When it's not exactly Made in the USA - Hoback

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Quiet said:
No, no, it was all the mean ole dealers' fault for "misrepresenting" his knives, and sending him big checks from those sales. Definitely not any wrongdoing on his part. :rolleyes:
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And remember that the Chinese manufacturer just forgot to put the Made in China labels on every single shipment of every single model and then customs dropped the ball every single time and then Hoback was either so ignorant of the law that he didn't realize it was required or didn't notice the lack of Made in China labels every single time.
 
3D Anvil said:
Thanks for not bringing up that devastating, partial conversation with someone who wasn't a knife dealer at a blade show where we can't really tell what they're talking about again. 🤣
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Oh, you mean that part where someone specifically asks if his knives are made in the US and he says "Yep, everything's made here" that your poor, poor ears just couldn't hear (yet all of us could hear it clearly)? Poor dear. <3
 
Insipid Moniker said:
And remember that the Chinese manufacturer just forgot to put the Made in China labels on every single shipment of every single model and then customs dropped the ball every single time and then Hoback was either so ignorant of the law that he didn't realize it was required or didn't notice the lack of Made in China labels every single time.
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Actually, what happened is that the boxes containing Hoback's knives are all like the box containing the Ark of the Covenant from Raiders, where as soon as they get past US Customs', the "made in China" labels all just mysteriously melt right off. LOL
 
3D Anvil said:
yep.
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Thank you.

But your agreement above contradicts your point below.

3D Anvil said:
You're assuming that he did deliberately misrepresent his knives, which is not the case.
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Knowing it was an error and letting it go on because one is making money has now become a deliberate act, even if that act is inaction.
 
It's not sufficient to say "I didn't explicitly state the origin of my product, therefor it's partially your fault for making an assumption".
That's what weaselly people do.
As the person with sole knowledge of his product, he either states the correct information openly and publicly and removes all misconception or he doesn't.
 
TOMBSTONE said:
The burden of proof is much lower in a civil case with plantiffs just needing a little bit more than 50% chance of probability that it’s true.
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Honestly, I personally think that there's enough evidence, especially when you take all these items in aggregate, that it would be exceptionally difficult for China Jake to skate on this, if it were to ever come to that. And trust me, a Judge or abitrator would definitely look at all these things and start asking some really tough questions for which "B..bu..but, this is how I feed my family..." wouldn't be considered a valid answer.
 
TOMBSTONE said:
The burden of proof is much lower in a civil case with plantiffs just needing a little bit more than 50% chance of probability that it’s true.
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You still need to make the case that Hoback intentionally misled distributors. 50.1% doesn’t mean everyone walks in and flips a coin.
 
Inaction once he knew that his knives were being sold as made in America is an action. It does infact make him complicit. Whether he told dealers his knives were made in America is still unverified, what we do know is Jake hobacks character is questionable at best, due to his inaction of correcting the dealers who had his knives listed as USA made. So, it stands to reason, if we are to make an assumption of whether or not he told the dealers they were made in America, why would you give him the benefit of the doubt?

My opinion is there was deceit from the get go, judging off the willful inaction and subsequent response he has taken.
 
shinyedges said:
Inaction once he knew that his knives were being sold as made in America is an action. It does infact make him complicit. Whether he told dealers his knives were made in America is still unverified, what we do know is Jake hobacks character is questionable at best, due to his inaction of correcting the dealers who had his knives listed as USA made. So, it stands to reason, if we are to make an assumption of whether or not he told the dealers they were made in America, why would you give him the benefit of the doubt?

My opinion is there was deceit from the get go, judging off the willful inaction and subsequent response he has taken.
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Candidly speaking, I'm starting to wonder if we aren't speaking to Jake's legal advisor directly in this thread. All of the posts are starting to seem an awful lot like they're meant to be misdirection of attention away from Jake's obvious bad acting in this situation, foisting responsibility off on the dealers.

At the end of the day, one fact that looks pretty clear is: dealers weren't removing the legally required "Made in China" stickers from Jake's products made in China. That tells me that Jake was acting in his best interests when he or his employees were doing that before sending those products to his dealer network.
 
