Who else uses a scythe?

[FortyTwoBlades]

Here's the old D&B snath that I found to send to the steam bender. This one has an extension of the collar to reinforce the pivot point of the swing plate. The curvature isn't nearly as strong as I'd like but exhibits the bends in the right places and directions to demonstrate to the steam bender. I'll be marking it off with painter's tape to indicate where things need to be different.

Some rather extreme chewing of the wood since the bozo who owned it originally didn't just see fit to stick a nail under the band of the nib, but rather they decided to actually hammer finish nails diagonally into the wood of the snath itself. I gently removed the ones I could, but some would require pliers to remove. Also there was a great big screw installed next to the block of the upper nib to prevent it from rotating. I moved both nibs into appropriate position for me.

Slight delamination from the bending at the factory.

Here's the curvature end-on.

 

[G-pig]

Thats a hell of a tang on this grass blade!

Built this wildwood snath that I thought looked really pretty. Balance is very nice. Came the top of a big Maple.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Snagged some more fresh trophies. Pics to follow, probably this weekend.

Landed a beautiful nicely forged TrueTemper weed blade that the seller had thoroughly wire brushed and it was in fairly pristine shape even before that. No forging flaws whatsoever and crisply done.

I also scored a four-pack of NOS Little Giant grass blades that, in spite of some rather bad pitting at the toes of the blades, and feature the company's proprietary "Monitor Heel" which created strength in the tang without adding weight. Typical crisp forgings with good solid stamps and, interestingly enough, the blades are crowned. This means that the blade curves upward along its length so the tip rides high. This helps facilitate a broad swath by assisting with blade presentation at the beginning and end of the stroke, but is a feature not often seen in American blades. Tyzack of England was well known for their best blades (under the Crown series name no less) featuring both a crowned geometry and laminated steel.

Lastly, I grabbed a couple of snaths of the 'bay, one of which had a blade (which I consider a freebee) and the other of which is a Seymour with three pristine labels on it and their own take on Derby & Ball's swing plate design (modified just enough to get around the patent and apply for one of their own) and I can't wait until they land. In the meantime I need to swing by the hardware store and pick up a wire brush for my drill so I can thoroughly clean those Little Giant blades. I was worried about rust embrittlement due to the heavy pitting at the toes but I tested one of them by first applying controlled torque to the point with a pair of pliers to see if it would crumble off, and it stood its ground firmly. I then ground straight into the edge to remove pitting damage that would interfere with proper sharpening and ground a quick edge on it and the steel responded favorably. The rust just got all in the belt so a good wire brushing prior to restoration and spray lacquering (to prevent repeated corrosion in the pits) ought to do the trick. Not in good enough shape to be considered collector-grade blades, but better than average for users!

 

[Steve Tall]

No Escher snaths, just a brown box full of goodies from the Vido's! (THANKS)

The lefty still don't have an upper grip (I know, I know, what a slouch). Gotta make one with the right shape to it.

[The following is written by Peter Vido]


G-pig, congratulations! You appear to be the fastest-learning snath maker I have yet come across; moreover, you are a man of action, not just words. While scores of others talked about making wildwood snaths, then dawdled, and then (often) came up with a shoddy version... you, it seems, had those four units put together by the time the blades we sent you hit your doorstep!

And it was smart to NOT have glued/permanently wedged the grips right away because there's a lot to be learned by taking time with that step. Holding the snath/blade unit in 'as if mowing' position, slowly turning the grips in their holes while feeling for the 'sweet spot', you may decide that one of the grips be best replaced with yet another and the unit re-tested. You may try the same snath with another "Austrian" style blade (which may appear similar to the uninitiated) and suddenly the unit feels way better... or worse. The differences are predictable once you work with enough variation and learn what to look for. The sideways tilt of the tang can make a huge difference in the overall balance, for instance.

