Bali-Flipper
Banned
- Joined
- May 8, 2002
- Messages
- 467
I don't think you deserve the knife if you act like this.
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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
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Who's selling Custom Balisongs?
- Thread starter AroKiem
- Start date
I don't think you deserve the knife if you act like this.
Very nice arokiem. So if Pete didn't put words in your mouth and you agree that none of those things are Chris' fault, then... Chris wasn't nice to you when the deal went sour because it was all your fault? Sounds reasonable. A truly custom job (blade ground to your drawing) that you couldn't pay for when the time came and then you go and imply that Chris was anything less than totally honest? nice.
I think it has a lot to do with me Kiem.., and with everyone that reads and participates on this Forum. It is vague and unfair to misrepresent a "deal" with anyone, when they are not here to reply.
Kiem.., if you could try reading my post again..., I don't talk to Chris everyday.., and he is not a personal friend of mine. This is what I wrote.
I think my point was pretty clear. It was not about how much I talk to Chris Olofson..., or about buying a knife you ordered from him.
It was about honesty....
I'm "Going off" Kiem???? Actually..., you've pretty clearly answered what I was interested in simply through the way you handled this.
Unless someone has vastly different experience than I've had with Chris..., my guess is that you were at fault.., and that you know it.
You can type all the naughty words you want to on a keyboard Kiem.., but this isn't about challenging people.., or popping off, or knives up anyone's anal region ~~> (but thanks for flirting). It's simply about honesty, integrity.., and taking some sort of responsibility for your contribution to "Deals Gone Sour"....
You are right that I put some words in your mouth.., and now you can replace them with the truth if you choose to. Since Chris isn't here to say anything regarding your knife order.., I thought it was fair, and impartial, to view my own experience dealing with him..., and I did add some "food for thought" about ordering custom knives.
If you read the Forum closely.., you'll see that many guys have helped out in situations where money wasn't available for certain pre-ordered knives.
The resolution for these situations (in my opinion), isn't making up excuses.., or subtely misleading other potential customers of any given knifemaker. The folks on this Forum will quickly recognize that for exactly what it is..., and in this specific instance Kiem.., it has everything to do with not just me.., but all of us. Your comments in the "Private Chatroom" ("Balisong Badasses").., and subtle hints about Chris Olofson not meeting your needs are simply not true..., and that does bother me.
In the end.., we all have nothing more than our established credibility when we deal with other folks with the same love for Balisongs common to this Forum. That is actually true for both "Knife Enthusiasts" like you and I..., but even more critical for those that make knives. My post defended Chris because he's not here. Obviously.., both yourself.., and Mr. Olofson will establish your separate ratings for credibility as time goes on....
Good luck...
"Hunters seek what they [WANT].., Seekers hunt what they [NEED]"
This part is where I'll having a hard time with the whole deal. Let me see if I got the facts right. You asked Chris to grind you a blade based on your design. A design that Chris doesn't have as part of his standard offerings. You've asked a maker to take the time out to work out the kinks to make your design come to life. Granted he came back to you with a compromised grind (and we can all locate the facts to this part of the story), and it wasn't exactly the one you originally sent him, you still went ahead and ordered it. OK, the bali wasn't ready by the due date (sometime in June), but guess what? The deal is still valid. Your inability to manage money is what's causing the problem here. Chris took your word that you'll pay for the one-off bali without a deposit (not something I've seen custom makers do often) and when the bali was ready you didn't have the money. The fact that Chris held off selling it to someone else, for a couple of weeks while you were in Vietnam, in hopes to give you time to fulfill your deal, is another good indication he's got higher moral fiber than you. Then on top of it all, you go and announce that you have money to spend on a custom bali (which means you do have the money), and criticize fellow forum members for trying to find out what went wrong?
Aside from the bali not being ready by Blade 02, which I don't feel qualifies as a deal breaker, what other reasons do you honestly have for not paying for a bali you designed and Chris took the time out to make?
Feel much better to be called a kid,...i'll take that as a compliment.,.
We both know whats the deal between him and i.And i'll just keep it at that.Not questions asked....
Now i don't want to go announcing to the whole balisong fourms what chirs and i spoke about.
I never said Chirs is a Bad guy...just a deal didn't go as planned and i wasn't happy.
Agian like i said i spoke with him and he know whats up and we will keep it at that.
I'm not sure "surprised" is the right word Bill.., but I think I understand your point. There is certainly a judgement factor in dealing with younger people.., but I think the younger people on here all truly understand the committment made when ordering a custom knife..., and frankly, my points were made simply to give Chris Olofson a little support in a domain he currently has no access to.
