whose warranties cover unintentional abuse/breakage?

[BurkStar]

The first 6 or 7 pages were just irritating, but like people drawn to an accident scene I just kept coming back, now though its getting pretty amusing...c'mon people, don't let this die!!!!!!!

 

[Aniketos]

I removed my post, no point in argueing here anymore....

 

[the45guy]

No they never replaced it as I never sent it in to them. It was given to me for a review in the first place and I would never seek a warrenty replacement on that class of blade. -Cliff

man you are so full of your self. First you claim their warranty aint what they claim then you state you never took advantage of their warranty.

Maybe get yer story straight sometime ? Your tests mean nothing to the rest of us.

You got more excuses that a school girl on prom night.

 

[BurkStar]

"That way they can ban each other, make up, get unbanned, and THEN kiss each other's well proportioned buttocks."

Sounds like you've been banned a time or two...

"each other's well proportioned buttocks"

Also sounds like you've definitely got a fetish there for certain parts of the male anatomy...

 

[canranger]

As someone who sells knives and knows others who sell knives warranties are tricky to pin down as far as knowing what happens to a knife. Granted if the warranty is unconditional so to speak you have set out a rulling but you will charge to cover the percentage of returns after all how many people are going to put it in a vise or take a torch to it. As far as intent goes not too many people actually tell the truth, the common line seems to be someone else did it while they had it or they were using it to do something it should have but just magically snapped.

Personally I have replaced knives that people broke and even bought from another dealer of the same product and they are not $300 knives. In the end intent or not, unconditional or not, if you're using a tool for a purpose that it is not intended for then what hassle you get while trying to claim your warranty is well earned. In all my years of wood working I have never pounded a nail with a wrench and if you want a prybar they cost $20 for a stanely wonder bar best I have ever used.

Abe

 

[rover]

Time for someone to go back to the "other" mall ninja forum (I suspect) where they belong before they hurt themselves. That way they can ban each other, make up, get unbanned, and THEN kiss each other's well proportioned buttocks. By the way; DO NOT play with firearms while you are watching a war movie (especially if you are underage) or play with sharp objects while taking ritalin. Work hard on your paper route this summer and maybe you can own your very own Strider knife (if mommy will let you) to use and carry at the mall in case terrorist ninjas decide to kidnap the teen girls working at the Gap.

Leave the Busses for real men, kids.

I only carry Striders and your mom seemed to think I was plenty of a "real man" last night. Go toss somebody's salad.

 

[Dave Rishar]

Whoa, people...let's slow down here for a second.

There's nothing wrong with brand loyalty. When it comes at the cost of personal attacks - whether those attacks are on knife users or knife makers - then it becomes out of line.

This seems to be going downhill in a hurry. Perhaps we should take a breather? I don't see anything good coming from this new direction.

Again, there's nothing to get worked up over here. If you know that the knife you own is a keeper and a stranger on the internet tells you that it's crap, who are you going to believe?

 

[Cougar Allen]

Gentlebeings, we're talking about knives (and warranties) here -- not about each other.

 

[JDBLADE]

Well this thread has certainly created a “witches brew” and having taken a back seat view of all the posts I think you have reached the stage where the issues raised will not be resolved to the satisfaction of anyone. To my mind the issues raised got away from the original intent of the thread which could have been informative but is no longer relevant.

We all have our favourite brand/s of knife and we all champion their cause whenever we get the chance. That will not change whether it be knives, coffee or cars. But, is it necessary to attack a persons choice in knives just because you don’t like them – you can champion your brands cause without denigrating other brands or their makers.

Now to get to the crux of the matter and here I might put one or more people offside. The socalled “scientific” or “destructive testing” of knives. I put to you if a manufacturer makes certain claims about their knives it is relevant to test those knives up to those claims but to go beyond those claims is not in the best interests of the Knife Industry EG as an ex Knifemaker I made certain claims about my knives and guaranteed them to do certain functions. But, to have someone come along with some scientific testing theory which involves trying to or breaking that knife is not only an insult to my craft and integrity but in my view is ludditism in its worse form.

