Whelp. Time to order some more steel. So what's next?

Nathan the Machinist said:
I'm pretty late on the Shiv pre-order and I'm catching some flack for it. Well deserved flack. When I start these pre-orders I lack the crystal ball to know what other aspects of my business are going to interfere with production and I'm not willing to just do the pre-order at the expense of everything else, I need to have the whole shop flowing. The K20 swords (which are early) made the Shiv late. That is not the fault of the people who bought the Shiv, it's mine. But this is the reason why I don't think I want to do pre-orders anymore. It gives me a black eye and it screws up our flow here. Too many complainers. The worst thing about the complainers is that they're right. I hate that. I can sell everything that I make. The pre-orders are for the convenience of people that don't like the regular sales or who want something special. And I want to accommodate these people. But not at the cost of my reputation. Pre-orders are bad business.
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Since we're all adding our couple of pennies...

I have, in my opinion, a modest, yet outstanding assortment of your knives. They are the highlights of my collection and aside from a puukko here or there that I can't resist, your knives remove the need for me to go hunting for that next best thing. The design acumen, the performance, the world class materials - they all factor in my decision to remain a lifelong CPK customer.

Your past willingness to do pre-orders, alongside your transparency, has allowed me the luxury of obtaining your product. I don't comb over exchange listings, and the few times I utilized the WTB functions here, they have been met by some of the awesome folks here. I don't generally participate in Friday sales because I need far less FOMO in my life and I've been pretty successful at learning to be content with what I can acquire stress-free. I have refrained from participating in the K20 pre-order, not because of the timeline, but because it is an extravagance for me, and not a need. More so, with a senior getting ready to graduate and head off to college, it is also a deeply irresponsible purchase for me to make at this time.

Should you decide to stop pre-orders, please know that I, like others, will understand. You know your business better than any of us and I trust that you will make the choices that best suit your company's needs. I may get less knives from you as a result but I already have some of the best knives in the world and you guys made them. It's hard not to be happy about that.
 
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Nathan the Machinist said:
I'm pretty late on the Shiv pre-order and I'm catching some flack for it. Well deserved flack.
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Well, I, for one, am truly let down, as well, and you should be ashamed of yourself. I can’t for a moment comprehend why you couldn’t just do EVERYTHING on time. Always.

I feel as though my expectations haven’t been met, and I don’t even HAVE a shiv on preorder.

Your arrogance is exceeded only by your incompetence.

I plan on leaving a scathing review on Yelp.





Good day, sir.
 
Pàdruig said:
Since we're all adding our couple of pennies...

I have, in my opinion, a modest, yet outstanding assortment of your knives. They are the highlights of my collection and aside from a puukko here or there that I can't resist, your knives remove the need for me to go hunting for that next best thing. The design acumen, the performance, the world class materials - they all factor in my decision to remain a lifelong CPK customer.

Your past willingness to do pre-orders, alongside your transparency, has allowed me the luxury of obtaining your product. I don't comb over exchange listings, and the few times I utilized the WTB functions here, they have been met by some of the awesome folks here. I don't generally participate in Friday sales because I need far less FOMO in my life and I've been pretty successful at learning to be content with what I can acquire stress-free. I have refrained from participating in the K20 pre-order, not because of the timeline, but because it is an extravagance for me, and not a need. More so, with a senior getting ready to graduate and head off to college, it is also a deeply irresponsible purchase for me to make at this time.

Should you decide to stop pre-orders, please know that I, like others, will understand. You know your business better than any of us and I trust that you will make the choices that best suit your company's needs. I may get less knives from you as a result but I already have some of the best knives in the world and you guys made them. It's hard not to be happy about that.
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Not sure which is better, your way with words, or your pics!
 
I love the pre-orders and I love CPK’s! I respect your decision whatever it may be. The only reason I don’t order more of them is because I have a less money than I did before due to a newer vehicle purchase and some unknown expenses pop up constantly.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
The response here has been loud and clear and I think I understand now that the pre-orders are more important to folks than I realized. :thumbsup:
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I didnt get in on the pre-order for the last round of DEK's cause I thought there would be plenty made to pick one up on a friday sale. I still dont have a DEK1 in D3V. If there is ever a pre-order of something Im interested in I will certainly not make the same mistake.
 
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Matthew Gregory said:
Well, I, for one, am truly let down, as well, and you should be ashamed of yourself. I can’t for a moment comprehend why you couldn’t just do EVERYTHING on time. Always.

I feel as though my expectations haven’t been met, and I don’t even HAVE a shiv on preorder.

Your arrogance is exceeded only by your incompetence.

I plan on leaving a scathing review on Yelp.





