When will folks let it go - Microtech

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Emotions definitely run strong when money is involved. It was wrong to produce and sell a knife so similar to the 0777, but I feel like the way KAI handled it was what caused part of the trouble.

Maybe I missed some part of the story, but if someone stole my design I'd tactfully take them to court without making a bunch of public comments or threats and get business taken care of. Maybe there was more to it, there are a lot of things that happen behind closed doors.

I don't have either knife, I don't have a dog in the fight. All I will say is to be sure of what you stand for, as a lot of times it is wrongs from both sides that keep escalating. This is where we have to turn the other cheek and make it a point to stop the madness rather than try to prove who is right or wrong. Looks like enough neutral parties have taken sides and have been wounded by this, I wouldn't want to get caught in the crossfire or be responsible for making things worse.

It's ok to have an opinion, just don't use it as a club.
 
MarkN86 said:
It was wrong to produce and sell a knife so similar to the 0777, but I feel like the way KAI handled it was what caused part of the trouble.

Maybe I missed some part of the story, but if someone stole my design I'd tactfully take them to court without making a bunch of public comments or threats and get business taken care of.
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What do
you think was handled wrong by KAI that caused the trouble?
 
tokerblue said:
So according to your logic, if Apple told Samsung that they could make an exact copy of the Galaxy and do it better, then Samsung is allowed to creat an exact duplicate of the iPhone? Feel free to correct this analogy if you don't think it's correct.
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False analogy. It would be more like Apple coming up to Samsung and saying "we can make a better smartphone than yours" and then not even doing it.

Kai's otf was not a direct ripoff of the Microtech design. It was the fact it was an OTF that bothered Marfione.
 
Yo Mama said:
Here's my take on it, bully (KAI threatening they will copy Marfione's designs) picks on a kid, and picks and picks and picks. The kid turns around (Marfione) and belts one to the nose by following through. I'm not feeling to bad for the bully at that point.
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You're a defense attorney's wet dream.
 
Lapedog said:
False analogy. It would be more like Apple coming up to Samsung and saying "we can make a better smartphone than yours" and then not even doing it.

Kai's otf was not a direct ripoff of the Microtech design. It was the fact it was an OTF that bothered Marfione.
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That's a better analogy.
 
If things went exactly how we are being told they went, KAI saying something to Marfione, whatever that was. Does that excuse T Marfione's response.....stealing a design???
Seems a bit out of kilter to me.
If you tell me my mother wears army boots, it's ok for me to stab you?
Trying to say Microtech's response was WAAAAY out of proportion to an insult.
Joe
 
After rereading through this thread, I'll conclude my part.

I don't claim I know everything that transpired in 2011 and beyond. But I was there at Blade and the pic of the ST DA OTF in Dave R's hand is my pic.
I took the pic with my camera and discussed the knife for a short while with the folks present.

It was stressed to me then and there by said folks that the knife in hand was "identical inside" and that "the parts would be interchangeable" with the Scarab. It was also inferred (my take anyway) that the parts at least would be available to Scarab owners to repair/mod their knife w/o having to go through MT. They seemed to relish witnessing Tony M's reaction when he would soon see and hear it there. The party left to do just that and I didn't follow, having other things to do.
Just the facts as I remember them. Nothing more...

After 6 pages of diatribe, it should be obvious to the many folks responding here that there's not a chance in hell of any agreement or resolution.
Everyone is set in their ways/beliefs and have dug in. I personally can't see anything of worth to come from further discussions, especially when it starts to get personal.

Have at it folks if you care to, but I'm done. No defending or indicting from me as I don't have all the facts. Not sure anyone does for that matter. As Spark says, "Hatas gonna Hate." That sure won't change in this thread...
 
tokerblue said:
What do
you think was handled wrong by KAI that caused the trouble?
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Again, I don't know every bit of what went on or the time frame of events, but if KAI really said they would start making better OTFs than MT it's like putting a chip on their shoulder. Coming out with the Kershaw Natrix and writing about taking back their design on their site is borderline taunting, trying to start trouble. They've been doing various little things that stir the water that do nothing to let the mud settle.

Not to say KAI is wrong for coming up with the original design and wanting to enforce the patent, but it's good to be a peacemaker when wronged. There nothing wrong with standing up for yourself but I don't know that I would have done it the same way. It's fine for us to say the Matrix is a copy, it clearly is, but KAI needs to be careful with accusations and taunts so it doesn't hurt their case.

That being said, I think Marfione is a little sue-happy. It may come back to bite him. I don't know that he will be successful against KAI.

Discussion is important but be level headed in all judgements.
 