Since wildwood snath making is hardly "a thing to learn inside a day"... I hereby offer a few comments. (You should be able to appreciate that an evaluation on a distance can be only so accurate. As it is, I already know that some of the angles are not quite what they appear in the photos.)

Of the four units laying beside each other, the one with the Luxor blade may be the closest to being a pleasure to use, other than the upper grip could use some turning out (away from the lower grip).

The lower grip on the snath with the shortest blade appears to not have acute enough bend (as it grew) and may also be set in a little too straight.
The lack of angle (between the 'stem' and the hand-held portion) in that grip could be partially compensated for if you drop the blade's point by shaving some wood off the right side (looking down the shaft) of the snath's bottom 3-4". But such might be, in this case, not a satisfactory enough solution. It may be best to replace the grip with another one. In that case look for one that has the stem naturally bent backwards -- which would compensate for the direction of the present hole/mortise and effectively shorten the distance between the grips. A snath with this short of a blade could have the grips closer together.

The lower grip on the snath next to it (far right) is 'off' in exactly the opposite way -- it is too acute. With that unit you'll find yourself either digging the blade's point into the ground, OR compensating by keeping your wrist cramped downwards (which is not comfortable). So I suggest you change that grips also, and then that snake-y snath will be OK; you had otherwise placed the grips and the blade rather well, I think.

That very acute grip could still be of use if you sink it within 3-4" of its top curve and use it on a shaft with a more pronounced upper curve (downwards) and/or with blade which has the tang sloped sideways (towards the point) more than this blade has it.

The snath you have leaning against a wall looks 'nearly flawless', other than the grips may be too close together in relation to the length of the bottom end of the shaft (though the photo angle could be distorting reality here).

The left hand unit some other time...

Keep up the fine work!
Peter

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

G-pig's just a natural snath wizard. I want to see him try doing a wildwood snath for an American. I think it's totally doable.

I snapped a crapload of pics of some of the latest pieces I snagged. They're uploading now and I'll post 'em up when they're done.

 

[G-pig]

[The following is written by Peter Vido]


G-pig, congratulations! You appear to be the fastest-learning snath maker I have yet come across; moreover, you are a man of action, not just words. While scores of others talked about making wildwood snaths, then dawdled, and then (often) came up with a shoddy version... you, it seems, had those four units put together by the time the blades we sent you hit your doorstep!

And it was smart to NOT have glued/permanently wedged the grips right away because there's a lot to be learned by taking time with that step. Holding the snath/blade unit in 'as if mowing' position, slowly turning the grips in their holes while feeling for the 'sweet spot', you may decide that one of the grips be best replaced with yet another and the unit re-tested. You may try the same snath with another "Austrian" style blade (which may appear similar to the uninitiated) and suddenly the unit feels way better... or worse. The differences are predictable once you work with enough variation and learn what to look for. The sideways tilt of the tang can make a huge difference in the overall balance, for instance.

Since wildwood snath making is hardly "a thing to learn inside a day"... I hereby offer a few comments. (You should be able to appreciate that an evaluation on a distance can be only so accurate. As it is, I already know that some of the angles are not quite what they appear in the photos.)

Of the four units laying beside each other, the one with the Luxor blade may be the closest to being a pleasure to use, other than the upper grip could use some turning out (away from the lower grip).

The lower grip on the snath with the shortest blade appears to not have acute enough bend (as it grew) and may also be set in a little too straight.
The lack of angle (between the 'stem' and the hand-held portion) in that grip could be partially compensated for if you drop the blade's point by shaving some wood off the right side (looking down the shaft) of the snath's bottom 3-4". But such might be, in this case, not a satisfactory enough solution. It may be best to replace the grip with another one. In that case look for one that has the stem naturally bent backwards -- which would compensate for the direction of the present hole/mortise and effectively shorten the distance between the grips. A snath with this short of a blade could have the grips closer together.

