, but in your case, I truly do have full confidence in you as exhibited by the fact that I'm happy to pay in full every time) is because you have the best delivery timeline estimates of anyone in the business. No rose-colored glasses. Just honest and up front that it's going to be a wait, which is the tradeoff of getting a guaranteed knife or sword and getting it customized the way you like it vs. getting a Friday sale knife, where there is more competition, fewer knives, and fewer customization options. Nobody in knifemaking hits nearly as many deadlines as you do. "Two weeks" or "Knifemaker Time" is essentially a standing joke. One of my other favorite knifemakers, a man whom I greatly respect for his work ethic, has my book order out to deliver today... 37 months after I ordered it and nearly two years after the original estimate. He only took $100 to hold the book slot because he knew things like this could happen. It's just what happens in knifemaking.

As others have pointed out, there is a lot more support for the preorders than there is complaining about them. Half the preorder complaints are about them selling out faster than anticipated, but those same people would complain way more if they had to chase Friday sales to get anything at all. You can never make everyone happy when you make a popular product where demand exceeds supply. You can just do the best you can, and you and Jo are really swell as folks and as business owners.
 
Hmmm… since we appear to be trying to make Nate a billionaire by seeing how many of us can add our 2 cents; 😅

As already mentioned, you can’t really please everyone.

Also as mentioned, most of us getting in on the preorders, appreciate the opportunity to get a guaranteed spot vs repeatedly trying and failing at the ‘mad dash’.

The more reasonable folks understand that:
A) things happen
B) delays happen
C) unlike some companies, CPK has an EXCELLENT track record for delivering

And one last bit of food for thought:

The Shiv is a highly specialized design, with a very narrow purpose.

I’ve mentioned it before, but that narrow design purpose is the reason I never even considered trying to acquire an OG Shiv, when I first got into CPKs; it was the one CPK I really didn’t see myself ever using, i.e. it was solely in the realm of ‘collectibles’, to me, and I tend to prefer getting knives (or swords) that I might actually use, even if it’s for nothing more than sword forms etc.

As my array of CPKs continued growing, I eventually wound up deciding that since the OG Shiv was THE iconic CPK, to the point of being in the logo, that I should get one, just to round out the collection, even if it would never be used as intended, and got in on the 2.0 preorder.

Long way to say that for 99.99% of folks in the Shiv 2.0 preorder, these are literally purchased as nothing more than collectibles.

I don’t know who the member is, who’s being alluded to, and I don’t really care to figure it out, as I’ve never been particularly interested in drama. If that particular individual knew they were being deployed at XX/XX/XXXX date, and preordered a Shiv 2.0 for that specific purpose, I could understand their disappointment at a slight delay.

If they’d booked a pig hunt with a particular date, and had been counting on using the Shiv 2.0 as their pig sticker, I could understand their disappointment at a delay.

Here’s the thing, though;
For those of us, who actually USE our CPKs, one of the BIGGEST reasons we love our CPKs, is their performance, when used as intended.

Even if I decided that I was done collecting CPKs (or knives/swords in general), I wouldn’t divest myself of my CPKs unless I was done with using knives in general, because there simply isn’t anything else that performs at the same level (and at anywhere even close to the price points. Dr Dan uses the D3V protocol, too, and has various choppers and swords with proven performance, but their price points are significantly higher).

I might part with some of my collection, if I decided to just pare things down in general, but if someone was selling off their CPK collection, simply over dissatisfaction with the difficulty (or delays) in acquiring them, then they were never really knife users in the first place, and I find it difficult to comprehend being that upset over a few extra months, for something that’s intended to sit in a drawer, or on a shelf, when the company is well known for always delivering.
 
Last edited:
Nathan the Machinist said:
The customer did not freak out. He just requested a refund and then I've noticed him selling his collection.

I said they would ship by, I think October, then they started shipping this year. They probably won't be finished shipping until summer. He's entirely correct I am in the wrong here. There's really no debate.
Click to expand...
An alternate interpretation is that his interest has waned a bit and he sees the high premium your knives are bringing right now, so thinks the time is right to focus on something else. The lateness of the shiv may have been the stated reason, but I doubt it would be the only one.

I know my focus has shifted multiple times over the years.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
The customer did not freak out. He just requested a refund and then I've noticed him selling his collection.

I said they would ship by, I think October, then they started shipping this year. They probably won't be finished shipping until summer. He's entirely correct I am in the wrong here. There's really no debate.
Click to expand...
Sorry, poor choice of words.

Regarding pre-orders, I'm a fan, as they are pretty much the only way for me to get any without paying aftermarket prices. If the Friday sales were higher qty, like 25+, then I would have a decent shot, but when it's only 5-10 I have no chance.

That said, even if I could never get another one, I'm pretty happy with what I have, and would still hang out here for as long as you'll have me. The people transcend the knives.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
I think I lost at least one very good customer over the late shiv. I can't begin to apologize enough.
Click to expand...
You are always very clear in your disclaimers how these things will work. If people still participate in a pre-order, and then get pissy about it, then I’d say losing them is no great loss.

