Who Will Die First when SHTF

I have to say I'm pretty impressed with the tone this thread has taken. We haven't even had any troll's claim with a wink, wink, 'I may have no food, but I have plenty of guns and ammo'. Meaning, I'm a thug waiting for an excuse to perform violence. Kudos to W&SS for keeping the discussion on the up and up here!
 
ttoney83 said:
Erasmus said:
I think that many who "fantasize" about the SHTF scenarios DON't think it through. I damn sure wouldn't be lookin for a fight. I will pretty much be like I always am, freindly, a relationship builder in my job, I'll be a relationship builder in a SHTF scenario, expanding the group, enhancing it's abilities and encouraging members of the group to do the same. The fewer the casualties the better it is for all.
How tragic that would be for some wanna be badass survivalist to suddenly realize th reality when their son or daughter's face can no longer be recognized.....Tough talk is just talk with 90 percent of the world's population. Best to keep it real and freindly as much as possible. I think it could be done with relative ease since most people don't want to fight anyway and most have never even been in a fight for real.
Click to expand...

Your right, what was I thinking. Going into the mountains, to a place I am familiar with, with people I know, of diverse backgrounds then defending said place with force. I am such a keyboard warrior, I just hope nothing SHTFish happens, it would suck to have to run away from trouble and hope for the best.

Casualties happen, they don't call it war because it's fair or fun.
Click to expand...
 
kgd said:
I have to say I'm pretty impressed with the tone this thread has taken. We haven't even had any troll's claim with a wink, wink, 'I may have no food, but I have plenty of guns and ammo'. Meaning, I'm a thug waiting for an excuse to perform violence. Kudos to W&SS for keeping the discussion on the up and up here!
Click to expand...

I think it's because most who post in W&SS, know each others faces, their dogs names, favorite fire starting methods, the knife they carry and on the whole, respect each others view points coming from all over the world. :thumbup:

Its a better way of life on the farm here. :D
 
Unless conditions become completely unbearable I'm going to stay with my community, try to mitigate the devastation, and try to restore some semblance of civility. I'm sure there are many like me that feel obligated, largely due to our careers, to tough it out until it can't be done anymore. I would hope that those who work to provide essential services...police, fire, public utilities, etc., would act much in the same way.
 
Manny people have commented on humanitys greatest asset, Our abilitie to cominucate. We are socialy evolved creatures very dependent on human interaction. In any SHTF situation after the initial panic people will want to pick up the pieces and reform some sembalance of society. Its really impressive to hear so many members commenting to that.

The lone wolf senario often glorified by many survivalist does seem to stem from a complete disatifaction with society and a disire to disconect from all the mind numbingly mundane crap in our culture. I completly understand this urge. It very hard to not wish/expect a sociatal melt down at any molment considering how disfunctional our goverment and culture have become.
 
I think the meek will inherit the earth.

In Borneo, when two men meet on the trail they sit down and start having a long conversation about their next of kin. They spend a long time tracing each other's roots until they arrive at a common ancestor. They do this so that the bond of a common ancestor gives them grounds not to kill each other.

Everyone bugging out to the hills will be armed - some will have a spot to defend, others will be roaming around either looking for a spot to defend or just by choice (in search of game or other resources). Any two groups will probably be strangers to each other - and when they encounter the other they're both going to be confronted with the stark choice, "If I don't start shooting first, they just might..." Since each group has the same stark choice, they'll probably each start shooting rather than talking.

The less encounters you have, the more your chances of survival go up. Keep moving, keep a low profile, retreat - don't defend. Once all the stockpiles of ammo starts running low and people get a little wiser about the sensibility of shooting-your-way-through-the-world, you might want to send scouts (willing to be captured or killed) out to try and make treatises - but until the various King-of-this-or-that-hill battles have been decided, it's best to stay out of the way, stay hidden, stay meek.
 
Bottom line.....Move to a rural area that has some natural resources and become as self sufficient as possible, now while you still can!
 
I agree with you ,reconranger. In a superbad situation I would be heading to either western N.C.(family and long time friends) or northern Florida(armybuddy),actually we are planning to move to Fl. in the very near future ,where the Okefenokee will be my backyard.As far as alternate modes of transportation go ,that is a crucial thing and should not be overlooked,but I think Im good there with a keyring full of keys to every piece of heavy Equipment made and the Know how to drive any thing with a transmission.
 
Zombie Zeke said:
That was a good video, I think she is by and large correct, generalities are just that though, she has her mindset in the right place. If I were to add something to her thoughts that is missing in my opinion its the techie subset, those who have built their skills and in turn their careers and lifestyles on computers. It's one thing to talk on a good game behind the screen but, come a disaster the first thing gone is power, and those pasty lovers of clicking buttons, are going to be out of breathe quite soon. Then applying the binary, everything is black and white thought process of always being right given to those types, working together would be tedious and just a matter of time before their number is up. Just my opinion.

I like her mentality, but after watching some of her vids that bunker up, hunker down thought process has it's disadvantages as well.

