whose warranties cover unintentional abuse/breakage?

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Hi Cliff. The customer pays for the warrantee.........one way or another.

to think otherwise is open to question. ;)

sal
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi Cliff. The customer pays for the warrantee.........one way or another.

to think otherwise is open to question. ;)

sal
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Due to similar reasoning, the word "free" used to be barred from Bell System Yellow Pages advertisements. "No additional charge" was allowed.
 
I read here somewhere, that the STrider warranty is only for the first blade. If you send one in that's been busted due to abuse, they'll send you a new one but marked so you won't get another replacement blade
 
brownshoe said:
I read here somewhere, that the STrider warranty is only for the first blade. If you send one in that's been busted due to abuse, they'll send you a new one but marked so you won't get another replacement blade
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I think that is if you break the knife intentionally.
 
brownshoe said:
I read here somewhere, that the STrider warranty is only for the first blade. If you send one in that's been busted due to abuse, they'll send you a new one but marked so you won't get another replacement blade
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That is only if it is decided that the knife had been abused in both instances. If it is determined to be a manufacturer defect issue, Strider will replace the knife under warranty as often as it takes to get you a knife that isn't defective.
 
Why not just use the right tool for the job? Knives aren't prybars, last I checked. Nor are they chisels for concrete. I work construction and ornamental iron, I'm hard as can be on a knife, and what do I carry? An Opinel 6 or a Queen 11. Thin and sharp. I don't care if they can pry.
 
Sword and Shield said:
Why not just use the right tool for the job? Knives aren't prybars, last I checked. Nor are they chisels for concrete. I work construction and ornamental iron, I'm hard as can be on a knife, and what do I carry? An Opinel 6 or a Queen 11. Thin and sharp. I don't care if they can pry.
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because very, very few people carry a prybar into the wilderness when they go for long term camping. because your not likely to have a prybar on you within reach when you get in a car crash. because the one time you ever need a prybar in your life, right now, this second, you wont have one.
 
People will generally carry what they like, what's comfortable, what works with their mode of dressing and what meets their cutting chores. This is rarely some big honking battle blade of around 3/16" stock or better perpetually strapped to their side with the thought of one day, they might need to pry something.
 
Cliff, Does the warrantee, in your opinion make one product worth more than another?

In studying warrantees of many manufacturers we'ved learned most have their "out". It seems, in my opinion, unconditional warrantees are never unconditional.

sal
 
Sal Glesser said:
Cliff, Does the warrantee, in your opinion make one product worth more than another?

In studying warrantees of many manufacturers we'ved learned most have their "out". It seems, in my opinion, unconditional warrantees are never unconditional.

sal
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I know you asked Cliff, but I figured I'd add my $0.02, this being the Internet and the S/N ratio being as low as it is. ;)

I will pay extra for a "more" unconditional warranty than a "less" unconditional warranty.

I will pay yet more for a product from a company without an "unconditional" warranty who has historically been shown publically to actually make good on claims, regardless if the claim is more ludicrous or more practical. In some ways, it allows me to use the device rather than baby it, and as all my devices are for use, I am more comfortable with it.

It also suggests that the company does not hesitate to stand behind its product and implies a higher standard of quality control.

I understand the need for policy to dictate a less liberal warranty on paper and yet actually be more flexible in deciding whether to conduct W&R service on a product. I also understand that all such products in discussion have a limited lifetime.

If it were a $800 custom knife, a $200 pen or a $3000 camera, I would expect there to be no limit on the lifetime of the knife (much less a warranty tied to the original owner, which IMHO, is a totally bull5h1+ loophole and which I detest.) But for a $100 production knife? Sure, there's a limited life on it.

This does not mean that repairs or service made to the device should be free -- I don't mind paying some fraction of the original purchase price for significant repairs given that they were a result of my abuse of the item and not manufacturing flaws (i.e. heat treat errors, press-fit items that cause hairline fractures, improperly cut lock faces etc., etc.), but I do expect it to be a fraction.

Just my $0.02.

-j
 
Boink said:
People will generally carry what they like, what's comfortable, what works with their mode of dressing and what meets their cutting chores. This is rarely some big honking battle blade of around 3/16" stock or better perpetually strapped to their side with the thought of one day, they might need to pry something.
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i carry a slicer knife and a prybar knife. mine both just happen to be 5"+ blades, one on each hip. they dont have to be, i could have gone with lms's at 3" each and had the same level of safety.

i intend to use my 1/4" saber ground as a prybar - it is the right tool for the job. it is designed to do what i intend to do with it - pry things apart and be the wedge between a rock and hard place if need be. it gets old when people say "carry the right tool for the job" when thats what the tool is designed for. there are reasons to carry "prybar knives" even if its not for you. yes, it can be silly to try to force knives that are in a different catagory (m2 nimravus) to do what the geometry of a strider mt (low saber ground 1/4" thickness (mine was of that geometry when i had it)) would suggest it to be able to do (pry, be beaten on etc). but when you buy a knife that was designed to take serious abuse (hard impacts, extremely heavy prying, throwing into a gorge, whatever messed up situation it happens to be in), to the extent that it for-go's the ability to cut well or even servicable - it is the right tool for the job.


