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Euro axes......
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Which Axe for "my" needs?
- Thread starter SR69
- Start date
No. Wetterling axes, this is not the first time someone had a problem with one of those.
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It could be that the wood has warped or twisted since it left the factory conditions, an indication at most of poor quality wood. Add to that your own conclusions, up to and including that all axes of European origins are substandard.
E.DB.
E.DB.
Thank you gents.
Looks like it's going to have to be the Gränsfors Bruks Scandinavian Forest Axe for me.
Such a shame though. I really liked the shape of the Wetterlings and find that it'd be
great for bushcrafting tasks. Oh well...I might as well go for a GB and be done with it.
It was my first choice anyways, so maybe my intuition was right in the first place.
Thanks a lot for all your responses (again, I read them all several times each)
and I'll report my findings with the GB when it gets here next week.
Edit:
In the interest of fairness, I will give Wetterlings a chance to come up with a good
example of this model. I know I'd be happy with it if I could get one in perfect shape.
It offers a lot of features I don't see on the other axes I'm considering and they are
known for good customer service so let's see what happens. Having been in business
myself, I know that not everything comes out as planned and the quality in a company
isn't only in what they make, but rather how they react when there are issues.
Looks like it's going to have to be the Gränsfors Bruks Scandinavian Forest Axe for me.
Such a shame though. I really liked the shape of the Wetterlings and find that it'd be
great for bushcrafting tasks. Oh well...I might as well go for a GB and be done with it.
It was my first choice anyways, so maybe my intuition was right in the first place.
Thanks a lot for all your responses (again, I read them all several times each)
and I'll report my findings with the GB when it gets here next week.
Edit:
In the interest of fairness, I will give Wetterlings a chance to come up with a good
example of this model. I know I'd be happy with it if I could get one in perfect shape.
It offers a lot of features I don't see on the other axes I'm considering and they are
known for good customer service so let's see what happens. Having been in business
myself, I know that not everything comes out as planned and the quality in a company
isn't only in what they make, but rather how they react when there are issues.
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Totally agree. No excuses.
Yeah, I'm with Pegs!
I'm normally not all that picky, but that's just plain unacceptable
Me neither. I can overlook the superficial imperfections,
but something as simple function failure is unforgivable.
Looking at a Council for a 2nd axe right now actually.
I've read that too KK. Again, they seem to have a "hit & miss" quality issue.
For me, if they can make 1 great axe, why can't they make them all great?
I thought about that, but (and maybe I didn't do enough of a good job it in the pictures to show this) the handle itself is straight.
I checked that off of my level. If you look closely at the head itself, it's "racked" in construction and even the edge is kiltered off
to one side. The handle (which is American made) was actually spot on. Matter of fact, it really brought out the manufacturing
flaws of the head. If you held the head level, the handle was off to one side severely. If you held the handle plum, you could
see how the head was racked to one side severely. Ergo, it was definitely a production failure which I don't mind. Not everything
comes out perfect and even getting something into near perfection is extremely difficult to do, but this should've never have left
the factory IMO.
Once again, thank you guys for all your opinions.
:thumbup:
While pondering purchasing another Swedish axe purchase and doing some more online reading and research,
I came across a Council Tool Boy's Axe US Forest Service Edition and at $29., I just had to snatch it up.
First, since they are supposedly now discontinued and going for $40. everywhere else, it was a no-brainer.
It'll buy me some time until I can find another axe for bushcrafting work. Opinions on it?
http://rockymountainbushcraft.blogspot.com/2012/11/quick-review-council-tool-boys-axe-us.html
http://outdoorenvy.blogspot.com/2013/03/comparison-council-tool-fss-boys-axe.html
I came across a Council Tool Boy's Axe US Forest Service Edition and at $29., I just had to snatch it up.
First, since they are supposedly now discontinued and going for $40. everywhere else, it was a no-brainer.
It'll buy me some time until I can find another axe for bushcrafting work. Opinions on it?
http://rockymountainbushcraft.blogspot.com/2012/11/quick-review-council-tool-boys-axe-us.html
http://outdoorenvy.blogspot.com/2013/03/comparison-council-tool-fss-boys-axe.html
While pondering purchasing another Swedish axe purchase and doing some more online reading and research,
I came across a Council Tool Boy's Axe US Forest Service Edition and at $29., I just had to snatch it up.
First, since they are supposedly now discontinued and going for $40. everywhere else, it was a no-brainer.
