Why Does Everyone Think 1095 is Tough?

[James Starr]

Interestingly enough, when you get to professional environments, they don't use any "super steels". The Amish here won't have anything to do with stainless knives let alone super steels. They use 1095, and the butchers around here use a simple stainless that can be steeled and sharpened from time to time.

What's missing from 1095 is that it takes skill to make it well at reasonably high hardness, and it can warp in the quench and crack a fair amount.

Wait, I'm not sure we have the same idea of a professional environment. What about high speed steels used in machining and manufacturing? Or a sushi chef who insists on a blue label the hitachi steel lovingly forged into his kiritsuki? I respect the Amish for their hard work and ethics, but their professional environment is not the standard by which professional environments are judged. By your logic, a buggy is faster and tougher than a bullet train. 1095 is a good steel and it has a lot of appropriate applications in which it excels. It just isn't very tough by modern standards.

 

[D-weaver]

The amish and mennonite do production work. We're not talking about someone butchering a pig each year. They're a good comparison for us as they're working in environments that are more normal than what we'd think of (a meat packing plant), and often with dirty animals. I haven't asked them why they like 1095, but I'm sure it has to do with the practical aspect that you can make it sharp quickly, and when something breaks, you can grind it quickly.

As far as high speed steel, I'm kind of wondering what's relevant about high speed steel. It's intended to work well at high heat. What are we doing, splitting burning wood? I'm wondering what you think is much different between hitachi steel and 1095. White is an awful lot like 1095 and blue is probably not too dissimilar from 52100 or something with a small amount of alloying (I looked it up, it's got a little bit of tungsten). None of that stuff is remotely similar to 3V, let alone anything "tougher". It's more like one of the early attempts to add tungsten and a little bit of Mn and chromium in the early 1900s.

I think what's most well liked by the modern steels is that people will pay $200 for a knife with $30 of steel in it whereas they'd pay $75 for one with a more plain steel that takes more skill to get right. In the hand tool world in woodworking, A2 became all the rage. It's barely more long wearing than O1, it grinds less well and doesn't like certain stones (hates some novaculite stones and bits will come out of the edge). But people manufacturing the irons love it because of its shape and volume stability. That doesn't offer much for the end user, it solves a problem for the manufacturer. It costs enough more to recover the cost of the metal, let alone netting against that the reduced follow-up surfacing.

I think the big win for knife makers here is to take users' eye off the ball about geometry and sharpening proficiency and make them believe that steels made for industrial environments are needed for blades to do cutting.

I tested 3V for woodworking tools against a bunch of others. There's nothing wrong with it (woodworking is generally an exercise in cutting, much like butchering, etc - chiseling and carving are straight in adventures, not angling and twisting or anything like that - in fact, you'd be criticized for doing any such thing as it's detrimental to efficiency).

Last I checked, most people here talking about slapping the lips on barrels aren't remotely close to a trained sushi chef, but you'll note again that in order to talk about what sushi chef's are doing, you have to go back to the point made earlier - it's a slicing thing, toughness doesn't come into the picture. Keeping a fine edge and refreshing reasonably well are more important. White 1 and 2 and blue 1 and 2 are popular in woodworking tools for the same reason. The "tougher" steels generally don't get much play - they're a nuisance in the cycle of real work.

 

[Spears]

Thank you. I'm afraid I even lost track of my original question. I think you answered it very well.

Thanks, I appreciate it. Going off topic is part of the fun but it's always good to go back to the original debate. Hope I didn't come off as facetious because that was not my intent.

I stand corrected. I am often wrong, but that doesn't stop me from being a smart ass, lol.

I wouldn't have believed it until I saw it. Then again, corrosion resistance is another measurable characteristic of a steel. I don't know if there is recorded data on it. Side note: surface finish can have an affect on corrosion resistance, as well.

Larrin had a great article about how even nitrogen based steels, which are measurably more stainless than carbon based because there can be a higher percentage of free Cr at a lower Cr content, can still have their corrosion resistance measurably affected by heat treat.

I was taught under the "Use The Right Tool For The Job" and the "Finesse and Skill Beats Brute Force" schools.

This 1000%.

As far as if 1095 is the right material for those rough-tough-going knives, eh... I don't think so. They're are far better base materials *cough* AEB-L *cough* that can be used to ensure better cutting performance (geometry) and edge longevity (alloying components) for not that much more in cost while also being a bit more low maintenance, since they're stainless, and having equal or better toughness.