Conversely, there are a large number of people for whom pre-orders are the only practicable way to access your products at this point.



PS: And I’m not saying the customer did get pissy in this case. Just talking in generalities.
 
Last edited:
Nathan the Machinist said:
The customer did not freak out. He just requested a refund and then I've noticed him selling his collection.

I said they would ship by, I think October, then they started shipping this year. They probably won't be finished shipping until summer. He's entirely correct I am in the wrong here. There's really no debate.
Click to expand...
So…..can I take his spot? 🤣 seriously though
 
I'll start by saying ... I will respect whatever decision you make that is best for CPK and it's employess going forward. 👍

As a few others have mentioned, I think you're being too hard on yourself Nathan. You are the most straight forward with preorders of any knife maker I've dealth with. You're always upfront about possible timelines and updating customers during the process. And that sets CPK apart in the preorder realm in my humble opinion.

And although I believe you'll sell whatever you make through whatever sale method you choose ... just from seeing posts through the years and past conversations with other CPK faithful ... I truly think you'll lose far more "long time and repeat customers" if you do away with preorders.

In my case if it weren't for preorders back when I really got into CPKs, I would have given up trying after many failed attempts in Friday sales. I also really like the "extra options" you offer on preorders as I know many others do.

And for what it's worth ... and not that it was asked, but I would definitely appreciate preorders when it's possible. I will still support and try to buy whenever possible in whatever sale format you decide is best for the business.
 
Last edited:
I say put it to a vote and hear what your customers actually prefer or want. I think a minority can speak so loud it makes you think they are the majority.

I can honestly say if it weren’t for pre orders I wouldn’t be giving much money to CPK. Friday sales greatly favor those with a lot of free time and great internet connectivity. I have neither of those.

I might be off base but I also think Friday sales favor collectors over the ones who actually use your knives. If it’s Friday and I’m not working, I’m very likely playing in the mountains with one of your knives. Well away from people and internet connections.

#pleasekeeppreordersalive

Edit: clean up word choice
 
Last edited:
Sagandavis said:
I say put it to a vote and hear what your customers actually prefer or want. I think a whiny minority can speak so loud it makes you think they are the majority.
Click to expand...
I don't think that Nathan (or anyone else) characterized the person as whiny. Nor do I personally think it is a fair characterization. I don't say this to criticize you, I just don't think it is an accurate representation of the situation.

I may be incorrect. (Won't be the first or the last time.)
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
I'm pretty late on the Shiv pre-order and I'm catching some flack for it. Well deserved flack. When I start these pre-orders I lack the crystal ball to know what other aspects of my business are going to interfere with production and I'm not willing to just do the pre-order at the expense of everything else, I need to have the whole shop flowing. The K20 swords (which are early) made the Shiv late. That is not the fault of the people who bought the Shiv, it's mine. But this is the reason why I don't think I want to do pre-orders anymore. It gives me a black eye and it screws up our flow here. Too many complainers. The worst thing about the complainers is that they're right. I hate that. I can sell everything that I make. The pre-orders are for the convenience of people that don't like the regular sales or who want something special. And I want to accommodate these people. But not at the cost of my reputation. Pre-orders are bad business.
Click to expand...
No. It seems like you may lose more customers that are not able to compete in,and are frustrated with, the Friday type sales. It also opens it up for fast flippers to just get them for resale. This definitely is in no way a threat of losing me as a fan/customer. I don’t purchase nearly the amount of knives as most people on here. Obviously you don’t need my help with how you run your shop. It seems to be going pretty well. But that’s just my humble opinion. Plus, I like the options that are available with the preorders. Either way, I appreciate the way you all keep your house in order. There aren’t too many companies with the selling power that CPK has, where you can engage directly with the company in the way you can with CPK. I’d say your reputation is intact and the fact that you know and care that you lost one customer is a testament to the integrity of your business. All that being said, I understand that it would be way simpler to just make what you want when you want and sell it. And I would respect your choice.
 
Blues said:
I don't think that Nathan (or anyone else) characterized the person as whiny. Nor do I personally think it is a fair characterization. I don't say this to criticize you, I just don't think it is an accurate representation of the situation.

I may be incorrect. (Won't be the first or the last time.)
Click to expand...

You’re right, poor choice of words. I wasn’t necessarily saying that person is being whiny, just that it’s easy to hear one issue and it get inflated to feel like it’s bigger than it is.
 
Sagandavis said:
I say put it to a vote and hear what your customers actually prefer or want.
Click to expand...

Making a distinction in this regard is very important:

Running polls and taking votes on what patterns the customers (mob) demand can act as a great guide in decision making when ordering material and such but listening to the mob, eh customers, when it comes to making crucial business decisions, well, reminds me of an ole adage often used in the NFL circles: "A GM who listens to fans, ends up sitting with them!" 🤣
 
Personally, I'm ok with the preoders. I don't think I'll be able to snag a knife otherwise. I didn't participate in the K20 because I don't really have a use for it (other than a wall hanger) and I didn't want to have that much money tied up for up to two years. You made the terms clear in the post for the preorder.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top