Manufacturers make certain claims about their products and if the product doesn’t live up to those claims then they should be chastised. But should they be chastised or written down compared to another brand because someone has taken the testing beyond those claims. In my view such testing does nothing for the knife industry or consumer at all.

If there was as set standard for a liner lock eg which states that the lock must not give way under certain conditions then well and good but to my knowledge there are no industry standards for knives as there is for childrens cots or playpens for example. If there was you would probably find that 75% of knives on the market would be withdrawn.

As part of my business I do test reports on many knives and basically this involves cutting ability, edge holding ability, ergonomics and safety under normal conditions relative to the price of the knife. This is what the average knife consumer wants to know. Field testing of knives is also an important part of knife testing and in many cases more relevant to the consumer.

In my view destructive testing of knives does nothing more then feed the egos of those doing the testing and those consumers who seek to denigrate other brands whilst championing their own. If manufacturers wish to do such testing and report upon it then it is fair that any person may seek to verify that testing but again it is not fair for individuals to seek to test a product further then the manufacturers claims.

How would manufacturers like it if the government set up industry standards for knives and let loose a team of public servant boffins to test all knives to those standards. They wouldn’t because it would add significantly to the costs of knives and sales would drop and the knife consumer would be hurt.
Knife consumers today are better off than they were 20 years ago we have so many superior products on the market today provided by many go-ahead individuals and companies that we are spoiled. With the likes of Spyderco, Benchmade, Busse, Strider and many others providing something for everyone why spoil the goodwill that exists in an industry continually being attacked from the outside by attacking from the inside. Of course champion your favourite brand but don’t denigrate others because in reality it will only come back to haunt you.

 

[Aniketos]

I removed my post, no point in argueing here anymore....

 

[Dave Rishar]

For the most part, JDBLADE, I agree with you. I have to disagree with you on one note though.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with destructive testing. I'd prefer it if the manufacturer did it but I'll accept the fact that others do. Here's why:

When I buy my knife, I want to know exactly what it can and can't do. I love surprises as much as the next guy does but I don't want any if I'm in the middle of something serious. Oftentimes I have to take a knife out and thrash it for a while to get to know its limitations; I'd much prefer it if the manufacturer told me, up front, what's kosher and what's not. It would make my shopping much easier. This knife doesn't do it? Fine. I'll find another that will. Will it cost more? Probably, but it should be up to me as the buyer to determine how much I'm willing to pay for what capabilities I'll be receiving. I need information to make this decision. A lot of it.

To be fair, the knife will be tested anyway; I trust nothing that I haven't personally thrashed. But, I'd like to hear it ahead of time that what I'm doing isn't voiding the warranty or going beyond the design parameters of the tool in question.

I really don't like to bring up a manufacturer's name here so I won't, but one manufacturer that I do business with a lot has an inspection policy: when your knife arrives, do this. (Consists of a lot of beating, bending, and pounding.) If anything goes wrong, let them know and send it back as the product should've handled that and it's far rougher than most will ever see in actual useage. They gave me something to go by - I know that the product will do these things without failure. I don't have to guess. If I want to take it further I can, but I have a baseline - I know where the limits are.

Some manufacturers make a product that's less robust than other manufacturers...that's true of every product, not just knives. I'm fine with that. The prices normally (but don't always) reflect this fact. Let's be open with it. I don't need a folder that can pry the door off my car for opening letters - so, tell me that the knife will open letters flawlessly but won't do anything else. Empower me to become a satisfied customer. Don't give me unrealistic expectations.

I'm not aiming the latter part of this at any knife manufacturers; I have yet to purchase a knife that didn't perform as advertised. (In the case of that Frost Cutlery abomination there was no advertising at all, so they were batting 1000 by the time I'd cleaned my fingernails with it.) I'm aiming this at manufacturers in general. Every day I see advertisements on TV showing various SUV's doing the equivalent of the Baja, yet the fine print at the bottom of the screen essentially says, "Don't do this you fool, it's just advertising." Most of these same SUV's aren't made for jumping sand dunes and I feel that it's irresponsible to depict them as being able to do so in ads. Instead, tell us consumers what it can and can't do. We're not as dumb as most think. We'll decide what we need and, yes, some of us will opt for the cheapie because that's all we need and the price is right.