I work with kids for a living..., and I think it's great we have so many young enthuthiastic folks taking part.., and in fact.., many of those I think are younger, have contributed lots to the Forum (including Keim), ie., videos, pictures, new ideas, etc.
I've been told that Kiem is almost 18, and I do feel that's old enough to field a few questions that are a little tough after making subtle remarks that could damage and new knifemaker.
I've talked to many of the younger guys on here.., and also purchased/sold "stuff" from/to them.., and all have been extremely mature and forthright. Also, some have been quite a bit younger than Keim is, so my point is truly not about age, simply about character.
I know I've certainly shown bad judgement in making a few purchases I really shouldn't have for one reason or another, and I'm probably not alone in that respect since we all want every knife we see...lol. In this regard.., some of us older guys may have less impulse control than those younger, which sort of neutralizes the "age" thing.
I can't answer your exact question of whether I feel like the under 20 set should be expected to act "adult".., because I see 15 year olds on the Forums acting very adult at times.., and some guys about my age doing the opposite.
I do expect that we all behave honestly, and respectfully about deals we agree to.., so I suppose my answer would be a modified yes.., regarding exepectations <~~ although I'm still not certain what "Adult Behavior" is since my next favorite hobby is "Robotix"...lol.
"Hunters seek what they [WANT].., Seekers hunt what they [NEED]"
Kiem,
Trying to change the subject huh? It is understandable...You continuously contradict yourself....Typical childish behavior...The language you used should get you banned from BF!
Examonlyf,
The Balisong and its use (not talking about flipping) has been a "guarded" area for hundreds of years in order to screen and keep out those who lack the maturity needed to deal with such a serious subject. It is our responsibility to protect children from themselves.
Let this be a lesson for makers, distributors, and moderators.
DONT DEAL WITH CHILDREN!!!
Bill
Trying to change the subject huh? It is understandable...You continuously contradict yourself....Typical childish behavior...The language you used should get you banned from BF!
Examonlyf,
The Balisong and its use (not talking about flipping) has been a "guarded" area for hundreds of years in order to screen and keep out those who lack the maturity needed to deal with such a serious subject. It is our responsibility to protect children from themselves.
Let this be a lesson for makers, distributors, and moderators.
DONT DEAL WITH CHILDREN!!!
Bill
Hey, Kiem, saying a deal went sour typically means someone did something to make the deal go bad. Which by the amount of posts after that statement means most people didn't belive it would have be Chris.
Saying the deal "didn't go as planned" way in the beginning of the thread would have prevented the whole thing.
Copis: As much as I share your sentiments, I'm more inclined to be optimists and help steer the youngsters in the right direction. We're gonna need the next generation to promote the balisong arts. Don't let one bad apple tainted the efforts of the whole bunch. Those that can't behave, easily identifies themselves to us.
copis you wish you were a moderator....otherwise you can't ban me from the fourms.
If you didn't know i was being sarcastic...your far from being OLD,...you and pete
Not old..
This is true...I'm sure the forum members aren't stupid.
Knives shouldn't be sold to anyone under the age of 15.
Those of us who aren't Moderators have the ability to add you to our Ignore List. Which by this belittling response just added you to mine. You're welcome to add me to yours.Originally posted by AroKiem
copis you wish you were a moderator....otherwise you can ban me from the fourms.
Edited to add:As I mentioned to you recently, I'll say it again:
FYI: Moderators on this forum, unlike Moderators on other forums, don't have the ability to ban people....
Hey everyone, let's relax a bit. Kiem did some stupid stuff and posted some stupid things, but he knows his mistake. He was *very* rightly called on this one - especially since Chris doesn't come onto the internet and can't defend himself here, but now it's done. Let's not do rash things like ban him or leave the forums if he isn't banned. Eh?
Gary W. Graley
“Imagination is more important than knowledge"
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Mar 2, 1999
- Messages
- 27,591
Well Tony...I do appreciate your help! and if you ever need to have her visit you just let me know and I'll see what I can arrange, or maybe you can see her at the Chesapeake show Dec 8th in Baltimore?
G2
Bill Hi
My remarks weren't made at all to influence any sort of reaction to this like yours. I do agree with your sentiments about "Protecting Children".., but if you think it's realistic to keep any sort of edged weapon away from those you define as "Kids"..., I have to disagree. Disagreement isn't anything we get to upset about on here..., and if it was we'd all quit the Forums...lol.As Tony mentioned:
I believe this brief statement does a good job of summarizing how most of us feel on the Forum.., and I would far rather be part of a learning process that occurs whether we like it or not.., than make blanket statement like ~~> DON'T DEAL WITH CHILDREN!
