Who Would Be Interested In Doing A Collaboration Classic Hunter With Me??

That looks great Dan. Who cares about Steve Sando's last name anyway :D.

So all others can keep up with handle stuff, Dan gave me a call last evening and we spoke about many things. To boil it down we figured it out this way: John will do as earlier detailed. He will aquire the cobalt blue, slice the liners, skeloton them with 1/2 inch wide vacancy in the center, cut it to outside dimensions, and put a few (about four I think so far) tiny pin holes in it for hidden retainer pins which he will supply. I will gind the back side of ivory to thickness and attach the jade liners. I will fill the skeloton cut-out to add strength to that part of the ivory scales. I will grind 20 degree dovetails for both front and back bolsters. I then ship to Dan. Dan does all bolsters, drills all holes in tang, scales and bolsters and fits and assembles the handle. He then sends to me to profile the handle. Who does final shaping is still tenative but as it stands it will be he or I.

John and I have gotten together on the final details about the liners and we will also talk on the phone, probably this evening, to be sure we both understand completely. Most recently I specified the liners be 3 5/8 L X 1 1/4 W X 1/16 inch thick with a center cut out 1/2 wide by 3 inch Long.

Steve has been at it researching with some others to decide mokume pattern. Loredo has been in touch and I returned to him size of stock to make: 1 1/2 X 5 X 5/16 inch.

Things have really gotten ligned out these past couple days. Roger
 
This is just a question - I've never used ivory - but,

Is it ok to epoxy the ivory directly to the stone and bolsters?

Will the ivory crack since it expands/contracts at different rates than the other materials? Is it stabilized?

If we use chicago-style or loveless bolts, could we use a silicon adhesive?

Again, I'm not involved in that part, but for my own education.

Steve
 
Steve, Dan is suggesting we not glass the jade to the ivory. His argument is it will be more of a take apart that way and easier to repair if the owner ever breaks one of the parts. I am sold except that now I wonder if I can get a tight grind on both ivory and jade without glassing. John will be able to advise me better about that and we will be on the phone together soon. I am sold that the center, where the jade cut out is, does need to be filled.

There will be no epoxy used on bolsters and the liners are only for the ivory scales.

RL
 
Guys,

I ain't got nothin' to do with this project, and I'm not askin, but this is just about the most exciting post/education I've ever seen on any of the knife sites that I read. Don't stop posting everything you can think of, just reading along keeps the rest of us involved through your discussions.
Great design, simple but beautiful, kinda like me.:)
 
UPDATE ON JADE: I spoke with John tonight and all is set now on starting the jade. He had already begun the search for the cobalt blue and full specs are determined and understood by him and I (those basic specs I posted here earlier today). In addition he seems to believe I will be okay to NOT glass the jade to the ivory. He has warned me to go slow as to not allow the jade to heat much at all but feels I will be okay and also suggested that, if I do as instructed, I may be able to grind with the belts I have in stock. My intention is to do as Dan suggested and keep it a total take-apart knife and, therefore, NOT glass the jade.

And, I really don't remember if I posted this or not - but Nick told me he intends to make the damascus of 1084 and 15N20. I know all are intesrested in that. Sorry for being tardy in reporting that, if I was.

canyonman, thanks for the up lift. If I don't screw my end up this will become a collectable. Our team is class A premo.

Off the subject: I was finally able to get back to the cave bear fang knife this evening and got the blade ground. My first experience with blue zirconia. WoW, does that blue z. make dust out of steel.

RL
 
Canyon -- thanks, it's nice to know that someone is following this. Rlinger -- I don't think you'll screw this up, you've pulled together a great idea into a work in progress.

I have a question about the blanks -- how many to make? If anyone doesn't need one, but wants one as a "souvenir," let me know. I should have already had these done, but had to finish some leatherwork to go out. I hope I'm not holding things up.
 
Having been away for a couple of days, it was fun to get caught up. I felt a bit like canyonman, this is good to read. :D

Roger, sorry I haven't been as communicative as I normally would be but I have good reasons - I'm too old for physical labor and I've been wallowing in it. I'm feeling sorry for myself! Need to get back into the shop.

I sure like the way this has shaped up. It's going to be a beautiful knife. Can't wait to see the finished product...

Let's talk about filework. I'm perfectly happy to do that and would like some feedback. Someone suggested that we keep it to the spine of the blade and I agree with that. Who has suggestions for the pattern?

Dave
 
Michael, a "keepsake" blade blank is a good idea. I think I'll make myself one when I get the actual knife blank from you.

Dave
 
Roger a couple thoughts
1 another reason I suggested not fixing the jade to the Ivory
you don't want to grind the Ivory wet and you can grind the Jade wet I believe right?
this will help in that part.

2 the Thong hole you said center cut out 1/2 wide by 3 inch Long
we need to watch where the hole goes in the jade or the cut out
. if a hole in the jade, it needs to be bigger than the tang hole
and the hole in the bolsters. so we don't hit the jade drilling them out.

3 you wrote(nick told me he intends to make the Damascus of 1084 and 15N20)
the window on time from heat to quench is more on 1095 will that help
you more on the edge quench we spoke of. :confused:

:)
 
Well, not to sound rude, but I totally disagree.