Something for those who like to read about this type of stuff:

http://www.amazon.com/Patriots-Surviving-James-Wesley-Rawles/dp/156975599X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1288536597&sr=1-1
Click to expand...


You might be underestimating the tech side. Not all are pasty skinned with the thick glasses.
 
biggun3006 said:
You might be underestimating the tech side. Not all are pasty skinned with the thick glasses.
Click to expand...

You are right, its just a generality like everything that was stated in the video. Mass quantities of a career in front of the computer can't be good for you either though.
 
Zombie Zeke said:
You are right, its just a generality like everything that was stated in the video. Mass quantities of a career in front of the computer can't be good for you either though.
Click to expand...

Well, no, sitting in front of a computer isn't good for you, but there are a lot of people involved in that field of work and it pays well. Consequently you have a lot of people involved in IT that are also outdoors enthusiasts and in relatively good shape. If you look at the U.S. and realize that most of tech side is concentrated in Northern California and Washington State, it would make sense that a lot of the people out there doing some pretty physicallly grueling activities like rafting, rock climbing, hang gliding, etc. are employed doing something with computers.

I know there's this image of a 20-something basement dwelling, hot-pocket-eating laze-about that frequents the computer-technology field, but for the most part the people actually employed in the field and making the kind of money to partake in such activities are in relatively good shape compared to the average WoW player or something.
 
Zombie Zeke said:
ttoney83 said:
Your right, what was I thinking. Going into the mountains, to a place I am familiar with, with people I know, of diverse backgrounds then defending said place with force. I am such a keyboard warrior, I just hope nothing SHTFish happens, it would suck to have to run away from trouble and hope for the best.

Casualties happen, they don't call it war because it's fair or fun.
Click to expand...

My comment was a generalization and not directed at anyone in particular. Yours just happened to be an example. But I have some questions I genuinely hope you'll answer because I am curious. Not trying to start any trouble but I find this type of SHTF attitude very interesting. I mean, you seem to call it war at the end of the quote above. WOULD that actually be war? Is one suddenly thrust into a war simply because infrastructure fails, or there is a natural disaster?
This place where you camp? Do you know that it is not frequented by other campers? Other people who might be thinking as you are thinking and what if they arrive there before "your" people? It almost sounds as if you're looking for a fight. Almost. Yes, it sounds like you have a large group ready and willing to survive together and that's great. I think however that the attitude of "don't think we won't be playing King of the hill" is an attitude which is looking for trouble and likely to draw you and yours into unecessary conflict which may shorten your lives in a SHTF scenario.

Run away from trouble? Trouble is likely to be anywhere and everywhere. Trouble may be no where....One can take the view that all persons not your own are trouble to be eliminated, or one can take the human perspective and welcome more into the fold and thereby increase their ability to survive. Not all refugees will be useless eaters out to "steal" our precious resources.

Yeah, I've been in the Army, I've got friends and family represented in every branch of the military, nurses and teachers, mechanics and engineers etc. etc. There is no garauntee any of them would make it to a "safe location" for one thing and so there is no garauntee that you or I would have the numbers we "plan" on having. My point is, this sort of attitude, sort of a shoot first ask questions later attitude, is likely to "draw fire" and in a SHTF scenario a small group can ill afford to draw hostile attention to themselves by shooting first and asking questions later. Maybe that's not actually your intent. Maybe that's not actually how you would end up living that sort of scenario, who knows, but it does sort of come across as tough guy Rambo type stuff which hasn't been thoroughly thought out.

In the end, or the beginning (depending on one's perspective) one can look at potential resources (refugees) as potential threats and kill them, or recognize them as potentialy productive members of the group and welcome them into a growing community.

Nother few questions if you don't mind; How WOULD you handle a random group of people approaching "your territory"? What if they were armed but showing no hostile intent?

I'm just sayin, no offense intended. :)
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Has anyone given any thought to the fact that millions of folks of all skill levels are going to show up on your wilderness door step? They will scare away food that moves, trample, pee, and poop on anything that doesn't. The honest fact is those that survive will likely be the ones that stay put.

The folks in the know I talked to believe there is no chance of surviving a bug out, from the military. Lack of food and water along with things spread from the millions headed to the wild will take care of non military bug outs. When one logically plays it out you can see how silly bugging out really is.

While hunting on state land I tracked hunter activity. My goal was to learn when and where people walked, talked, ate, and used the restroom. I figured the deer and other animals did so if I had the same info I would know where to go to intercept. In the end it was pretty funny. Even in remote areas people walked within feet of the next and most times in the same foot steps. As different as people thought they were they all did exactly the same thing and went the same places. The critters learned it quickly too.
 
I think we just have to remember that people who hold a particular world view often times structure their lives in order to help fullfill that world view. I have no positive expectations about my ability to survive if I have to bug out. If I bug out, things are bad, real bad. Outside of my home and environs my resources shrink to subsistence levels. Ammunition becomes even more finite, and control of environment becomes nill. Even if you do everything right you can end up dead. Too many variables to control. When you bug out, you are rolling the dice no matter how well prepared you think you are. There were plenty of armed folks during Katrina, or other civil unrest in this and other countries. Pleny of them had good intentions, led good and moral lives, and were quite willing to "pull the trigger". Some of them ended up dead because they were out in the open, they were targets - and armed targets have something worth protecting ergo worth taking. I don't want to willingly be in such an environment if I can at all avoid it. If you think you are safer in the woods or the country I think you would be sadly mistaken.
 