Interestingly enough, when you get to professional environments, they don't use any "super steels". The Amish here won't have anything to do with stainless knives let alone super steels. They use 1095, and the butchers around here use a simple stainless that can be steeled and sharpened from time to time.

What's missing from 1095 is that it takes skill to make it well at reasonably high hardness, and it can warp in the quench and crack a fair amount.

This is another example of an association fallacy. The fact they they use it and it works for them is fine. However, regardless, "toughness" is a intrinsic property that can be defined and measured. This is kinda of how the sentiment that 1095 is a tough steel is perpetuated when it is measurably not a tough steel relative to other steels at similar hardness.

Additionally, you can't skirt around chemistry. Composition matters. 1095 is a simple steel with very little other alloying elements that can contribute to measurable difference in properties. There is a ceiling that 1095 will hit and that might be the floor of more alloyed steels at the lower range of their heat treat protocols. You can HT 1095 to perfection, but it still won't be measurably as tough or more wear resistance as 3V at it's lowest recommended hardness (heck, annealed S110V is likely tougher and more wear resistant the the best heat treated 1095). Whether those difference actually matter in the real world, well, that's a different discussion.

Like you stated before, I think a big part of the attraction towards simpler steels is that they can be more easily sharpened. However, I'd argue that with modern diamond hones, medium alloyed steels like 3V could be just as easily sharpened.

Any reason why the Amish there are so averse to stainless steels? It's less maintenance with certain SS and you can get the exact same performance and ease of sharpenability.

Also, not sure if this thread has been referenced.

 

[D-weaver]

They tend to work pretty fast, actually (the amish) despite backwards stories. They generally have a good disposition and can go into heavy work mode without issue. As to why they generally like 1095 vs. anything else for butchering, they probably like that it grinds easily and is very even. I don't think anyone makes a good thin butcher knife in AEB-L for anything close to the price of the ontario 1095 knives.

For woodworking, I found simpler steels are generally better for me (I do a lot of woodworking from rough to finish just with hand tools). I even did a durability test and found M4 and XHP to be the longest wearing of the steels that I used (high carbide count and good high hardness without being fragile lead to wins in those tests. I used 3V in one with a bos heat treated plane blade, but the spec ordered was 61 on the c scale and it came back 59 - I guess they're just so used to that). XHP was at about 63 and M4 was 64.

In a standardized test, all of those blew away oil hardened steels. When it gets to actually doing woodwork, the plainer steels (O1 and older cast steel) are much tougher at the fine edge for some reason. If the damage gets larger, maybe the story changes (I can trim brass and wood junctions with a high speed steel chisel, but the same chisel lets go of its fine edge earlier - we generally work with angles around 30 degrees, so the higher vanadium steels with large carbides are out -they leave little lines all over work).

At any rate, after doing the standardized test, I found keeping all of the little nicks out of XHP a pain because removing a couple of thousandths of steel all the time is a pain. The plainer steels seemed to be tougher (XHP isn't that tough, but again, the cast steel irons seem to do the best for reasons I couldn't guess - they're not soft by any means to gain toughness). The M4 and 3v irons went back to their respective owners. The desire of 3V to really hold on to a burr when you are going to sharpen 6 or 8 times in a given shop session is a huge pain. M4 sharpened nicely (these are all PMs, not the pre-PM versions), but had more friction in the cut than the other irons and probably cost a moon - a dedicated woodworker may have four bench planes, but a whole bunch of others - perhaps with a hundred irons - M4 isn't practical for that).

When it comes down to it, after all of that, I found ease of sharpening more important as long as an iron wasn't absolute trash - to keep ahead of small nicks and bits, and 3V or anything else takes about twice as long to sharpen, even with diamonds (which you don't have to resort to with cast steel or O1) - just because you have to deal with the burr, etc. Even on diamond, 3v grinds half as fast as harder O1 (thus hones the same amount half as fast) - all of the supposed advantages are negated by screwing around honing and getting cornered into using a specific abrasive.

That long explanation boils down to my guess that the amish can get a 1095 knife and pretty much keep it sharp with a whisper of sharpening here or there, and it's not a nuisance to deal with a burr and no need for prissy sharpening stones that need flattening or this or that. It sharpens on anything and grinds well on hard low maintenance stones.