The lower grip on the snath next to it (far right) is 'off' in exactly the opposite way -- it is too acute. With that unit you'll find yourself either digging the blade's point into the ground, OR compensating by keeping your wrist cramped downwards (which is not comfortable). So I suggest you change that grips also, and then that snake-y snath will be OK; you had otherwise placed the grips and the blade rather well, I think.

That very acute grip could still be of use if you sink it within 3-4" of its top curve and use it on a shaft with a more pronounced upper curve (downwards) and/or with blade which has the tang sloped sideways (towards the point) more than this blade has it.

The snath you have leaning against a wall looks 'nearly flawless', other than the grips may be too close together in relation to the length of the bottom end of the shaft (though the photo angle could be distorting reality here).

The left hand unit some other time...

Keep up the fine work!
Peter

Thanks for taking the time to write that up Peter. I didn't specify in the posts, but the first grip with the Maple offset snath was just thrown on for the sake of the picture. I did "mock mow" with it, but immediately picked up on the problem (which was static no matter what snath it went on). The second grip is a different one, still fairly acute, but has more forward curvature to mellow out the acuteness and also to compensate for the hole being drilled slightly tilted towards the mower. I think that changed the balance of the unit when it was held at comfort. I'm not sure if the second grip lacks the traits of the first one "enough" to function or not. Conversely with the other snath, shaving the left hand side of the wood-tang contact surface would rotate that grip further away from the mower right?

I'll add the pictures once more for comparison sake.

Sorry for the mix up. I should have specified that in the posts.

Although I couldn't technically diagnose the problems, everything you said about the snath that the short 40CM blade resides on fell into place perfectly. The grips were to far apart to begin with, the nearly right angle of the shank to snath fitting aggravated that, and I didn't find the angle of the grip to the shank very comfortable either-- it was reminiscent of a scythe supply lower grip, which is to say, not pleasantly reminiscent. (The grips on the other Maple snath with the gentler off set are a little bit close, by perhaps 3/4" or something, but the photo seemed to make it look a little worse)

(Thanks for posting, Steve)

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Seymour Ironclad No.30 Grass Snath with original labels. Like many Seymours the snath as a whole--but especially the neck--is MASSIVELY over-thick and chunky. The Ironclad line, from what I've been able to gather, refers to the way that the loop bolt rides in a housing that's set off the end of the snath rather than passing through the wood itself. This variation is a clear knock-off of the Derby & Ball swing plate style but with changes made to it in order to circumvent the patent. Stronger than a D&B swing plate, but there are fewer serrations holding the swing plate and the extra metal (and consequent mass) really isn't necessary--the D&B classic swing plate is more than strong enough as-is. Curvature is okay...but could be better. Not a bad snath and after I cover the labels in several coats of spray lacquer to preserve them it'll be put in rotation as a user.

The labels:

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

The curvature. Only really one lateral bend. Boo. It should ideally curve back around to hug close to the user.

The hardware:

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Here's another snath I picked up. It's styled exactly like a STA-TITE "Backsaver" model but the wedged mounting plate is stamped Seymour. The style of curvature (or lack thereof) of this example is exactly the same as I've always seen on STA-TITEs of this style, which leads me to believe that Seymour may have bought them out at some point. The Backsaver wedge really only compensates for the lack of vertical curvature rather than providing additional pitch to assist with the lay of the blade.

The nibs have a domed brad cap over the recessed nut. I gently pried one up to confirm this.

The hardware. Note prominent Seymour marking.