from what ive read swamp rat has one of the only full unconditional warrantee's on fixed blade knives. it is in essence the same as crafstmans tool warrantee (on all non moving part tools); if you think it should be replaced, it will be. they dont have it on their folder because it would be to much of a monetary drag. but their fixed blades have no "out" on their warrantee. im sure it is a severe pain in the neck at moments, but they hold to it.

warrantee's are worth more when you need them. if i have a choice between a tool that will break under considerably heavier abuse then a tool that is gaurenteed to break earlier but has a lifetime warrantee, i would rather have the tool that is stronger sans warrantee. a warrantee is a customer service, it doesnt necessarily describe the ability of the tool that is under warrantee.
 
Sal Glesser said:
Does the warrantee, in your opinion make one product worth more than another?l
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It has value, not of course the only aspect. Personally all I want is a knife which is guaranteed to do what it is promoted to do.


Aniketos said:
Some of you guys are bitching around just to make useless arguements. Strider, Busse, etc.. this small group of elite knife makers all have the same warranty.
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No they don't. You can void the Strider warrenty by attempting to duplicate the claims they make and damaging the knife.

If Bill from HI imports says you can do something with a khukuri and you try it and fail, you don't get branded an idiot, you don't get marked blades. It just gets replaced as obviously something was wrong with that one as you didn't get the guaranteed performance.

-Cliff
 
Warranties are a bit difficult. Most companies declare one for all.

I personally would prefer special for special knifes. In a way Cliff had said: If there are beefy knifes coming out i would be glad if the maker / manufacturer would say what extra than cutting i will buy. Exept this it makes no difference considering warranty to buy a thin bladed knife or a pry bar like the Chinook.

There was a review of the Chinook, telling us, that it was heavyly used...

I would like to know if Spyderco / Sal supports that considering the whole blade profile or not.

Seldom a EDC is used just for cutting. Most times a EDC knife is a kind of multi purpose tool if nothing is at hand. If warranty is just reduced on cutting, what about stabbing?

Something like: "We designed that knife to do this and that and by our craftmenship, material, dimensions of the blade you shall use it that way. We will not cover thing like intentional destruction or damages because of any kind of taking part in a competition. It designed for your personal use as a tool and not for showing of."

That sounds much better than "Knives are designed for cutting." :yawn:

I mean german laws say, the manufacturer or dealer has to proof, that it was abused inbetween the first half year after purchase. Nice thing b/c it´s hard to proof that if you were not around if the damage ocures. Other hand: The customer has some better chance to check out where the border of performance is, personal or the knife.
 
Have you ever read one of those advertisements that says that, "If you are not completely satisfied with our product, send it back and your money will cheerfully be refunded"? We all hope for something like that when we excercise our right under warranty or complain about a product failure. What reduces the value of a warranty close to nil, is if we take a lot of abuse or have to jump through a lot of hoops to excercise our warranty. We really do hope the manufacturer or store will be "cheerful" if not apologetic about our problem. Since Cliff gets some of his knives free for review he is not in a position to ask for his money back or even demand a replacement. He is not even in the position to complain that he was given a bad knife. He is in a position to report what happened and to ask if the manufacturer thinks this is a fluke or somehow a result of pilot error. If the manufacturer has promoted the blade as being able to handle the type of use that induced failure he can ask if they would like him to try with another blade. He can ask if they would normally replace the blade under warranty under these circumstances, but he can't actually test their response since he is not a regular customer.

What he does test is how they respond to public questioning of their product claims. That isn't really the same thing as how they respond to a normal warranty claim. What he can testify to is that many makers are not very "cheerful" when a reviewer fails to validate their claims. What they say about warranties under the circumstances can't be taken at face value since the interaction has gotten heated by that point. The heat greatly undermines his confidence in their goodwill and commitment to customer satisfaction.
 
Hi Blop.

"There was a review of the Chinook, telling us, that it was heavyly used...

I would like to know if Spyderco / Sal supports that considering the whole blade profile or not".


We try to handle potential abuse problems on a case by case. If we feel that the problem was a manufacturing defect, we'll replace the knife. If we feel the customer was using the knife beyond its design capability, we'll charge for the repair.

sal
 
Jeff Clark said:
He is in a position to report what happened and to ask if the manufacturer thinks this is a fluke or somehow a result of pilot error.

[snip]

What he does test is how they respond to public questioning of their product claims.
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This is the main intended use of the reviews, it was never to provide the last word on the knife, but to provide a reference point mainly for discussion with makers. To give some specific tasks and performance data to allow meaningful questions.'

Even for the knives I have bought which is the majority, I have actually asked for a warrenty replacement on very few, a minor percentage of the cases, usually because I know that damage is going to set in. I only ask for a warrenty issue when the knife fails at something I think it should have been able to do because of the promotion.

-Cliff
 
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