Quiet said:
Candidly speaking, I'm starting to wonder if we aren't speaking to Jake's legal advisor directly in this thread. All of the posts are starting to seem an awful lot like they're meant to be misdirection of attention away from Jake's obvious bad acting in this situation, foisting responsibility off on the dealers.

At the end of the day, one fact that looks pretty clear is: dealers weren't removing the legally required "Made in China" stickers from Jake's products made in China. That tells me that Jake was acting in his best interests when he or his employees were doing that before sending those products to his dealer network.
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That's a point that has merit, are we to assume the customs missed every shipment from China being labeled? For years? Come on.

Following that to it's logical conclusion means the stickers were removed here in the United States. Pardon me if I don't believe Scott at USA made blade removed the stickers.
 
3D Anvil said:
Not saying it's valid, but from his comments it sounds like he justifies it by saying that, if the knives are of equal quality, they should fetch an equal price. Aren't there car manufacturers that assemble the same models in different countries and charge the same price, regardless of COO?

It would be an interesting experiment, wouldn't it? Make the same knife, identical in all respects, except charge $400 for the Chinese-made knife and $600 for the US-made knife. I wonder which would sell better?
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But it does matter for many different products.

For example, with headphones, Sony would often make the first run of a premium model in house, in Japan. Later runs would eventually see sourcing from Vietnam or other electronics heavy production centers. People can and will pay a premium for the made in Japan version, because the quality is slightly better.

In this case, however, it might be the reverse as the Chinese are able to do more complex machining than he can do in house and they’re probably holding better tolerances.
 
craytab said:
He absolutely did. You can't just ignore evidence because it doesn't fit your argument.
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Yep. How else am I supposed to interpret:

Q: You make EVERTHING [emphasis added] here?

A: Yep,

Q: That's awesome dude.

A: Yeah Yeah. We've got a lot of uh we've got a lot of different manufacturing, umm [insert waffling here]

The question at the booth was: (after he was explaining how he doesn't like to do the same thing all the time design wise, so it's not about just one knife, nice try)
"You make EVERTHING here?"

The answer was a Yes. Then a qualified that it wasn't all IN HOUSE, but that still implies HERE, as in the United States, not the planet Earth.

It's a bald faced lie.
 
Quiet said:
Oh, you mean that part where someone specifically asks if his knives are made in the US and he says "Yep, everything's made here" that your poor, poor ears just couldn't hear (yet all of us could hear it clearly)? Poor dear. <3
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What he actually says is, "so all this is made here," indicating something ("this") that we can't see on camera.
 
Quiet said:
Honestly, I personally think that there's enough evidence, especially when you take all these items in aggregate, that it would be exceptionally difficult for China Jake to skate on this, if it were to ever come to that. And trust me, a Judge or abitrator would definitely look at all these things and start asking some really tough questions for which "B..bu..but, this is how I feed my family..." wouldn't be considered a valid answer.
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Paratrooper06 said:
You still need to make the case that Hoback intentionally misled distributors. 50.1% doesn’t mean everyone walks in and flips a coin.
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I’m not the pitch fork and torches kind of guy. However, based on the information so far, I’m not so sure it’s going to be so cut and dry for Mr. Hoback. I have to agree with Quiet but that’s just my opinion with no skin in the game.
Obviously, the forums isn’t a court of law but there will likely be business consequences due to this situation that will have long lasting effects irregardless of the outcome . There are people in the knife community who unknowingly overpaid for a chinese made product. Paid the same as one’s that are supposedly made in the USA, and maybe didn’t want to purchase a chinese made knife. How much culpability Mr. Hoback has in this situation I don’t know because I’m not in court and haven’t heard both sides complete arguments but he does have some culpability. Business ethics and trust have been compromised in the eyes of the knife community. In the end, if there is success in court for Mr. Hokack, it may not translate to a continued thriving business. As I’ve said before, I just hope those who have been affected and believe they were wronged, are financially made whole.
 
3D Anvil said:
What he actually says is, "so all this is made here," indicating something ("this") that we can't see on camera.
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Out of curiosity, what would it take for you to not give hoback the benefit of the doubt?

What do you have to say about the made in China stickers missing for every knife? Did customs miss it for years?
 
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