 

[D-weaver]

by the way, this isn't an association fallacy - they use 1095 for just about everything. Nobody said anything about toughness. there's a huge fascination with toughness in most knife circles, but I think it's a cliquey sales point. I don't know where 1095's toughness would be challenged in butchering. This isn't forged in fire or some fake scenario - the knife cuts skin and meat. A saw cuts bone.

What's even a little more strange is that forum members who spend their days reading charts and sharpening knives used in contrived scenarios shoot barbs at groups who are actually using the knives heavily and not for a made-up purpose or a contest.

 

[BluntCut MetalWorks]

I am making quite a few test blades for a R&D goal. 1095 is among steels candidate. What hard working tasks/abuses would these 2 1095 blades end up with visible(naked eyes) damages - you think/guess?

Perhaps I could make a video - seeing them in actions and results (raw footage). Why? Providing an instance of either confirm or falsify posted deductions/generalizations in many pages about 1095.

 

[afishhunter]

I am making quite a few test blades for a R&D goal. 1095 is among steels candidate. What hard working tasks/abuses would these 2 1095 blades end up with visible(naked eyes) damages - you think/guess?

Perhaps I could make a video - seeing them in actions and results (raw footage). Why? Providing an instance of either confirm or falsify posted deductions/generalizations in many pages about 1095.

15 DPS will be the better slicer. Why? Thinner blade stock and less obtuse edge angle.
I recall "back in the day" most knives with 1095 (W.R. Case, for one) had 10 DPS out of the box (20 degrees inclusive), and the sharpening instructions that came with the knife said to hold the blade at 10 degrees to the stone.

 

[James Starr]

Regardless of other's opinion, I do consider batoning abuse. Most manufacturers do as well, since batoning voids the warranty just like using the knife as a screwdriver and prybar does.
In over 60 years of using my knife in the boonies, not once have I had cause to baton my knife.
Truth to tell, prior to coming to Blade Forums, I'd never heard of it. No one I knew batoned their knife. Reading their books, Nessmuk, Kephart, and Kreps never batoned their knives. The 1911 (first year published) and later Boy Scout Handbooks, do not mention batoning. (None of the aforementioned gentleman, and the BSA chop with their knives, either.) No one "back in the day" batoned their knife. Not the "Mountain Man"/Professional hunters/trappers, Explorers, Settlers, Soldiers, Scouts, "Cowboys", Missionaries, or the Natives.

Knives are a tool for cutting and slicing. Not felling trees or "processing firewood". Strangely enough, I've always been able to find firewood that didn't need splitting, and plenty of dry grass/leaves/moss, twigs, and other materials for kindling, around the camp site. I also carried a supply oh hemp or other not cotton string.

I was taught under the "Use The Right Tool For The Job" and the "Finesse and Skill Beats Brute Force" schools.

There are a lot of jobs/tasks out in the sticks and boonies, that a knife is the correct tool. However, felling a tree, limbing, and "processing firewood" are not numbered among them. Honestly, there are more jobs/tasks in the sticks and boonies were a knife is the wrong tool than it is the right tool.

You want to, or feel you "have" to baton to be doing "bushcraft" "properly"?
Great! Get a froe, beat your axe/hatchet/tomahawk, or if you didn't pack one in, make and use a wedge.

Answer this question honestly:
SCINARIO:
Lets say you're two or three days out from the nearest civilization, and/or your vehicle. You're alone; No one came with you. You're on foot. No ATV, no cellphone coverage, etc.. You're "on your own."
It just started to snow, the temperature is dropping rapidly, along with a significant increase in wind speed, from a breeze to a gale.
You manage to get your tent up.

For whatever reason, you baton with your knife to "process/split your firewood", and it breaks on the first strike. Now you got no knife, and no fire.

What you going to do?

So, as steel evolves and improvements are made, it becomes more versatile and we find new ways to utilize the advances made. Some people said cars are for transportation, not racing. They were short sighted. And survival isn't reality. And this isn't a thread about batonning. But to answer your question, I'd make do with a my reprofiled cleaver.

 

[BluntCut MetalWorks]

As pictured, this 15dps 1095 64.5-65rc rough handle knife went through a 20 minutes chopping session. Full swing chopped: 2x4, dried eucalyptus, rosewood, misc. Tap/gentle chopped dried cow femur bone. Sure, it would supports 10dps working edge for non-impact usages. If I don't end up destroy this blade, it will become a thin(would be grind thinner) nakiri.