Good day, sir.
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Post Covid Matt Gregory is a force to be reckoned with.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
I agree that magna cut would be very good for a kitchen knife. Looking for an advantage of D3V, the only one I can think of is that it is significantly more ductile at a good working hardness for the application and you would not expect to see chipping at a narrow angle and instead would have a slightly rolled edge that could be corrected by steeling whereas magna cut would require resharpening.

Although I don't recommend steeling 3v either.

If you look at that last video of Ben running that K20, the edge angle on that sword was 15° per side. That's where Ben runs his race knife on that course and that's where that sword was sharpened to. If you look at the minimal amount of damage it took in the impact on the cinder block at that narrow edge, magna Cut would have had a significant blowout. This is relevant because 15 DPS is a pretty good angle for a hard high-end kitchen knife.
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I need to preface it with a disclaimer that I am talking about highest performing kitchen knives that only a tiny portion of knife enthusiasts would care about. The race class chef knives.

Totally agree that D3V is more ductile and would roll and deform in some scenarios where MagnaCut would chip. For a sword or really any knife that sees significant impact (butchers, cleavers, ect)I can benefit from D3V, but we were specifically talking chef knives and there I couldn't see the benefit. In the kitchen most edge failures are due to rolling or deforming, then microchipping, then wear, in my experience of course. Rolling and deformations can be worse than micro chipping because they can be more difficult to correct, steeling can help some, but depends on the damage and the steel. Microchipped edge can still cut well most of the time and is not more difficult to fix than rolls. Because of this we want hard edges to prevent deformation that are tough enough not to chip, MagnaCut excels in that, Don't get me wrong D3V would make an excellent kitchen knife and if we would consider normies might be a better choice. Since we are talking about a tiny subset of knife enthusiasts, since normies and most knife enthusiasts would never spend enough for a D3V kitchen knife and wouldn't be able to keep it sharp, we have to consider that MagnaCut would be better for this tiny group. In reality there are other attributes to the best kitchen knives that trump the steel choice, so we are nitpicking, but if you are choosing which steel to use one seems to be better than the other for this specific application.
Nathan the Machinist said:
Abrasive wear resistance on a kitchen knife should be of minimal importance unless you're eating abrasive foods. Which you're probably not.

Edge retention would be of paramount concern, and sometimes a lower wear resistance steel can actually have better edge retention in some applications. This may or may not be one of them.
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Wear resistance not being very important for kitchen knives seems to make sense and what most believe and yet there is a clear difference between edge holding of low and high wear steels in the kitchen, when everything else is kept the same. There is enough evidence to suggest that wear resistance plays a role once you make sure that the other modes of failure are not happening. For example, cruwear class steels hold the edge longer than low carbide steels, 10V class longer yet in cases when chipping or deformation are not the cause of failure. It is most evident when cutting tomatoes and similar vegetables. It is not clear why wear resistance matters in the kitchen, some theories are that there is plenty of silica in food and in the board material and given the very sharp edges involved this silica causes wear. Since high performing kitchen knives have very sharp and acute edges the goal is to get to the point where failure mode is wear while still having the same geometry since this will provide the longest lasting edge and this is where steels that stay tough at high hardness can help.

I also agree that lower wear resistance steels can have better edge holding than high wear resistance steels. As long as your dulling is not primarily caused by wear increasing wear resistance won't help. I'd rather have a chef knife made out of low alloy steel that doesn't roll or chip but has low wear resistance than another that chips or rolls but has very high wear resistance assuming they do this with the same acute and thin geometry.
 
ace said:
Wear resistance not being very important for kitchen knives seems to make sense and what most believe and yet there is a clear difference between edge holding of low and high wear steels in the kitchen, when everything else is kept the same. There is enough evidence to suggest that wear resistance plays a role once you make sure that the other modes of failure are not happening. For example, cruwear class steels hold the edge longer than low carbide steels, 10V class longer yet in cases when chipping or deformation are not the cause of failure. It is most evident when cutting tomatoes and similar vegetables. It is not clear why wear resistance matters in the kitchen, some theories are that there is plenty of silica in food and in the board material and given the very sharp edges involved this silica causes wear. Since high performing kitchen knives have very sharp and acute edges the goal is to get to the point where failure mode is wear while still having the same geometry since this will provide the longest lasting edge and this is where steels that stay tough at high hardness can help.
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Board material!!! I don't get rolls or any sort of major chipping. I feel like the main mode of failure (if you could call it that) in my good kitchen knives is wear. Why? It's NOT the food, it's the cutting board!!! I use poly or wood 99% of the time.

Avoid Bamboo, it has TONS of silica content, and before I knew this, I couldn't figure out why my knives suddenly seemed like they were dulling so much faster. It was the big, new bamboo cutting board I had gotten! I was pretty surprised!
 
ace said:
I need to preface it with a disclaimer that I am talking about highest performing kitchen knives that only a tiny portion of knife enthusiasts would care about. The race class chef knives.