Obviously we will have varied opinions based on our own experiences, but I'd also say that referring to any of the younger guys as "punks" is basically mirroring the behavior we hope to steer maturing folks away from. It is certainly true that not all "Kids" (no matter how one defines the term).., are responsible enough to own or respect any potential weapon, but most younger people here seem to be here to learn, take part, contribute, etc., so I enjoy having all age groups here.
I have to admit I'm headed for the "Confusion Couch" with that statement Copis .., and admittedly I must be misunderstanding you. I've collected Balisongs for 35 years..., taught Martial Arts for 14 years, both full-time in College.., and on the side later..., and still do some Youth Group stuff when I can. I guess I've never framed the essence of the Balisong as a "Guarded Area".., and have never heard it stated that way..., so I assume you are stating something in broad form that I'm not catching..., sorry.
In any case.., this thread should certainly not make anyone leave the Forums.., and I truly don't get that. Kiem getting upset and being disrespectful isn't something new
.., and he'll learn in time that it's not a particulary wise way to deal with people (or not)???That's his call.., but no one here wants anyone banned from the Forums.., and frankly...I'm the one he insulted and my butt is still sore from that impalement he so delicately mentioned...lol.
Let's end this on a positive and comical note and move on....
"Hunters seek what they [WANT].., Seekers hunt what they [NEED]"
Now, now, people.
Let's stick strictly to the facts. The facts have been well-documented here.
Fact #1) AroKiem ordered a custom knife with no deposit.
It is not uncommon for makers to take custom orders with no prepayment and no deposit. But, if you haven't paid anything, then you really have no right to the knife. If you don't pay for it when it's done, then the maker is free to sell it to someone else. After all, the maker has put a lot of money and time into it and he needs to recover that. (This is why many makers don't take deposits. They've got a whole shelf full of $500 knives that people have $100 deposits down on but haven't finished paying for. The maker would rather make the knife at his own expense and then be free to sell it to someone else if the original buyer backs out.)
It varies between makers. I have three very high-end custom balisongs on order right now with three of the greatest knife makers going right now. One demanded 100% pre-paid. The second asked for a 10% deposit. And the third would accept only a handshake.
Makers are as unique as the knives they make.
Fact #2) The knife was not finished when promised.
This is also not uncommon. In fact, I've grown accustomed to it. But, I still think that makers who do this are disrespectful of their customers. But, on the other hand, most makers don't carry much inventory, especially insert materials. So, they have to order stuff in and sometimes their suppliers can add delays.
But, had the knife been finished when it was promised, the transaction would have been completed and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Fact #3) When the knife was finished, AroKiem did not have the money to pay for it.
That's not very good form on his part.
And, as a result, we are having this discussion.
It seems to me that both broke promises and both made mistakes. There's blame on both sides. Arguing about it isn't going to resolve it.
I'd like to remind you all that the major rule here at bladeforums.com (not just in this forum, but site-wide) is "Be nice." It's ok to discuss the facts of the matter, but let's keep the personal attacks and name-calling out.
Let's stick strictly to the facts. The facts have been well-documented here.
Fact #1) AroKiem ordered a custom knife with no deposit.
It is not uncommon for makers to take custom orders with no prepayment and no deposit. But, if you haven't paid anything, then you really have no right to the knife. If you don't pay for it when it's done, then the maker is free to sell it to someone else. After all, the maker has put a lot of money and time into it and he needs to recover that. (This is why many makers don't take deposits. They've got a whole shelf full of $500 knives that people have $100 deposits down on but haven't finished paying for. The maker would rather make the knife at his own expense and then be free to sell it to someone else if the original buyer backs out.)
It varies between makers. I have three very high-end custom balisongs on order right now with three of the greatest knife makers going right now. One demanded 100% pre-paid. The second asked for a 10% deposit. And the third would accept only a handshake.
Makers are as unique as the knives they make.
Fact #2) The knife was not finished when promised.
This is also not uncommon. In fact, I've grown accustomed to it. But, I still think that makers who do this are disrespectful of their customers. But, on the other hand, most makers don't carry much inventory, especially insert materials. So, they have to order stuff in and sometimes their suppliers can add delays.
But, had the knife been finished when it was promised, the transaction would have been completed and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Fact #3) When the knife was finished, AroKiem did not have the money to pay for it.
That's not very good form on his part.
And, as a result, we are having this discussion.
It seems to me that both broke promises and both made mistakes. There's blame on both sides. Arguing about it isn't going to resolve it.
I'd like to remind you all that the major rule here at bladeforums.com (not just in this forum, but site-wide) is "Be nice." It's ok to discuss the facts of the matter, but let's keep the personal attacks and name-calling out.
New development in this situation that could render this fact as inaccurate. I would prefer to not get into a situation of pitting Chris's words to Kiem's words. But there is inconsistencies that indicate one of them isn't telling the whole truth.