It'll buy me some time until I can find another axe for bushcrafting work. Opinions on it?
http://rockymountainbushcraft.blogspot.com/2012/11/quick-review-council-tool-boys-axe-us.html
http://outdoorenvy.blogspot.com/2013/03/comparison-council-tool-fss-boys-axe.html
Yes, If those are your choices it should be a no-brainer. I know it would be for me, at least.
Update:
For anyone who's interested, I decided to reach out to Wetterlings directly.
I've heard great things about their customer service and before I give up on them I
want to be fair about the situation and give them an opportunity to make things right.
I'm sure that they wouldn't want "this" to be representative of their products and believe
that they surely wouldn't sell this particular example directly. So, I'll see what they say to me.
I guess I'll hear from them sometime tomorrow. I made a pretty simple request. I just want a
good example of this particular model, that's all. Something with a well manufactured head and
a straightly-applied handle the way even a $30. axe comes with. I don't see anything else right
now to replace this Wett and I haven't seen one bad or poor review on it even after extensive
use, so I must have a rotten apple. It feels sooo good in my hands and again, I'm sure that if I
can have one in good condition, I'd use the Hades out of it. I really really want this particular axe.
So, I'll cross my fingers and hope for the best.
[For the record, I'm not doing this to slam any manufacturer or seller. I'm just doing this to give
feedback on my experience so that others could avoid what I'm going through. Consider it a PSA.]
For anyone who's interested, I decided to reach out to Wetterlings directly.
I've heard great things about their customer service and before I give up on them I
want to be fair about the situation and give them an opportunity to make things right.
I'm sure that they wouldn't want "this" to be representative of their products and believe
that they surely wouldn't sell this particular example directly. So, I'll see what they say to me.
I guess I'll hear from them sometime tomorrow. I made a pretty simple request. I just want a
good example of this particular model, that's all. Something with a well manufactured head and
a straightly-applied handle the way even a $30. axe comes with. I don't see anything else right
now to replace this Wett and I haven't seen one bad or poor review on it even after extensive
use, so I must have a rotten apple. It feels sooo good in my hands and again, I'm sure that if I
can have one in good condition, I'd use the Hades out of it. I really really want this particular axe.
So, I'll cross my fingers and hope for the best.
[For the record, I'm not doing this to slam any manufacturer or seller. I'm just doing this to give
feedback on my experience so that others could avoid what I'm going through. Consider it a PSA.]
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Given your situation, you probably should have just contacted the reseller. It's the same situation as with a grocery store or any other business setup - if you get a defective product, you bring it back to the point of sale (the reseller) and it's on them to deal with the manufacturer after you've gotten your refund or replacement.
Honestly though, for someone who's well informed on axes and with specific requirements (bit/handle alignment, grain orientation, etc) it probably would have been in your best interest to purchase from a reseller willing to hand-pick one for you (as I suggested a few posts back). Every manufacturer in existence lets a few duds slip through their QA and in this case, you ended up with one... but it's a problem that's fairly easily avoidable if you treat online sales as if you were making the purchase in person. If there are a ton of variables in a product you're about to purchase, just assume you'll get the worst and act before it gets shipped (GET ONE HAND PICKED
).
Treat it as a learning experience and I'm sure you'll be happy with your replacement - wetterlings, along with the other swedish axe manufacturers, produce solid axes (there just happens to be a tradeoff between high centerline and flat faced design. One isn't necessarily better than the other)
Honestly though, for someone who's well informed on axes and with specific requirements (bit/handle alignment, grain orientation, etc) it probably would have been in your best interest to purchase from a reseller willing to hand-pick one for you (as I suggested a few posts back). Every manufacturer in existence lets a few duds slip through their QA and in this case, you ended up with one... but it's a problem that's fairly easily avoidable if you treat online sales as if you were making the purchase in person. If there are a ton of variables in a product you're about to purchase, just assume you'll get the worst and act before it gets shipped (GET ONE HAND PICKED
). Treat it as a learning experience and I'm sure you'll be happy with your replacement - wetterlings, along with the other swedish axe manufacturers, produce solid axes (there just happens to be a tradeoff between high centerline and flat faced design. One isn't necessarily better than the other)
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killa, IMO you should edit your post again. Opinions regarding axes are being discussed here, not opinions about members.