Totally agree that D3V is more ductile and would roll and deform in some scenarios where MagnaCut would chip. For a sword or really any knife that sees significant impact (butchers, cleavers, ect)I can benefit from D3V, but we were specifically talking chef knives and there I couldn't see the benefit. In the kitchen most edge failures are due to rolling or deforming, then microchipping, then wear, in my experience of course. Rolling and deformations can be worse than micro chipping because they can be more difficult to correct, steeling can help some, but depends on the damage and the steel. Microchipped edge can still cut well most of the time and is not more difficult to fix than rolls. Because of this we want hard edges to prevent deformation that are tough enough not to chip, MagnaCut excels in that, Don't get me wrong D3V would make an excellent kitchen knife and if we would consider normies might be a better choice. Since we are talking about a tiny subset of knife enthusiasts, since normies and most knife enthusiasts would never spend enough for a D3V kitchen knife and wouldn't be able to keep it sharp, we have to consider that MagnaCut would be better for this tiny group. In reality there are other attributes to the best kitchen knives that trump the steel choice, so we are nitpicking, but if you are choosing which steel to use one seems to be better than the other for this specific application.

Wear resistance not being very important for kitchen knives seems to make sense and what most believe and yet there is a clear difference between edge holding of low and high wear steels in the kitchen, when everything else is kept the same. There is enough evidence to suggest that wear resistance plays a role once you make sure that the other modes of failure are not happening. For example, cruwear class steels hold the edge longer than low carbide steels, 10V class longer yet in cases when chipping or deformation are not the cause of failure. It is most evident when cutting tomatoes and similar vegetables. It is not clear why wear resistance matters in the kitchen, some theories are that there is plenty of silica in food and in the board material and given the very sharp edges involved this silica causes wear. Since high performing kitchen knives have very sharp and acute edges the goal is to get to the point where failure mode is wear while still having the same geometry since this will provide the longest lasting edge and this is where steels that stay tough at high hardness can help.

I also agree that lower wear resistance steels can have better edge holding than high wear resistance steels. As long as your dulling is not primarily caused by wear increasing wear resistance won't help. I'd rather have a chef knife made out of low alloy steel that doesn't roll or chip but has low wear resistance than another that chips or rolls but has very high wear resistance assuming they do this with the same acute and thin geometry.
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^ this guy gets it. Excellent post.
 
rattler420 said:
I didnt get in on the pre-order for the last round of DEK's cause I thought there would be plenty made to pick one up on a friday sale. I still dont have a DEK1 in D3V. If there is ever a pre-order of something Im interested in I will certainly not make the same mistake.
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I'm sorry that you were not able to get the DEK that you wanted. It was my intent to make enough extra over the pre-order that there would be plenty. We will revisit that pattern again in the near future.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
I'm sorry that you were not able to get the DEK that you wanted. It was my intent to make enough extra over the pre-order that there would be plenty. We will revisit that pattern again in the near future.
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No need to be sorry. I had the opportunity to pre-order. I thank you for making it apparent that you care about your product and your customers.
 
Matthew Gregory said:
Well, I, for one, am truly let down, as well, and you should be ashamed of yourself. I can’t for a moment comprehend why you couldn’t just do EVERYTHING on time. Always.

I feel as though my expectations haven’t been met, and I don’t even HAVE a shiv on preorder.

Your arrogance is exceeded only by your incompetence.
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WpZItLn.jpeg
 
Please continue with your current business model. I like the Friday sales (been just good enough to score in a few) and the pre-orders. My only regret in the Shiv pre-order was getting mine today and it not being a delivery of two.

Back to this thread, I'd choose EDC in 3V, 4V and MC, Medium Chopper in 3V and a Skinner or Trailing Point Hunter in CW and 3V.

Thank you for what you are doing.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
I'm pretty late on the Shiv pre-order and I'm catching some flack for it. Well deserved flack. When I start these pre-orders I lack the crystal ball to know what other aspects of my business are going to interfere with production and I'm not willing to just do the pre-order at the expense of everything else, I need to have the whole shop flowing. The K20 swords (which are early) made the Shiv late. That is not the fault of the people who bought the Shiv, it's mine. But this is the reason why I don't think I want to do pre-orders anymore. It gives me a black eye and it screws up our flow here. Too many complainers. The worst thing about the complainers is that they're right. I hate that. I can sell everything that I make. The pre-orders are for the convenience of people that don't like the regular sales or who want something special. And I want to accommodate these people. But not at the cost of my reputation. Pre-orders are bad business.
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dont give up on preorders. I'll be in a position to take advantage of them again at some point.

When that happens I'll want something special for sure.
 
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