Why Remove the Prices?

[Lone_Wolfe]

Basically, it's "I don't care what it's worth or what someone else has paid for it because I'm going to get it regardless because it's what I want". Sadly, 98% of us don't fall under that category.

Ummmmmm, OK. You're making a lot of assumptions, and you seem to have a personal interest in getting me to agree with you. The scenario I presented was different than the one you presented. I'm not going to bother trying to explain it again. Have a nice evening.

 

[NeverMore1701]

Basically, it's "I don't care what it's worth or what someone else has paid for it because I'm going to get it regardless because it's what I want". Sadly, 98% of us don't fall under that category.

No, it's "these don't show up often, so I'm going to jump on it even though it's not exactly what I want" as opposed to "these show up every couple of weeks, I'll wait for the one that's exactly what I'm looking for".

 

[Lone_Wolfe]

No, it's "these don't show up often, so I'm going to jump on it even though it's not exactly what I want" as opposed to "these show up every couple of weeks, I'll wait for the one that's exactly what I'm looking for".

You got it, thank you. :thumbup:

 

[Mossyhorn]

So now I have to ask, "Why is it important that the post itself be left up if the selling price has been deleted?". As Lou stated, it's really no more hassle to delete the entire post than to delete the selling price... actually, it's probably easier overall... So WHY would anyone (seller, buyer, searcher of info) want or not want the entire post deleted as opposed to just the selling price? In reality, what purpose does it serve to the seller or the buyer for the post to be left up if the selling price has been deleted? What purpose does the post serve anyone if the price has been deleted? What info could possibly be in the post (except for maybe some cool pics) that could be beneficial to ANYONE if the selling price has been deleted? I'm anxious to see what kind of answers pop up.....

I remove the price simply because if I post another like item for sale at another time, I can post it at a price that is appropriate for me at that time. I leave the photos and descriptions up until the buyer has received the item and is satisfied. After that, I
delete the photos and all the text. I then edit thread to say closed and lock the thread. I've never used any prices from sellers to try to estimate a value.

 

[Fanglekai]

I too would like the rules changed in favor of leaving the price there. If privacy is a concern don't post your personal information all over the site so your irl identity isn't linked to your online one, or pm/email the seller. More information is better than less in this case. Leaving the prices shows trends in value fluctuations and gives people a ballpark idea of what certain knives cost. IMO the rules should be modified because this information over time is an incredible resource.

No one can expect prices to remain fixed. Being able to track if a knife is going up in value is very handy.

 

[jtoler_9]

More information is better than less in this case. Leaving the prices shows trends in value fluctuations and gives people a ballpark idea of what certain knives cost. IMO the rules should be modified because this information over time is an incredible resource.
No one can expect prices to remain fixed. Being able to track if a knife is going up in value is very handy.

I disagree with what you said. Your argument is similar to many of the steel testing debates that happen on the forum. Since there is nothing scientific about the data presented, the results are really moot. In other words, so many variables are at play on a public forum as to why people are selling item such and such, that a price plot won't really give any accurate picture of what the items value is IMHO.
Some price items way low because they want another knife or really need money now. Some price high because they are speculators and play the game, or whatever the reason. This would throw off your theory about "what knives cost over time". I just don't see how this information would be remotley important to anyone. Much less "exteemly valuable" as you suggest.
Now if you want to find a previous sales thread with a really cheap price so you can haggle with a current seller through PM, then I can see why you are after the data. Changing the forum rules just to hopefully have more haggle power as a buyer seems trite.
A long time ago, people had books that would tell them the value of a collection item. Can you remember what it was like making a purchasing decision before the internet?

 

[rycen]

Let's also not forget that the price listed is not always the price paid.

 

[Big Chris]

As a relatively new maker (been making just over two years) I remove prices because my quality is ever improving. I would not want to sell knives now for the price I sold them a year ago and I don't want my knives to be priced the same in a year as they are now. I had a thread resurrected that was over a year old wanting to pay that price. The knife had been refinished to my current quality standards and the old price was no longer viable.
It is not about trying to cheat or gouge prices it is about trying to be honest and fair and be sure I get what I need to pay for materials, equipment, and skills.

