Where Spydercos Fall Short

Indoril said:
I realize that they are all very good and popular knives. Never tried to claim otherwise. Hell, I have a Delica myself. But does that mean the Delica or X design by Spyderco is perfect? Can they not be improved on?
Of course they make damn good blades, but believe they can do even better and I hope they do in the future.
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I think I see where the "philosophies" clash and there is no wrong point of view.

Use the Delica as an example, take into account that by design it is intended to be under 3 inches... Then take into account Sal's "philosophy" of excellent hand ergonomics regardless of bladelength.... There, it's easier to understand why the Delica's ratio can be so different compared to say, a Benchmade 707 which is also just under 3 inches but only has enough room for a three finger grip. Taking it further, the Delica is designed for full one hand operation and as a backlock, the choil is designed to be the safety catch.

Spyderco has responded to suggestions by coming out with models over the years that may suit your fancy better...Like the Mantra maybe, but my guess is that Sal's gonna stick to his guns that has made him successful.

As an EDC, a lot of these Spydercos work much better for me than prettier, heavier, longer knives that sacrifice usability for flash and form. Just imo. Cut something, slice something the ratio is just fine.
 
If blade to OAL ratio is so important, why not get a traditional trapper? The Case full size trapper has TWO 3.25" blades and is 4.125" closed. 6.5/7.375 is a ratio of 0.881!!!!!! It's TWICE what the Chill has. :eek::eek::eek: Plus it weighs ~113.398 grams (varies depending on scales). 165.1 mm/113.398 g = 1.456 mm/g!!!! That's higher than any knife on the list except the SOG. :eek::eek::eek: And they cost so little for packing 6.5" of blade, around $40 for the yellow one. That's 0.1625" of blade per $. :eek::eek::eek:
 
Stays Sharp said:
Which knife has been a bestseller since 1992?
Which knife probably won't even be remembered to have ever existed in a few years?
Why do people keep buying that damn Delica?
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I see nobody wants to stay on point and just want to argue something else. Did I not already say that there is nothing wrong with Spyderco knives? I have four. That means something. I guess the Buck 110 is better than anything because it has been for sale longer. Why do people keep buying that damn Buck 110?

I provided images of two knives to illustrate a point for the OP. People have different priorities, but many people seem to think that their priority means they should ridicule the OP. Why? Never mind I remember where I am now......
 
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The knife I've been carrying lately has 4.25 inches of blade, 5.25 inches of handle, and weighs 10.2 ounces.
I don't give a flying crap about handle to blade ratios, weight to blade ratios, or any other pseudo-scientific sounding claptrap.
If I like a knife, I like it, and that is that.
There is no need to try rationalizing it, or why it's better or worse than someone else's choice.

Stop overthinking things. ;)
 
Aldebaran said:
I see nobody wants to stay on point and just want to argue something else. Did I not already say that there is nothing wrong with Spyderco knives? I have four. That means something. I guess the Buck 110 is better than anything because it has been for sale longer. Why do people keep buying that damn Buck 110?

I provided images of two knives to illustrate a point for the OP. People have different priorities, but many people seem to think that their priority means they should ridicule the OP. Why? Never mind I remember where I am now......
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The point has already been pointed out in the OP :)

Presenting graphs and case evidence isn't needed to prove anything here, you didn't provide anything ground breaking that knife forum members do not know... What's left is discussion. Who is arguing?

Next time, be more aware of where you are ;)
 
"Oh look I have a game-breaking picture to prove once and for all that Spydercos have negative blade to handle ratios. I'll list rhetorical questions with obvious answers to show them I'm right"

LOL

Spydercos and ratios aren't exactly state secret around here. Either you like them or you dont. They seem to sell really well so enough people like them it seems.
 
Aldebaran said:
OK, which of these two knives is going to do more cutting? Ignore the differences in steel type.
Which of these two knives is going to cut bigger things?
Which of these two knives has the index finger closer to the cutting edge for more control?
Which uses less room in the pocket?
DelicavsCH3001.jpg
DelicavsCH3001closed.jpg
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The brown one looks like it gets carried more than the lavender one. Maybe because the lavender one has that huge flat spot on the edge?
 
ThePeacent said:
well, Spyderco and Cold Steel are my favorite brands and I couldn't really care less for the numbers and ratios as long as they work as nice as they often do.
I mean today I'm carrying this one which would sure be poor in the edge/handle department but it's so nice ergonomically and allows me to put o much pressure and grips to use that recurve that it is an excellent working, EDC and "in hand" knife

QRxCtU8.jpg


I understand the metrics and numbers but I'm sure they're in no way representative of the quality, performance or "getting it right or wrong" of the folder in question
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Were all those in just one pocket?
 
