whose warranties cover unintentional abuse/breakage?

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Cliff Stamp said:
Where do you guys learn this stuff? Lets assume a probe brought back one sample of rock from mars, do you really think nothing could be learned from it because it is only one sample. No scientific research could be done on it? Lots of research is done on one sample (consider fossils for example, you find one it spawns a whole host of research).

For those curious, larger samples allow you to bound predictions, so instead of saying XXX knife bent to 25 degrees, you can say the mean sample bend was 22-27 degrees with a 95% CI. The bigger the sample the more information you can learn of course. I have tested multiple knives on many occasions, and will readily provide CI if makers/manufacturers want to provide large samples.

-Cliff
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We learned it from the countless times we have tested knives and bayonets for the Department of Defense. They seem to call us alot.

One sample equals one test. How can you test deflection and point strength on the same sample? Each test must go to failure in order to meet DOD requirements.

There are very strict guidelines on milspec testing. We have a number of engineers who sole job is RDT and MILSPEC testing.

Like I said we have been doing it here for a very long time.

Now if you want to do your own "independent" tests, I think that's great. As long as you are completely forward about who you are and what your credentials and or associations might be. And remeber their are companies out there that have been doing this a long time.

A little more about Strider,

All of the knives issued to MCSOCOM DET 1 (Strider SMF) were used extensively in IRAQ and not one was in need of repair. I have yet to see a stronger folder, and we test many.

If you have a bone to pick with them over their perceived feelings towards you than call them and handle it.

You are welcome to visit our facility anytime and see how one of Americas oldest brands handles its testing. You can also see if DOD calls you for your opinion the next time they outfit their top shooters with some knives, I would invite you, but I don't know if you could get on base.

- Josh

P.S. Our new facility is in Post Falls, Idaho
 
J Rummerfield said:
How can you test deflection and point strength on the same sample?
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You can't test multiple breaking points on the same knife. As noted in the above, more knives would allow more information. However there is does not mean it is not scientific to only report one of them.

-Cliff
 
Billman said:
whose warranties cover anything and everything that is unintentional? you break it in hard, abusive use and they replace it. I'm not talking about intentionally destroying a knife just to do it.
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Back to the original question, although this is an interesting thread.
I unintentionally broke one of my Strider folders. I am a firefighter and carry a Strider on duty every day. I had an SnG clipped in my pocket when I hopped out of the engine. Somehow, I managed to hook the pocket clip on something in the engine during my egress, and ripped it off the knife. I jumped out so it was my falling body weight of 160 pounds that did it. I talked to Mick and offered to pay for the repairs since it was my own carelessness that caused it. He said "no way are you paying for that", send it in. So I did and a week later it came back good as new. So there you go. 1 unintentionally broken Strider, fixed at no charge, and turned around in less than a week. I'll be a loyal customer so long as they continue to grind steel.
John...
 
Hi Josh. Now I'm intrigued.

Would you be so kind as to describe the type of testing you do and how you do them?

Would you also be so kind as to share your qualifications?

Could you arrange for me to visit your testing facility in Post Falls, Idaho?

thanx,

sal
 
Mongo-man said:
IIRC from my statistics classes about 600 samples before you get a valid statistical number with linear regression.
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Most regression data has no where near that number. In my field the numbers are usually less than ten, and frequently below five for linear. You actually only need three for CI estimates, one more than the order of the regression model. You would only want that high a number if the population variance was huge and the outlier probability extremely high. If a maker actually demanded this it would mean he is saying his QC is extremely horrible.

-Cliff
 
Mongo-man said:
Say Blood sugar levels, taken from 600 people from different race, age and sex.
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Yes, people are highly variable and thus your sample needs a large number in order to be normally distributed. Essentially your standard deviation in the mean goes as one over the square root of the sample size times the standard deviation of the sample.

For knives you would expect the standard deviation in the knives to be small and thus the sample size would only need to be very small to allow highly confident predictions. Of course for low end knives you would want high sample sizes, as it is QC dependent.

-Cliff
 
Mongo-man said:
Nitrox , same happened to me with a Spyderco Yojimbo, Sal send me a new redesigned sturdier clip with screws for free, because i was hesitant to send it into W&R!
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Cudos to Sal and spyderco. To me, that is the "spirit" of an unconditional warranty. Even if a company doesn't have an official policy concerning these things, if they take care of them for their customers, word gets around and folks become ardent supporters of that company/product.

John...
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi Josh. Now I'm intrigued.

Would you be so kind as to describe the type of testing you do and how you do them?

Would you also be so kind as to share your qualifications?

Could you arrange for me to visit your testing facility in Post Falls, Idaho?

thanx,

sal
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I am sure we would all be honored to have you visit. I will let you know when the new factory quality area is up and running.

I am in the San Diego office (Military and Government Sales) and would definately make the trip up if you were coming to town.

Qualifications- I head up Buck's Tactical Division. Buck's engineering staff has a wide variety of backgrounds and extensive experience in the knife industry.

As far as testing questions,

Shoot me an e-mail

joshr@buckknives.com

Pleasure Speaking with you,

-Josh
 
Aniketos said:
John, I am in the same boat as you dude... as long as Mick makes knives( duane too) I will buy their knives. Once you own a Strider... you dont go to anything else. I played with a friends spyderco the other day, and I also handled my Benchmade again tonite. They seem like TOYS compared to the Strider folders.
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Thanks for your honesty.
 
Aniketos said:
I played with a friends spyderco the other day, and I also handled my Benchmade again tonite. They seem like TOYS compared to the Strider folders.
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There are lots of different types of each, Spyderco has folders with locks which are much more secure and strong than Striders.The Strider blades are much stronger, but it takes little force to break the locks so it isn't a functional gain.

-Cliff
 
Aniketos said:
You obviously have something against Strider...
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Yes, as it is obvious that no one could make a more secure or durable lock than a liner. Obviously compression, ball, axis, or even lock backs don't actually exist, just figments of my imagination.

I trivially broke a Buck/Strider and Mick commented that the knives were not designed to take torques such as I applied, torques which many Spyderco's and Benchmades can readily handle.

Those are the facts, his statements can be read here on Bladeforums. Liners and integrals have known security and strength issues which are not problems with compression, axis, and lockbacks, nor ball locks, etc. .

-Cliff
 
The Marines who used them in Iraq seemed to like them alot.

The other lock systems you mentioned are great as well. Everyone has there favorite. We at Buck have some experience with the lockback, and seem to have sold quite a few since we started making them in the early sixties.

My personal favorite is the framelock like on Strider's SnG amd SMF, never used a more sturdy folding knife and I carried many types while in the Marines.

Framelocks, when gripped by a strong hand, are held even more securely by the users hand pressing the lockbar in place. No small corroding parts (small springs etc.) are used as in some types of locks that can degrade and fail.

Every lock type can fail, I can do it in a few seconds with any folder. That's why its always smart to use a tool properly.

Again,

MCSOCOM picked what they thought was the best folder out there, I agree with them.

This doesn't mean every other folder is inferior, its just opinion.

If you don't like Striders, don't buy them, just more for the rest of us
 
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