Who will die first?

The good people, the givers, will die first. The salt of the earth. They will be murdered and their substance squandered by the selfish takers.

With a bad economy, lots of people expect to sit on unemployment for YEARS. If that goes away in some bad crash, the selfish takers will WAY outnumber the givers. And they'll be hungry. For what you've got.
 
Erasmus said:
Who will die first?

The good people, the givers, will die first. The salt of the earth. They will be murdered and their substance squandered by the selfish takers.

With a bad economy, lots of people expect to sit on unemployment for YEARS. If that goes away in some bad crash, the selfish takers will WAY outnumber the givers. And they'll be hungry. For what you've got.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty cynical, but you've got me beat by a mile. I personally have few social needs, but in general I think our species has survived and thrived largely due to an innate desire to form and maintain social bonds. I think those pulling together will far outnumber those pulling us all apart.
 
JCavSD said:
I'm pretty cynical, but you've got me beat by a mile. I personally have few social needs, but in general I think our species has survived and thrived largely due to an innate desire to form and maintain social bonds. I think those pulling together will far outnumber those pulling us all apart.
Click to expand...

I can agree with that, but in desperate situations, people don't act like humans, they act like animals. Animals act on instinct and might makes right. Look at the last 50yrs of riots in large metro cities. Gets ugly fast.

I am a decent, law abiding family man. When my kids are starving, you don't want to be between me and food. When my kids are freezing in the cold, you don't want to be between me and shelter. When my kids are in danger, you don't want to be the reason for it. See what I mean. I can endure hardships, but I won't let my children suffer, and I will do any and everything it takes to take care of them, whatever the cost, even my life. Desperate times make desperate people.

I believe the essence of this discussion is what would we do in SHTF scenario, my take is that I don't want to get desperate, and I don't want to be between desperate people and the things they need. I choose remove myself from the hubs of humanity in a SHTF scenario, so as not to be between the needers and the needs. I'm not buggin' out to the woods to hide in a debris hut, I'm retreating to an area I can control, with the help of others that have the same mindset, to guard my resources. I can't do that living in the middle of 30,000 people. I can do that in a mountainous area with bottle neck entrances and and large hills that I can look down and see whats coming.

I have made a plan, and others have agreed that its good enough to follow. They feel that safety in a bad situation comes from a group, but not a group of all. During Katrina, looters were stealing electronics, when there was no power, gangs were running the streets, murdering, raping, and killing, because there was no one to stop them. The same thing happened in Watts, LA, Florida, and Detroit. These weren't street thugs and criminals, they were people who thought in the chaos, they could come out ahead by taking and doing as they wish.

I have always saw "people" in 3 categories, Sheep, Wolves, and Shepherds. I'm no sheep, rarely a wolf, and always a sheherd. I can't tend my flock, when I am surrounded by wolves.

Moose
 
I understand where you're coming from Moose. However, I think in a major SHTF scenario "retreating to an area I can control" is probably off the table. The "reality" is that your mountain hideaway may not be accessible anymore, or it may be occupied by others, or there may be another shepherd bigger and stronger than you.

All of what we're saying is so ridiculously situational it's almost funny. However, I do believe that in a crisis situation the best in humanity tends pull people together and rise to the top. Evolution maintains the upper hand.
 
JCavSD said:
I understand where you're coming from Moose. However, I think in a major SHTF scenario "retreating to an area I can control" is probably off the table. The "reality" is that your mountain hideaway may not be accessible anymore, or it may be occupied by others, or there may be another shepherd bigger and stronger than you.

All of what we're saying is so ridiculously situational it's almost funny. However, I do believe that in a crisis situation the best in humanity tends pull people together and rise to the top. Evolution maintains the upper hand.
Click to expand...

Tis true, could be a bigger shepherd in my garden, but, I've got a motto, "Trust in God and carry loaded gun".

You are also correct in your observation of this being ridiculously situational. It fun to talk about though, and look at what an interesting thread we have with not trolling, bitching, or bigger balling. Its kinda nice. Lots of different perspectives, being discussed rationally. Now if we could just get a zombie thread like that................

:D:thumbup:
Moose
 
moosez45 said:
Tis true, could be a bigger shepherd in my garden, but, I've got a motto, "Trust in God and carry loaded gun".

You are also correct in your observation of this being ridiculously situational. It fun to talk about though, and look at what an interesting thread we have with not trolling, bitching, or bigger balling. Its kinda nice. Lots of different perspectives, being discussed rationally. Now if we could just get a zombie thread like that................

:D:thumbup:
Moose
Click to expand...

Atheist here, so I trust in no god, but I've stockpiled a tremendous amount of beer and I believe that will give me the edge. I may just be the beer zombie you're looking for.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top