When it's not exactly Made in the USA - Hoback

[Blues]

I'm merely referring to the fact that one can discuss deception of the country of origin without getting caught up in the country of origin itself.
I would hope people would be as pissed off if these knives were marked "made in China" but were actually made in the USA.
Or "Made in the USA" but were in fact made in Germany.

I can see this thread getting wrapped around the axle regarding people's personal impressions of all knife-producing nations.
Case in point - it seems like a lot of folks couldn't tell that their sumo wasn't made in America just by personal assessment of the build quality.

You're pushing this discussion off into the weeds.

This thread is about the lack of honesty and transparency of a maker / importer...and not about a particular country of origin and the quality of knives produced there.

The country of origin is relevant because folks were rightly or wrongly under the impression that the knives they purchased were made in the USA. Why that particular is important to them is a personal matter. The fact that deception, (intentional or otherwise), was discovered, makes that issue relevant on a number of levels...from legal to ethical.

Let's not get further off course. We don't require any additional proselytizing on this matter. Future posts of that nature will be removed from the thread.

 

[EngrSorenson]

This thread is about the lack of honesty and transparency of a maker / importer...and not about a particular country of origin and the quality of knives produced there.

Seems like we're in violent agreement then.

 

[ferider]

I'm merely referring to the fact that one can discuss deception of the country of origin without getting caught up in the country of origin itself.
I would hope people would be as pissed off if these knives were marked "made in China" but were actually made in the USA.
Or "Made in the USA" but were in fact made in Germany.

First, I meant it the way Blues said it. Taiwan has highest manufacturing standards, and legally, with respect to IP, etc., everything is clean.

Second I disagree with your hypothesis.

1) Yes, Hoback lying about COO is a huge and the biggest deal in this thread.
2) But clandestine manufacturing in the PRC pushes some additional buttons, IMO. Higher ROI for Hoback due to lower labor costs (the lower, the more Hoback is ripping his customer off), total disregard for IP, etc. For example, how much of Brian Tighe's IP is used in the Sumo ?

Roland.

 

[Blues]

2) But clandestine manufacturing in the PRC pushes some additional buttons, IMO, at least for me. Higher ROI for Hoback due to lower labor costs, total disregard for IP, etc. For example, how much of Brian Tighe's IP is used in the Sumo ?

This is a topic for another thread. Not this one. Let's move on...

 

[353]

Am I the only one who thinks it's kind of strange that such a devote Christian designs knives that have a "I'm gonna kill you" look to them? I mean his knives don't seem to be designed for any kind of practical purpose other than harming someone or satisfying the fantasy of doing so.

Sure is a very high % of tanto blades, wich was originally designed to stab, penetrate and yes, kill.

I went to his site, not knowing who he was or what his knives looked like.

No offense to anyone here: His knives look like Crap!. I don't mean crap quality of materials, the overly complicated design does nothing for me. A lot of crap that has nothing to do with being a knife. On that basis alone, I'd never buy one.

Given his obvious lack of ethics means I damn sure won't ever buy one.

+1 would't piss on one if it was on fire, just based on how they look..

 

[DrFish]

Sure is a very high % of tanto blades, wich was originally designed to stab, penetrate and yes, kill.



+1 would't piss on one if it were on fire, just based on how they look..

As for how you can be super religious and make weapons for a living, I’m reminded of Tom Maringer. Custom knife/sword maker. Had a line of really cool concealment rigs for his “vorpal” line of knives designed so you could draw it directly out of the sheath and through your coat if need be.

He found out that one of his blades had been used in a murder and had a crisis of conscience. Stopped making knives completely, dropped off the face of the earth for a while, has resurfaced making high end collectible coins.

 

[Blues]

Gentlemen, people have been going to war and killing one another in the name of their gods for millennia. Can we not further divert this discussion into yet another off-topic branch?

Methinks that we are rapidly approaching the closing of this thread...

 

[Albin]

Please don't!

 

[Blues]

Please don't!

I'll do my best...but everyone's gotta pull together on this one or the boat won't go straight...

 

[Chris_Texas]

It is clear that Hoback deliberately misled his customers and distributors. This is self evident. His motivation is equally clear. Hoback knew that virtually no one would pay hand crafted in the USA prices for Chinese production knives. So instead of dramatically lowering his prices to match what he was actually selling, he decided that defrauding his customers was the "Christian" way to go.

And if he was willing to lie about where the knives were made, you have to ask what else he was willing to lie about. Steel for example. What steel is he REALLY using? And why would anyone believe his claims?

 

[AdamFuzzyballs]

It is clear that Hoback deliberately misled his customers and distributors. This is self evident. His motivation is equally clear. Hoback knew that virtually no one would pay hand crafted in the USA prices for Chinese production knives. So instead of dramatically lowering his prices to match what he was actually selling, he decided that defrauding his customers was the "Christian" way to go.

And if he was willing to lie about where the knives were made, you have to ask what else he was willing to lie about. Steel for example. What steel is he REALLY using? And why would anyone believe his claims?

Where was his explanation, posted in this thread somewhere or..? Thanks, trying to recap but this thread blew up way too fast to keep up

 

[Dadpool]

Where was his explanation, posted in this thread somewhere or..? Thanks, trying to recap but this thread blew up way too fast to keep up

Still available in a video on his Instagram page. It's not on the main page, but if you go to Videos you'll see it.

 

[Jdottinger]

Where was his explanation, posted in this thread somewhere or..? Thanks, trying to recap but this thread blew up way too fast to keep up

Page 9

 

[knife_fan]

Still available in a video on his Instagram page. It's not on the main page, but if you go to Videos you'll see it.