SR69, I'm sure you will have better luck getting that replaced through the retailer as suggested. That thing looks terrible. Sorry you got such a lemon. If I was going down that road, I wouldn't bother with the Wett and just get the GB Scandi Forest axe. It seems that Wett's QC issues are not isolated to handle misalignment but extend into more serious issues like heat treat. Of course, my opinion on the subject is not worth much because I would much rather have 5 or 6 damn good vintage axes than 1 GB or Wett.
Anyway, once you get a good one and get the edge dialed in, I'm sure you'll be quite pleased with it.
SR69, I'm sure you will have better luck getting that replaced through the retailer as suggested. That thing looks terrible. Sorry you got such a lemon. If I was going down that road, I wouldn't bother with the Wett and just get the GB Scandi Forest axe. It seems that Wett's QC issues are not isolated to handle misalignment but extend into more serious issues like heat treat. Of course, my opinion on the subject is not worth much because I would much rather have 5 or 6 damn good vintage axes than 1 GB or Wett.
Anyway, once you get a good one and get the edge dialed in, I'm sure you'll be quite pleased with it.
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When and why, besides carving, is a flat cheek better than a convex? Im starting to form my own opinion but I have seen precious little actual testing.
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I think the convex cheeks really shine when it comes to real chopping with full strokes (splitting also). Out side of that, the first 1/4" to 3/4" of the bit is the most important part. I've put "scandi" type grinds on American hatchets with thick high centerlines, and they make fine carvers. At the same time, a flat cheeked European axe with a thin profile but a thick final bit (think Wetterlings) can be a pain in the ass. There are other interesting things you can do with the final edge. One of my favorite carvers is a fairly thick Kent pattern hatchet from England. I put a long, slightly convex bevel on the "inside" edge and a short, steep, flat bevel on the "outside" edge. It's fantastic.
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Solid point and advice taken. I forget myself at times when I see rash black and white opinions. But to each their own.
I just feel there's a place and a use for both. Also, there's a certain logical fallacy to comparing a product that is still being manufactured, is on the market, and is ready to use out-of-box to something that is no longer in production, requires time to find in suitable-to-restore condition, and more time, knowledge and effort to properly hang, sharpen and get into an otherwise usable state. Yes, when it comes down to actual cost, a wetterlings is 4-5x more expensive than a vintage head. But what about the expense of time, tools, and acquisition of skills? Not to say it's not worth it.. I'd be the last person to say that considering I have a fairly large collection of restored axes. What I am trying to say is that they're two different markets and intended demographics. If everyone thought that restoring a vintage axe was by far a better option to buying a production one, a good number of companies would be out of business right now and I'd be SoL finding good deals on vintage heads posted on undisclosed bidding sites (since I'd be damned if I could find them at garage sales in this city)
What I'm trying to get at is that if you're going to compare Swedish production axes to something, compare it to the ones America is currently producing. Ones that are also ready to go right off the shelf. That's really only Estwing and Council right now and IMO, Estwings are garbage and Council doesn't harden their steel to a high enough HRC for my tastes.
Well that's by far the main advantage. You could argue that the biggest use of an axe is for wood processing (chopping and splitting) and since a high centerline convex helps with that, it's automatically superior. But in all honesty, I haven't found a flat faced boy's axe (my GB Scandi) to be very lacking for the wood processing that I do (I know its limits) and haven't found the sticking all too terrible. The GBs also have a pretty thin bit and I've found that it penetrates very well into softwoods (the majority of what I use for firewood whilst camping). I also use my smaller axes (boys axe and under) just as much for carving/shaping as for wood processing and their lighter weight, thin bit and flat face really help with that. I'd say that this is why the GB SFA and Scandi appeals to the bushcraft crowd so much - pretty good jack of all trades design in a lightweight package.
As for me, I finally admitted to myself that one axe wasn't sufficient for my needs. So I actually bring along two: one for the belt (a flat faced GB wildlife hatchet) and one for the pack (a USA made Keen Kutter Jersey with a slight convex centerline).
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I did. They've notified me that they will offer a replacement. I know that Wetterlings will also take the axe back if the defect came from the factory, so I just covered all my bases here. If all the seller has is poorly made Wetterlings and I can't get a good one from them, I want to be "ahead" of the curve for when I had to contact the manufacturer.