But the rest of your post? Spot on. I know the knives that I carry and use are good - I tested them. You, Cliff, or anyone else can tell me that they're not and I'll laugh...I've already proven the case to myself. They do everything I need them to do. (Even that Frost Cutlery crime against humanity.) I won't sweat it when others badmouth them...the product will speak for itself.

Knifemakers make their own reputations; word of mouth merely spreads it. You know that what you have is good. Let the other guy know how good it is and leave it be. He'll come around eventually.

 

[wolfmann601]

My CS Voyager has done similar things; it never cleared pot plants but it has been batoned through wood. It never cut a tire off a tractor but it did saw through the tire on my Toyota. (Including the belt.) It has done more than this as well. After a year of my torments, the teeth on the serrations were pretty beat up.

I did what I'd been meaning to do for nearly a year - I took the thing to the belt sander and ground off the serrations. It's now halfway through its second year of duty. I'm expecting it to make it to three. I will be surprised if it doesn't go beyond this.

I'm knocking neither you nor Strider, Wolfmann...I'm merely stating that this is not what I expect of a high end knife. This is what I expect of every knife. If a $50 dollar one can do it, a $300+ had better be able to do it.

I don't own a Strider and don't expect to in the near future due to the price, but I'm certainly not discounting them. If their warranty is indeed what it claims to be, I may be a customer sometime in the future. In fact, I have to say that I'm intrigued by Mick Strider's enthusiasm. When (or if) the old Voyager gives up the ghost, I just may be contacting him.

I don't care about blade steel, lock configuration, or blade shape - this doesn't matter to me. I'm not a knifemaker. I'm a knife user. If little elves come out of the knife every time I unfold it and do the work for me I'm fine with that, as long as it does what I want it to do, when I want it to do it, at a price that I consider reasonable as compared to its lifespan.

Some of us are a bit hard on Cliff. That's understandable - he doesn't pull punches when it comes to stating his opinions. If he's not pleased with my knife of choice, I'm not worried about it; after all, I have mine and I know it's better than what he claims it to be. His loss is my gain. On the other end of the spectrum, I'd rather have someone else buying and breaking knives so that I don't have to. Cliff's opinion is not law. It's one man's opinion. It should be read, noted, weighed as appropriate and considered as necessary. It means as much or as little as I want it to. Consequently, while we may deride such unscientific tests as hacking up wood or prying boards apart, that's how knives are sometimes used. It's not scientific but it is applicable to some folks. I've never used a hydraulic press to drive a knife through a steel plate. Scientific, yes...but does this apply to me? Again, this is yet another source of information to be studied and given consideration. It is not the final word, and neither is Cliff's testing. It's just something to think about.

Some of us are rather hard on Frost Cutlery. (The bad one.) I got one from a friend simply for evaluation - I wanted to know why they were so bad. Granted, I had to dig through 10 of them before I found one with a lock that functioned correctly; also, I have to resharpen it after each day of use and it flexes alarmingly when used for prying, but other than this, it works. ("Works," meaning, every time that I used it for a task, it successfully performed it - from cutting fabric to breaking down ammo crates.) It's survived three weeks of my abuse already, surpassing several brand name knives that I've owned that have a better reputation and cost considerably more. Is it a good knife? No. It's a piece of junk. I have better things to do with my time than spending twenty minutes each night resharpening a knife...but it did its job for about $1.50, bulk price. There's a lesson in this.

As I said, the "how" is not important. I just want to know if it "will." The specifics, to me, are not relevant. I'll let the professionals handle that part.

True, however none offer the same warranty and none the same reliability for me. This is extremely important [again, insert "for me"]

My current EDC is a Spyderco ATR. I carry and use it daily and it ranks right up there with the big guns and has a warranty that is fair for this knife user.