The 63rc 1095 is actually sharpened for cutting mild steel rod. Here is a last month video of it tries to cut 3/8" diameter rebar : //youtu.be/rKj3VC3Fvgk

*note: neither of these blade is bainitic nor duplex microstructure(bainite+martensite) nor austempered. Also 1095 steel sourced from Alpha Knife Supply.

Well here is 26c3 63rc cuts 8mm (5/16") diameter mild steel rod: //youtu.be/ShBLaGEhp74

Also did tested O1, W2, 1084, O7, O2 at 63rc or higher hardness.

15 DPS will be the better slicer. Why? Thinner blade stock and less obtuse edge angle.
I recall "back in the day" most knives with 1095 (W.R. Case, for one) had 10 DPS out of the box (20 degrees inclusive), and the sharpening instructions that came with the knife said to hold the blade at 10 degrees to the stone.

Once something is settled, you will be no longer looking/learning. YMMV.

 

[Chapp]

Because most people think about Ka-bar and Esee 1095 beasts, like the BK22 or the Esee 4/6. Those two brands profit from top quality heat treatment, which tends to make their 1095 robust. Heat treatment is king, especially on the bushcraft department.

Blade grind and design matters too when it comes to robustness and again Esee/Kabar top knives have very good design.

Condor and tops are cheap brands with soso practice in terms of metal.

 

[Chapp]

Regardless of other's opinion, I do consider batoning abuse. Most manufacturers do as well, since batoning voids the warranty just like using the knife as a screwdriver and prybar does.
In over 60 years of using my knife in the boonies, not once have I had cause to baton my knife.
Truth to tell, prior to coming to Blade Forums, I'd never heard of it. No one I knew batoned their knife. Reading their books, Nessmuk, Kephart, and Kreps never batoned their knives. The 1911 (first year published) and later Boy Scout Handbooks, do not mention batoning. (None of the aforementioned gentleman, and the BSA chop with their knives, either.) No one "back in the day" batoned their knife. Not the "Mountain Man"/Professional hunters/trappers, Explorers, Settlers, Soldiers, Scouts, "Cowboys", Missionaries, or the Natives.

Knives are a tool for cutting and slicing. Not felling trees or "processing firewood". Strangely enough, I've always been able to find firewood that didn't need splitting, and plenty of dry grass/leaves/moss, twigs, and other materials for kindling, around the camp site. I also carried a supply oh hemp or other not cotton string.

I was taught under the "Use The Right Tool For The Job" and the "Finesse and Skill Beats Brute Force" schools.

There are a lot of jobs/tasks out in the sticks and boonies, that a knife is the correct tool for. However, felling a tree, limbing, and "processing firewood" are not numbered among them. Honestly, there are more jobs/tasks in the sticks and boonies were a knife is the wrong tool than it is the right tool.

You want to, or feel you "have" to baton to be doing "bushcraft" "properly"?
Great! Get a froe, beat your axe/hatchet/tomahawk, or if you didn't pack one in, make and use a wedge.

Answer this question honestly:
SCINARIO:
Lets say you're two or three days out from the nearest civilization, and/or your vehicle. You're alone; No one came with you. You're on foot. No ATV, no cellphone coverage, etc.. You're "on your own."
It just started to snow, the temperature is dropping rapidly, along with a significant increase in wind speed, from a breeze to a gale.
You manage to get your tent up.

For whatever reason, you baton with your knife to "process/split your firewood", and it breaks on the first strike. Now you got no knife, and no fire.

What you going to do?

Hard disagree. A bushcraft knife is built to do all those tasks (batonning, splitting, piercing...). What would use an Esee 6 or a Bk22 for ? They're ridiculous for cutting stuff. They're built for taking abuses and replace an axe, which are often a pain to carry outside. Even a Mora is a meh slicer because it's a bushcraft knife first.

About your scenario : I always carry a bushC knife and a folder. Problem solved.

 

[Zeunerite]

I thought bushcrafting was about learning to do things with basic tools and being able to adapt to different scenarios.
Batoning seems like the opposite of that. Sacrificing versatility so it can do a specific task in a specific way instead of learning the different methods on splitting a log.
If you want to save weight then replace that big knife with a smaller one and carve some wedges to drive into the logs.

 

[Smiling]

I'm not going to lie, I love plain carbon steels but my EDC is still 3V Mini Pendleton.