Curvature:

You'll notice in the last image--"Wow! That blade is really laying parallel with the ground!" Yeah, but as mentioned that's not because of the Backsaver plate. I heated the tang with a MAPP gas torch and added pitch to the tang to fit it to the snath. I used the ugliest of those TrueTemper "mulch blades" of mine since it was my first foray into adjusting the pitch of a tang in this manner. Came out PERFECT. I wrapped the beard with a soaking wet rag to keep the heat treatment from being impacted.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Two of the four North Wayne Tool Co./Little Giant grass blades I scored as a lot from a local. These are the shorter two--of the longer ones, one is in the saw vice getting the wire brush treatment and the other is temporarily mounted on my ultra-curvy ancient D&B snath for hanging it from the rafters in the workshop. Photos of that match made in heaven later. These blades feature their original blue-green paint job, a beaded web, a crowned blade (the blade curves distally as well as laterally) and their signature Monitor Heel" which is a thickened region right at the inside of the turn of the tang--the steel behind it is at the same thickness of the rest of the tang. These blades appear to have never been used, but do exhibit pitting from storage. No rust embrittlement though! These blades are light, stiff, and "hard but not too hard" just like their advertisements boasted. VERY crisp execution of the forging as well.

Beauty shots--one of the longer NWT blades on the aforementioned high-curve D&B snath along with my Union Fork & Hoe 3-tined hay fork and unmarked "Lightning"-pattern hay knife. The NWT blade on that snath is so heart-achingly PERFECT but I don't trust the condition of the snath with it being that old and I don't want to risk damaging it.

Remnants of the label on this blade:

Pitting at the tip. Gonna' need some heavy cleanup and then it'll be lacquered to keep water from hiding in the pits and making them worse.

The backside:

The curvature of the snath. Gorgeous.

Last pics for now. Another TrueTemper weed blade that I picked up. Nice clean forging on this one. The seller must have electrolytically cleaned this one.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Here's where I've found it best to heat the tang so that it stays nice and flat during bending. Bring it to a bright cherry red and clamp in the vice with the tang horizontal and bend while still hot. Allow to air cool.

 

[Square_peg]

I heated the tang with a MAPP gas torch and added pitch to the tang to fit it to the snath. I used the ugliest of those TrueTemper "mulch blades" of mine since it was my first foray into adjusting the pitch of a tang in this manner. Came out PERFECT. I wrapped the beard with a soaking wet rag to keep the heat treatment from being impacted.

Good move. And with the wet rag it's perfectly safe. :thumbup:
MAPP gas is handy stuff. Sometimes I'll even heat a piece with two torches. It's easier than firing up the coal forge for one small bit of work. I need an acetylene torch.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I considered getting one of the mini acetylene units but the MAPP torch was more appropriate for my current shop setup. The workshop is in the central structure of the connected farmhouse we rent and it's an all wood structure so the compact/mobile aspect of the MAPP torch makes it ideal. I can do the heating outside then pop inside to do the bending in the vice, which is positioned right next to the door. I picked up a fire extinguisher to go with the torch just in case.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Got one of those long NWT blades almost 100% wire brushed and pitched the tang on it. It's going to be a BEAUTIFUL mower. It was tricky to heat the tang on that one because the shank is so short. Got a perfect bend to it, though, so now all that's left to do is finish getting a little of the paint/rust out of the rib before grinding out edge damage, lacquering it, then sharpening it up.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

More sweet loot. Talk about NOS! This thing still has a wire edge on it from factory grinding, for crying out loud! This one will never touch grass, but it may go up on the wall! You'll notice that the entire blade is painted with a slightly transparent blue-green enamel, which gives the appearance of a dark green over the black finish from heat treatment. The tang has a very slight pitch to it, and the knob of the tang has a prominent ledge from the end having been ground. The edge/web of the blade is straight as an arrow and the blade is just the right weight.

I also scored a mint 1940's NWT catalog that should be landing on Friday.

 

[Square_peg]

Talk about pristine!

 

[G-pig]

Took a couple of pics of the curves on my D&B snath picked off of craigslist.

Not as curvy as that old one you've got, but still really nice.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Derby & Ball: simply the best!

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Here's a little treasure that landed today. An invoice from Emerson & Stevens circa 1940. Note the text and the logo. The actual items purchased were axes, but the valuable info is about their scythes!

 

[Square_peg]

That's cool.