And that is all that matters in the final analysis. My expectation is that should a knife fail and the failure is manufacturer [Maker] faulted, I expect a replacement.

Now, where is my popcorn and cut pot plants.....................

 

[Aniketos]

I removed my post, no point in argueing here anymore....

 

[Aniketos]

I removed my post, no point in argueing here anymore....

 

[Josh Muller]

Just a FYI... the knife you tested wasent even a knife that passed through Micks hands. You tested a buck-strider.

Also, I am surprised at the level of maturity you showed for someone who is so much into the scientific side of knife making.

so summing up this post... please give us all an answer cliff as to why you have such a problem with Strider, not Buck-strider... but Strider. Please do not use the same recycled post again for the 10th time.... give us the real reason why.

cliff has tested the wb and a pab. he has tested 2 versions of the wb, old and new.

Our warrantee is simple.
If you are dissatisfied, we will do what we can to make it right. If you break a knife, we’ll replace it. If we WONT replace it, (because you’re an idiot) we WILL give you back your money. Period!

To all Cliff Stamps out there:

Hmmm... Which part of 'if you break it, we'll replace it' don't you understand? ...

mick says directly after "if you break a knife, we'll replace it." that they will under certain circumstances not replace the knife (rather, they will give a refund). if your implying that strider will always replace their knives when broken by a user, and that anyone who doesnt understand that should understand it, thats not the case. personally i think its a good policy (if not replaced, then refund).

man you are so full of your self. First you claim their warranty aint what they claim then you state you never took advantage of their warranty.

Maybe get yer story straight sometime ? Your tests mean nothing to the rest of us.

You got more excuses that a school girl on prom night.

sans the flame portion of the post, i enjoy cliffs reviews and testing greatly, and consider them a source of educational empirical data. may not agree with parts of them, but i dont have to, they're still educational. from what cliff said, i beleive that he has attempted to use their warrantee before. the specific knife wich he stated that he didnt take advantage of the warrantee on were blades given to him for the purpose of testing.

:

If you’d like, I’ll stand side by side with you in a “Live” comparative demonstration with one of our relatively inexpensive Swamp Rat blades, and vastly outperform ANY Strider CPM S30V blade in cutting, impact strength, lateral toughness, etc. . .

Jerry Busse
Busse Combat Knife Co.

to my knowledge, no ones taken up his offer yet (not being specific to strider).

yeah we can put the Busse folder up against the AR...oh wait what Busse folder ??

I have no problems with Busse knives... they are great knives from what I hear. In Striders defense however... MOST of the people on this forum buy Busse and keep them locked in a safe all day. They trade them like comic books. Most of the people buying Striders are using them. One thing I would like to know as well.... where is the Busse folder?

to both - it isnt in production yet, im not sure what the purpose of bringing it up is? people buy both brands for the purpose of collecting, likewise there are people who buy both for hard use. i've pried open several back windows with my busse, and i would have done the same had it been a strider on my belt. likewise i probably would have traded around my striders " like comic books" until i settled on a model i liked best - there are enough variations in each brand to allow for this.

 

[Aniketos]

I removed my post, no point in argueing here anymore....

 

[Cougar Allen]

All of Cliff's test results are available on his website: http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/knives/index.html

 

[TheBadGuy]

If you’d like, I’ll stand side by side with you in a “Live” comparative demonstration with one of our relatively inexpensive Swamp Rat blades, and vastly outperform ANY Strider CPM S30V blade in cutting, impact strength, lateral toughness, etc. . .

There is the most fair test of all. Way better than sending two knives off to a testing center. The founders of both knife companies side by side, putting their wares through there paces.

I think that would cement my plans to be at Blade this year for sure

 

[zinn1348]

Busse's and Striders and Mad Dogs, OH MY!

 

[Ken Brock]

I've owned Busse, Strider, Mad Dog and a lot of other high-end knives.

I currently only have the Striders

I'm not a kid

I have a job where my knives get used.

I didn't need some person to "test" them and form an opinion for me. I have a brain that works and I formed my own opinion.