MarkN86 said:
Again, I don't know every bit of what went on or the time frame of events, but if KAI really said they would start making better OTFs than MT it's like putting a chip on their shoulder. Coming out with the Kershaw Natrix and writing about taking back their design on their site is borderline taunting, trying to start trouble. They've been doing various little things that stir the water that do nothing to let the mud settle.
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it doesn't matter how many variations of the Natrix KAI makes. It's their design and their knife. Coming out with the Natrix years after Microtech ripped off the ZT0777 doesn't change the fact that Microtech stole a design.
 
Yo Mama said:
So no one is able to make a knife with a lever lock? I'm confused, and those two knives while similar are quite different.

Other manufacturers that use lever locks on an automatic include: AKC and Boker, and about 19 different other Russian and Italian companies make an automatic with lever locks, so again............why everyone then lumps Microtech into "copying" Mikov designs is beyond me. They made a knife with a lever lock, wow.
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You're trolling right?

Even Mikov admits that they feel robbed by Marfione.
 
Danke42 said:
Your fallacy seems to be using Marifone's statement about what KAI did as a mater of fact.

You've built your house on a foundation of salt and lies.

So there is no doubt something was said. What was said is a mater of debate. Your "witness" has unfortunately zero traction so that's why you seem to be facing an un-climbable wall of skepticism.
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I already said all any of us have is what Marfione said, but that's only because KAI has not represented their side, which bothers me. If they have a different version of what happened, why not publicize it? I'm open to hearing what happened on their end, but all I've experienced with KAI is poor communication here on the forum already planting an "un-climbable wall of skepticism" from my point of view on KAI. They are already being sued, so what would it matter?
 
Yo Mama said:
I already said all any of us have is what Marfione said, but that's only because KAI has not represented their side, which bothers me. If they have a different version of what happened, why not publicize it? I'm open to hearing what happened on their end, but all I've experienced with KAI is poor communication here on the forum already planting an "un-climbable wall of skepticism" from my point of view on KAI. They are already being sued, so what would it matter?
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You have really got to be joking on that one. You're suggesting that if someone is the defendant in an active lawsuit they should go on the net and start ranting?

Rule #1 if it's before the court; keep your mouth shut and let the court decide. If you win be magnanimous in victory and let that stand as your statement; if you loose appeal and continue to refrain from comment. At no point in time are you obligated to start trying your case in the court of public opinion.

It's fine for you not like KAI based on whatever experience you've had but state that we as the public are owed an insiders view of the proceedings is spurious.
 
I didn't realize that Kai was actually telling Marfione that their OTF was using the same internals as his own to the point of the parts being interchangeable. That isn't right. At least they had the good sense to not release the knife though. However I think alot of OTFs use essentially the same internals. I am not sure if that means you could take the internals out of your lightning and drop them into a scarab for instance.

Most the OTFs seem to have very similar insides.

Either way that doesn't make it ok what happened with the Matrix and the 0777. To me that is the equivalent of taking it from words to fists. The Natrix was only the punch in return.

That is just my thoughts though.
 
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I don't own any KAI or MT knives. I don't have any sense of loyalty or fondness for either companies. I have been following this drama out of curiosity.

My take is that KAI comes off pretty badly. The Natrix blurb was pretty childish and petty. I do believe that they took some kind of shot at Marfione at Blade with their OTF prototypes.

On the other hand, Marfione comes off much worse. He openly admits that he stole KAI's design because he was butthurt. MT's comments on social media are some of the worst PR I've ever witnessed out of any company in any industry. The lawsuits are the icing on the cake which cement, in my mind, that Marfione cares nothing about the image of his company. Once a company is willing to sink their own ship in order to spite their enemies I stay as far away as possible. I'm of the opinion that Marfione is going to get his wish and KAI's going to be hurt and MT will be all but nonexistent when this is all over.

At the end of the day I don't approve of KAI's actions, but they wouldn't stop me from buying one of their products if I had a desire to. Marfione's actions will make me stay far away from anything he has his fingers in. In fact, I can't think of another American knife company that I have a lower opinion of than MicroTech. These are just my opinions as an outsider looking in. The OP has expressed a desire to hear people discuss KAI's fault in all of this, so I figured my opinion might be of interest.
 
tokerblue said:
it doesn't matter how many variations of the Natrix KAI makes. It's their design and their knife. Coming out with the Natrix years after Microtech ripped off the ZT0777 doesn't change the fact that Microtech stole a design.
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I think you misunderstood me. I'm glad that KAI came out with the Natrix, it makes the 0777 more accessible. I'm not defending Microtech and saying that they didn't steal the design. It's just that I feel like the jabs back and forth are not helping anything.

I have a feeling this thread isn't going in a positive direction so I will refrain from further posts.
 
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