Honestly though, for someone who's well informed on axes and with specific requirements (bit/handle alignment, grain orientation, etc) it probably would have been in your best interest to purchase from a reseller willing to hand-pick one for you (as I suggested a few posts back). Every manufacturer in existence lets a few duds slip through their QA and in this case, you ended up with one... but it's a problem that's fairly easily avoidable if you treat online sales as if you were making the purchase in person. If there are a ton of variables in a product you're about to purchase, just assume you'll get the worst and act before it gets shipped (GET ONE HAND PICKED
I did. I called the seller first and asked them specifically to please make sure that they hand pick a good axe and told them EXACTLY what I DID'NT want in an axe (which is exactly what they sent anyway). I believe I took the extra precautions necessary to ensure the
best possible outcome. In my request for an exchange, I asked only for a replacement if the axe is without defects. Period. That is not left up for personal interpretation.
Definitely agree with you there. I'm not going to name the seller. If they do the right thing and send me what I specifically requested "before" I placed my order, it'll be all good. They will have proven themselves to be honorable businessmen and to have dealt with it the right way. Although again, I did take the extra step to specify "how" I wanted "what" I wanted.
Thanks M.
Again, I'll give Wett/seller the chance to make things right.
I appreciated that when I was in business and it sucked when I didn't get that chance when I've messed up,
so I've been on both sides of the same coin and I want to be uber-fair before I permanently form an opinion
on either the seller or the manufacturer. Hopefully, anybody else reading this thinking about the same choice
will learn from my experience. And that'll be a positive side effect. For the record, I did check the seller out
before placing my order and read good things, so I was p'd to get something that I obviously went the extra
mile to "not" have happen.
Either way, I have a good cheap American axe on it's way to me that even if it's crap, I'm expecting that.
If it turns out to be a good axe, then I'm going to crow about it and let people know how great Council is.
The fact is that while I wanted the Council's Forest Edition axe for a while, I wasn't planning on buying it
any time soon. I basically purchased it out of "spite"! LOL! But, I'm going to have a lot of fun with it 'fer sure.
KK,
I came to that same conclusion myself this afternoon while ordering the 2nd axe.
If I can't find something like that Wett Fine Forester's Axe, then I'm just going to
go ahead and get a Carpenter's Hatchet for carving and something for bigger work.
Two separate tools, two specialties. And that's it. The Council with a 27.5" handle and @ supposedly 54-58RC
is probably going to be the ticket as my workhorse while the "other" axe (whether I get lucky and get my hands
on a Wett FFA or a GB or Husky Carpenter's Hatchet) will be for the bushcrafting tasks.
I'd have to say that THIS ^^^ is the lesson I've learned most here. Maybe the best compromise is to just get both.
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Square_peg
Gold Member
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I agree with this. It boils down to usage. If you're really gonna use your axe then you're gonna have to learn how sharpen it, how to re-hang, how to care for it in general. Most people never do that. That's why there are so many old axes available. Once they get used and dulled or broken then they get set aside. The old axe head lays in a corner of the garage because the owner thinks he's gonna fix it some day. But like CCR sang, someday never comes.
Most people buying an axe today fall into three categories. One, the weekend warrior who wants to split a little wood and maybe grub out a some small trees in the back yard. He gets the $30 import POS from the hardware store. The next is the mall ninja - he just wants an axe or 'hawk because he thinks it will make him look badass when he shows it off to his friends. He's ends up with an overpriced 'hawk that looks like some Klingon prop from Star Trek. Last is the wannabe survivor. He thinks his axe rather than his brain is going to save his life. He buys an axe based on mystique. He wants it made from the finest unobtanium in all the alpha quadrant (Sweden). Of the three - the weekend warrior gets the most for his money.
Maybe we should be telling every new guy that hanging an axe is a real hard skill to master
.And I am not going to lie, my GB hunters hatchet is just a pleasure to swing.
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When you refer to a flat cheek you are really meaning a certain flatness of the bevel along its length, (regardless of the bevel profile, hollow ground, flat or convex), because that's what it translates into for all practical purposes. This flatness transfers itself to the work, right, or the effect left behind on the cut surface. So with a flat cheek the cut will be more or less flat, the blade is operating like a chisel. With a convex cheek the cutting edge will hollow out the wood, its action is more like a gouge and a flat surface is unattainable, (think about the carving axe of cedareater out of Finland and the discussion about squaring up the timbers).
E.DB.
E.DB.
Yep, high center lines don't belong on all axes. But it is the biggest nock on imported axes to the USA by some. There is so much that goes into basic wood chopping like kind of wood, wet or dry, hard or soft. I do think that for traditional axe use in this country the high center line is what you need. It is also not true that all American axes have that high center line. That Council tool axe doesn't have enough to make any difference, in my opinion.