SK5 has proven itself as very tough (it's still in one piece and I've abused it for quite a while) but then again, it might be just the fact that the knife itself is 5mm thick, and not really thin behind the edge...
What I like about plain carbon steel is how easy it is to get sharp and it's abillity to take patina.

1095/1084/SK5/1080... those steels aren't the toughest steels on the market, but they do provide excellent toughness for the price.
My guess would be they are marketed as outdoors knives because of the fact they are still tougher than lower end stainless steel which would be in similar price range, but mainly because of their ability to take an edge very easily. If you spend a lot of time outdoors or if you end up in emergency situation there's a fair chance you won't have a knife sharpener at hand.

I love my 3V, but if I had to go in nature without knife sharpener - thick stock plain carbon steel knife would be my choice.

 

[Londinium Armoury]

Has anybody done testing on sword length blades for toughness comparisons between steels? I have wondered if 3V is so much tougher why aren't any high end swords made out of 3V. Why are high end swords usually made out of 5160, 1095, L6, T10, S7, 1060 etc. I have never seen a sword made out of 3V.
Would a 3V sword prove tougher than a 1095 sword if you went to town hacking at 2x4 hardwood or a small tree.

Edit: I just had a look around and found a few swords in 3V, it actually looks like it makes a pretty badass sword material.

 

[Wannabe Rambo Guy]

I mean, yeah. You are wannaberamboguy, so yeah... I can see how you would like KABAR. I believe you. By outdoor fun, you mean murdering bad guys, right?

Yeah, but that's a whole other story. I save my benchmade w/ S30V for them

 

[000Robert]

Regardless of other's opinion, I do consider batoning abuse. Most manufacturers do as well, since batoning voids the warranty just like using the knife as a screwdriver and prybar does.
In over 60 years of using my knife in the boonies, not once have I had cause to baton my knife.
Truth to tell, prior to coming to Blade Forums, I'd never heard of it. No one I knew batoned their knife. Reading their books, Nessmuk, Kephart, and Kreps never batoned their knives. The 1911 (first year published) and later Boy Scout Handbooks, do not mention batoning. (None of the aforementioned gentleman, and the BSA chop with their knives, either.) No one "back in the day" batoned their knife. Not the "Mountain Man"/Professional hunters/trappers, Explorers, Settlers, Soldiers, Scouts, "Cowboys", Missionaries, or the Natives.

Knives are a tool for cutting and slicing. Not felling trees or "processing firewood". Strangely enough, I've always been able to find firewood that didn't need splitting, and plenty of dry grass/leaves/moss, twigs, and other materials for kindling, around the camp site. I also carried a supply oh hemp or other not cotton string.

I was taught under the "Use The Right Tool For The Job" and the "Finesse and Skill Beats Brute Force" schools.

There are a lot of jobs/tasks out in the sticks and boonies, that a knife is the correct tool for. However, felling a tree, limbing, and "processing firewood" are not numbered among them. Honestly, there are more jobs/tasks in the sticks and boonies were a knife is the wrong tool than it is the right tool.

You want to, or feel you "have" to baton to be doing "bushcraft" "properly"?
Great! Get a froe, beat your axe/hatchet/tomahawk, or if you didn't pack one in, make and use a wedge.

Answer this question honestly:
SCINARIO:
Lets say you're two or three days out from the nearest civilization, and/or your vehicle. You're alone; No one came with you. You're on foot. No ATV, no cellphone coverage, etc.. You're "on your own."
It just started to snow, the temperature is dropping rapidly, along with a significant increase in wind speed, from a breeze to a gale.
You manage to get your tent up.

For whatever reason, you baton with your knife to "process/split your firewood", and it breaks on the first strike. Now you got no knife, and no fire.

What you going to do?

I'll have CPK knives. So, my knives won't break.

 

[D-weaver]

Has anybody done testing on sword length blades for toughness comparisons between steels? I have wondered if 3V is so much tougher why aren't any high end swords made out of 3V. Why are high end swords usually made out of 5160, 1095, L6, T10, S7, 1060 etc. I have never seen a sword made out of 3V.
Would a 3V sword prove tougher than a 1095 sword if you went to town hacking at 2x4 hardwood or a small tree.


Edit: I just had a look around and found a few swords in 3V, it actually looks like it makes a pretty badass sword material.