Every book and bit of first hand experience I have says that the window for hardening from austenitizing to quenching 1084 is quite a bit longer than 1095.

1095 is typically listed as a water quenching steel, meaning it needs a very fast and abrupt drop past the nose of the hardening curve...while 1084 is listed as an oil quenching steel.

Also, 1084 is very similar in hardening characteristics to 15N20, and they weld very readily. It's a match hard to beat.

That's also why about 80% of the steel that bladesmiths are making these days are 1084/15N20.

:) Nick
 
Nick, I am pleased to hear that about the steel. I sure don't want to get in between two knife makers that I highly respect. I'll do my best with the HT and get the steel to the quench quickly regardless.

However, I just got through triple edge quenching a blade I ground out of some Thunderforged number one twist (1095/01/nickel). My first two edge quenches were just fine. I had it in the temper oven and thought well I'll just do a third quench. That is when everything went bad. On the third edge quench I warped the edge, real bad. I straightened it to see if I would warp her again and on the fourth quench I sure did. That was my own blade I did that too. I can make another. On this knife though I am saying right now I am not going to edge quench. I just can't take that chance on so many other's work. I wish to do a full quench.

One thing that really frustrated me is I couldn't see the shadows because of all that nickel and had to go by color and magnet. Like I say the first two quenches were just fine. I didn't use the oven because I wanted to get the edge to the quench real quick so I could practice for that 1084 I was warned about. I used my gas forge instead because I can see what's going on and can grab the steel faster. I can't say that's why I messed up the third edge quench though

After you make the steel can you send me a couple scrap pieces to play with?? They don't have to be long pieces.

Thanks a bunch for all you're doing. Darn I feel low about warping that blade edge.

RL
 
Roger I havent had good luck with thunderfoged damascus either. The directions that come with it suck. The thing about that stuff is it isnt normalized and stress relieved and annealed properly. Plus it is imported and made from O-1 (oil hardening) and 1095 (water or brine hardening). Not a good match IMHO. The poor stuff doesnt know what to do in a heat-treat. They wouldnt replace the piece I broke so maybe Im still mad at them.

Nick has a consistant mix and will give real instructions for your way of doing things. Stop worrying. We have confidence in your work especially with good steel.
 
I agree with Bruce about that steel Roger. I feel pretty strongly that you can make steels more "deep hardening" depending on proper time and temps...but they still, by nature, are predisposed to one of the other.

O1 is a very deep hardening steel (oil quench) like Bruce stated, and 1095 is shallow hardening (water, brine, or VERY fast oil). And Nickel won't harden.

This all makes for a very difficult steel to try and harden without problems. One steel wanting to harden at one rate, another at a different speed, and then one that won't...It's chaos! :D

So like Bruce said, don't beat yourself up over it.

I'm sure you'll do a great job on this blade! :)

Nick
 
I'll go by Nick's HT specs., of course. In the mean time I'll research for more info on 1084 just so I can be more comfortable about what I'll be doing. I should have learned something about 1095 before cooking that thunderforged. I know alittle about it now :( .

Thanks to all (again).

RL
 
:( Roger
sorry if I got any facts on 1095 and 1084 mixed up
I don't use 1084 but I do use the 1095
the read I got on it was the other way around but that was
on a tread here some time back..that's what I get for not
researching it myself, insert :footinmou and one more :footinmou
Roger I'd go by Nicks instructions it's his steel..:)
Just have fun with it..that's what it's about :)
 
No problem on the thunderforged from your advise to me Dan. I must have gone to long on heating it for the third edge quench. I did something to a small area of the edge. This last time (quench #5) I heated it in the oven and did a full blade quench and it warped in the same exact spot again. Since its not being made for a customer I think I can profile that spot out since I started with a 1 1/16 inch wide blade for a 3 3/4 inch long blade. I might be able to save it and if I can't, that's just one small part of a very long learning curve.

RL
 
Dan made an excellent point on the jade and ivory grinding. I have a suggestion about grinding the ivory and jade for final fit; with spacers the same thickness as the jade. then remove the spacers and use the spacers for pattern on the jade.Wet grind jade to a close final fit. Then re-assemble ivory and jade to tang, and then carefully dry profile grind the final 1000's fit. Remove jade and polish the jade edges, the only part of the jade that will be seen after final assembly. I don't really beleive we can get a perfect fit by doing the jade completely by itself, as Dan has said, too. SOME dry profile grinding will have to be done with all the handle parts assembled together. I am just trying to cut down work on our poor soul that has nerves of steel, our guy that is dry profile grinding both jade,ivory combo. I'm sure you folks have some good ideas on this aspect, too.
 
That's just fine John. What material would you suggest I make the 'pattern liners' of. Would micarta work well for that?? I think when you said spacers you probably ment to say liners(?). I must admit I guess I missed that suggestion by Dan. I suppose it has been difficult for even me to properly obsorb all that has been written here.

With the jade only pinned and not glassed as we previuosly thought your's and Dan's fine idea should work well. These are the kind of things that will help in making this the caliber knife Bruce expects of us.

RL
 
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