Below is part of a randomly selected review of a knife with a close blade to handle ratio , there are many like it out there. V V V

As others have mentioned there's this problem of the blade tip being so close to the top surface of the liners that just a little pressure of either your thumb or finger applied in that area as you (usually) remove the knife from your pocket can produce a cut equal to the depth of your skin that falls into that gap between the liners. So as much as I dislike doing it, one star has to drop.
 
Kreyzhorse said:
I when through a period where I was carrying larger blades, but for general usage I found that 2" will generally be more than enough for most EDC tasks.
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I agree. I haven't carried an EDC with a blade over 2.6" in many years. 2-2½" of cutting edge handles almost anything I need.
 
Aldebaran said:
I provided images of two knives to illustrate a point for the OP. People have different priorities, but many people seem to think that their priority means they should ridicule the OP. Why? Never mind I remember where I am now......
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I think people are just pointing out (in different ways) how the OP preferences are not actually Spyderco's shortcomings.
 
I can't remember when I used the whole edge of any knife. Part of the edge gets used a lot.
This thread is an academic study of little practical consequence. To get attention uses a title that on the derogatory side. Never mind, just a new angle for discussion, not sure what the point is???

Fit, Feel, and Function: Spyderco deliver depending on what model works for you.
 
marcinek said:
But maybe we have "lost" the OP's original objection. I'll have top go reread it.
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This tends to happen when we get 8-ish pages away from the opening topic. I went back and re-read it myself... I'm all re-centered now.

Indoril wondered if Spyderco would evolve their design language and try something new, as in addressing the fact that the cutting edge to handle ratio of popular Spyderco offerings tends to favor more handle than cutting edge. Stated that he'd like to see a model that favored the cutting edge side a bit more... Even issued a challenge to Spyderco to hit his criteria.

Apparently, this criteria isn't a big consideration when people are standing at the knife counter, as folk seem to purchase as much as Sal can shove out the door. And that's okay. So I doubt that the gauntlet will be picked up anytime soon, and that's okay too.

I myself enjoyed this discussion. Made me take a different perspective and look at the knives I own in a different light for a moment... not that I'm going to toss any of them or alter my knife selection process in the future... but I like things that make me go "Hmmmm..."
 
For knives that I carry, I do want efficiency of overall size, and weight vs blade length. However, the handle has to be useable, and comfortable for me. I take each knife, on a case by case basis for their intended use. I own some Spydercos, so can usually live with, and like their configuration.
 
danbot said:
I think people are just pointing out (in different ways) how the OP preferences are not actually Spyderco's shortcomings.
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No doubt "shortcomings" was a poor choice. Clearly Spyderco's designs don't meet with his preferences, and there is nothing wrong with that. Hey, they very often don't meet with my design preferences either, to be honest.

But that doesn't make them lesser knives. They are very well designed...just not in the way I happen to like.
 
marcinek said:
No doubt "shortcomings" was a poor choice. Clearly Spyderco's designs don't meet with his preferences, and there is nothing wrong with that. Hey, they very often don't meet with my design preferences either, to be honest.

But that doesn't make them lesser knives. They are very well designed...just not in the way I happen to like.
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Agreed.

I was never too fond of the Spyder hole myself and I never bought one until recently. I picked up a PM2 and now that I've had it for awhile I can see why its so popular. Great ergos, very nice finish, very sharp right out of the box and four different clip position options. But blade to handle ratio was never a factor for me.

I also don't think the OP was trying to take a dump on Spyderco, but I can see how some could think so.
 
danbot said:
Agreed.

I was never too fond of the Spyder hole myself and I never bought one until recently. I picked up a PM2 and now that I've had it for awhile I can see why its so popular. Great ergos, very nice finish, very sharp right out of the box and four different clip position options. But blade to handle ratio was never a factor for me.

I also don't think the OP was trying to take a dump on Spyderco, but I can see how some could think so.
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Clearly they are very-well liked designs, I just am not nuts about some of their specific design elements...anal retentive thing. But I'm sure other, equally, if not more knowledgeable knife fans love those exact same elements. De gustibus.

I think that why some folks "thought so" is that the OP resorting to math and tables and graphs and stuff. Doing that implies you have quantitative proof of something. It was like "here's the science behind of why Spydeco fall's short."

Where if he just said, "Spydercos don't work for me because I want a longer blade for a given handle length...anybody agree/disagree with that opinion?" then none of the shpilkes woulda happened.

Mixing "qualitative" and "quantitative" always seems to do that.

And I have a graph to prove it.
 
I wonder if that edge length calculation included or excluded the area taken up by the thumb studs?

They take a big chunk of usable real estate away from the real world cutting stroke.
 
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