Funny how he removed every negative comment from the video, and then turned off commenting

 

[Dimashkieh]

When the same model is made, in different batches, both in China and the US, how can he justifies selling both for the same price? There is no way, even if we believe that the same exact materials and manufacturing processes were used in both countries, that the cost of the knives made here is the same as the ones made in China!

 

[RBB2]

When the same model is made, in different batches, both in China and the US, how can he justifies selling both for the same price? There is no way, even if we believe that the same exact materials and manufacturing processes were used in both countries, that the cost of the knives made here is the same as the ones made in China!

He can't. So he didn't even try. He did say sorry, though, that those darn dealers just wouldn't listen and change their COO on his knives.

 

[3D Anvil]

When the same model is made, in different batches, both in China and the US, how can he justifies selling both for the same price? There is no way, even if we believe that the same exact materials and manufacturing processes were used in both countries, that the cost of the knives made here is the same as the ones made in China!

Not saying it's valid, but from his comments it sounds like he justifies it by saying that, if the knives are of equal quality, they should fetch an equal price. Aren't there car manufacturers that assemble the same models in different countries and charge the same price, regardless of COO?

It would be an interesting experiment, wouldn't it? Make the same knife, identical in all respects, except charge $400 for the Chinese-made knife and $600 for the US-made knife. I wonder which would sell better?

 

[Dimashkieh]

Not saying it's valid, but from his comments it sounds like he justifies it by saying that, if the knives are of equal quality, they should fetch an equal price. Aren't there car manufacturers that assemble the same models in different countries and charge the same price, regardless of COO?

I see your point, but the car analogy is not valid. Cars are defacto assembled at a location from parts definitely made in several countries. Also, if a dealership/manufacturer in a certain country is selling the exact same model/year/options of a car assembles in two or several different countries, the pricing would have been averaged depending on the cost and percentage of products made in said countries. I doubt our Dishonest Jake here did any price averaging.

 

[Chris_Texas]

Not saying it's valid, but from his comments it sounds like he justifies it by saying that, if the knives are of equal quality, they should fetch an equal price. Aren't there car manufacturers that assemble the same models in different countries and charge the same price, regardless of COO?

It would be an interesting experiment, wouldn't it? Make the same knife, identical in all respects, except charge $400 for the Chinese-made knife and $600 for the US-made knife. I wonder which would sell better?

I understand that you are not defending him, but offering his justification. None the less....

People's expectations and biases might not always be rational, but they form the foundation of every purchase decision. With cars, for example, most people today understand that a typical car might well be made anywhere, and even if assembled in America it is tens of thousands of bits individually crafted across the globe, then shipped to America and pieced together. But that's only your typical car. Does that expectation and indifference extend to every vehicle?

Would the purchaser of a Ferrari accept the "location doesn't matter" excuse if he learned his supercar was assembled in Vietnam or perhaps India rather than a Ferrari plant in Italy? I suspect it might matter very much, just as it does here.

Going deeper, we cannot ignore the reasons WHY so many people will not deliberately do business with China, or purchase their products. Many people have strong moral convictions about this. And even if we ignore slavery and ra.pant human rights violations, we still have significant issues with quality. The people who contract bridges and skyscrapers out of pop metal and bubble wrap, who put melamine in baby formula to make it extra white, who ship toxic everything from dry wall to dog food, damn sure cant be trusted to care what steel goes into an pocket knife or how that steel is heat treated. Can China make good stuff? Perhaps. But they don't seem too concerned about it most of the time.

Anyway, I have rambled far enough, and everyone here already knows all this. And so does this Hoback guy. What he did to his customers is a disgrace.

 

[knerd]

What an emotional rollercoaster and dumpster fire this has all been. I read the thread up to this point (started skimming after ~ page 50).

Jake Hoback is a criminal. He's manipulative and dishonest. However, he is an excellent con man.

He built a brand by making a few customs that he claims were USA made. Pulled the bait and switch by selling Chinese made products alongside the (few) USA made ones. How did he pull this off? Well, he claims he tried to correct a dealer on an erroneous listing of his non-USA made knives. Failing to correct the issue he decides to run with it so he can get more money for his product. Now he can't stamp his knives w/ "USA" "Made in USA" or even a flag. So what's he do? Stamp it PS 23. What's this accomplish? It implies he's an honest, loyal, God fearing (American) man trying to sell the best product to support his family!

Now it's implied that these knives are made in the USA (lack of a "China" engraving) and people will shell over their hard earned cash to support his business. He keeps up this facade by going to knife shows and claiming he makes the knives without outwardly claiming they aren't ALL made in the US or that he outsources "materials." This here was what is called half truths and omitting the truth is the same as lying.

Mr. Hoback lacks integrity and is now playing cleanup. He's doing the blame game because of course there's a half truth in there (if we can believe his video "confession"). He contacted 1 (ONE) dealer to try and fix the problem. As Quiet has brought up, he's got (had) a few more than 1 dealer now. DLT has been selling his product for 5 years.

As for beating the dead horse of "who's at fault?" it doesn't matter at this point in the game. What matters is how it's getting resolved. Look how the (crooked) dealers have responded vs. the (god fearing) supplier. Jake Hoback needs to stop pointing the finger and take responsibility for this mess.

Also, 3D Anvil and King of the Cheese have made the cut. Welcome to the ignore list.

I never could justify the high prices of Hoback's knives and that was when I thought they were USA made. Good luck selling them now. I hope (to god) that the dealers ask for refunds and/or pursue legal action against him. Watch out for your cornhole. It's gonna be federal prison for ya buddy!