Cost, has to be worked cool so it doesn't air harden and then abrasion for all of the steps is slower and in the end, the sword isn't really that much better of a sword (would be my guess).

But the flip side of it is if nobody does it, sooner or later there will be a small group of people who will pay a mint for it.

Friend if mine had a bunch of chisels made out of 3V - really just bar stock stuck in a handle. I devised a novel sharpening method for chisels that helps chisels a bit soft hold a fine edge. After years of talking about how good the chisels were and how tough they were, he sent me a message and said my sharpening method saved his chisels because at 59 hardness, they were too soft.

Sometimes I wonder why stories change so fast like that, but the point of it was that while it may be very tough, and it may have been very abrasion resistant compared to plain steels, it doesn't make a better chisel for use (japanese white II and I are probably about as good as it gets for chisels - 3V can't take the ideal hardness that they can attain and it makes a sweeter-working chisel. Even a shaped and reheated vintage file makes a better chisel, but none of those are likely to be tougher than 3V - the toughness just isn't needed, and neither is wear resistance).

 

[DMG]

Regardless of other's opinion, I do consider batoning abuse. Most manufacturers do as well, since batoning voids the warranty just like using the knife as a screwdriver and prybar does.
In over 60 years of using my knife in the boonies, not once have I had cause to baton my knife.
Truth to tell, prior to coming to Blade Forums, I'd never heard of it. No one I knew batoned their knife. Reading their books, Nessmuk, Kephart, and Kreps never batoned their knives. The 1911 (first year published) and later Boy Scout Handbooks, do not mention batoning. (None of the aforementioned gentleman, and the BSA chop with their knives, either.) No one "back in the day" batoned their knife. Not the "Mountain Man"/Professional hunters/trappers, Explorers, Settlers, Soldiers, Scouts, "Cowboys", Missionaries, or the Natives.

Knives are a tool for cutting and slicing. Not felling trees or "processing firewood". Strangely enough, I've always been able to find firewood that didn't need splitting, and plenty of dry grass/leaves/moss, twigs, and other materials for kindling, around the camp site. I also carried a supply oh hemp or other not cotton string.

I was taught under the "Use The Right Tool For The Job" and the "Finesse and Skill Beats Brute Force" schools.

There are a lot of jobs/tasks out in the sticks and boonies, that a knife is the correct tool for. However, felling a tree, limbing, and "processing firewood" are not numbered among them. Honestly, there are more jobs/tasks in the sticks and boonies were a knife is the wrong tool than it is the right tool.

You want to, or feel you "have" to baton to be doing "bushcraft" "properly"?
Great! Get a froe, beat your axe/hatchet/tomahawk, or if you didn't pack one in, make and use a wedge.

Answer this question honestly:
SCINARIO:
Lets say you're two or three days out from the nearest civilization, and/or your vehicle. You're alone; No one came with you. You're on foot. No ATV, no cellphone coverage, etc.. You're "on your own."
It just started to snow, the temperature is dropping rapidly, along with a significant increase in wind speed, from a breeze to a gale.
You manage to get your tent up.

For whatever reason, you baton with your knife to "process/split your firewood", and it breaks on the first strike. Now you got no knife, and no fire.

What you going to do?

I bet the reason Kephart, et al didn’t mention batonning is that it is a basic cutting. They probably didn’t go in depth into a lot of stuff like that. It is by far the best way to make kindling and firestarter in the usually wet eastern woods where I live.

I have literally never damaged a knife doing it. I also can’t think of any company that makes fixed blade hard use knives that won’t warranty a knife that was batonned.

When I am starting a fire I much prefer a fixed blade to a hatchet to make the small kindling. Once that stuff is burning well split wood is not as big a deal.

 

[000Robert]

I bet the reason Kephart, et al didn’t mention batonning is that it is a basic cutting. They probably didn’t go in depth into a lot of stuff like that. It is by far the best way to make kindling and firestarter in the usually wet eastern woods where I live.

I have literally never damaged a knife doing it. I also can’t think of any company that makes fixed blade hard use knives that won’t warranty a knife that was batonned.

When I am starting a fire I much prefer a fixed blade to a hatchet to make the small kindling. Once that stuff is burning well split wood is not as big a deal.

I have never used a knife for a baton. I always used a hatchet.

 

[DMG]

I have never used a knife for a baton. I always used a hatchet.

You should try it. It is great for making fine kindling.