 

[FLymon]

So now I have to ask, "Why is it important that the post itself be left up if the selling price has been deleted?". As Lou stated, it's really no more hassle to delete the entire post than to delete the selling price... actually, it's probably easier overall... So WHY would anyone (seller, buyer, searcher of info) want or not want the entire post deleted as opposed to just the selling price? In reality, what purpose does it serve to the seller or the buyer for the post to be left up if the selling price has been deleted? What purpose does the post serve anyone if the price has been deleted? What info could possibly be in the post (except for maybe some cool pics) that could be beneficial to ANYONE if the selling price has been deleted? I'm anxious to see what kind of answers pop up.....

Removing just the price leaves the rest of the listing (description of condition, terms of sale etc..) in place should either the buyer or seller need to refer to them in the event there is a dispute.

 

[Lou Castle]

... so many variables are at play on a public forum as to why people are selling item such and such, that a price plot won't really give any accurate picture of the items value is IMHO.

The few variables that are in play, such as "needing money desperately" or "asking way too much" would even out and give someone who was doing thorough research a good average.

Some price items way low because they want another knife or really need money now.

As I've said, I've never seen this without such an explanation.

Some price high because they are speculators and play the game, or whatever the reason.

These people would not get the outrageous prices that they are asking. Buyers would know that their prices, for whatever reason, were greatly inflated and would not pay it. Without some guide of what a price should be, some, particularly a new buyer, could easily be ripped off.

A long time ago, people had books that would tell them the value of a collection item. Can you remember what it was like making a purchasing decision before the internet?

Thanks for making my point. Those books would have no use if they didn't contain the prices paid for those collectibles. This forum might have been an up-to-date version of those books. But mods weren't interested.

 

[Lou Castle]

Let's also not forget that the price listed is not always the price paid.

Rarely is the difference significant. Usually it's something like changing who pays shipping, or Paypal fees, or no more than a couple of percentage points.

 

[Lou Castle]

As a relatively new maker (been making just over two years) I remove prices because my quality is ever improving. I would not want to sell knives now for the price I sold them a year ago and I don't want my knives to be priced the same in a year as they are now.

Then you change them. I don't see how keeping your prices from a year ago prevents this. At some point, your prices will level off as the quality peaks. If someone says, "well a year ago you charged this" your response is "my work then was not as good as it is now." This is how learning curves work. As you get better, your prices rise. At some point your skills will stop increasing exponentially and they only increase incrementally. At that time you'll find that people will stop buying if you keep raising prices at the same rate as you did earlier in your career. Then you'll know "what the market will bear" for your products.

I had a thread resurrected that was over a year old wanting to pay that price. The knife had been refinished to my current quality standards and the old price was no longer viable.

Then a simple explanation will cover the price difference.

It is not about trying to cheat or gouge prices it is about trying to be honest and fair and be sure I get what I need to pay for materials, equipment, and skills.

The prices for "materials [and] equipment" are probably not going to increase much more than allowances for inflation. However YOUR SKILLS, might increase exponentially, especially at first.

 

[Lou Castle]

Removing just the price leaves the rest of the listing (description of condition, terms of sale etc..) in place should either the buyer or seller need to refer to them in the event there is a dispute.

Those details can be changed just as easily as deleting the prices. Buyers and sellers should keep a screen shot of the original ad on hand in the event that there is a dispute.

 

[jtoler_9]

As I've said, I've never seen this without such an explanation.

It happens all the time. Use that search feature you are fond of.

These people would not get the outrageous prices that they are asking. Buyers would know that their prices, for whatever reason, were greatly inflated and would not pay it. Without some guide of what a price should be, some, particularly a new buyer, could easily be ripped off.

Again bull crap. Have you not seen prices on Sprint run blades. You fail to understand the definition of Value. Value is what someone is willing to pay. People will get whatever price someone is willing to pay. Has nothing to do with past prices.

Also Lou,

Watch your quoting happy hands. You have me listed as posting what another poster did.

Changing the forum rules just to hopefully have more haggle power as a buyer seems trite.

Thanks for making my point Lou.

 

[pilote]

These people would not get the outrageous prices that they are asking. Buyers would know that their prices, for whatever reason, were greatly inflated and would not pay it. Without some guide of what a price should be, some, particularly a new buyer, could easily be ripped off.

...this is the root of your argument, isn't it? just because someone paid $100 last year doesn't mean you are entitled to only pay a price no higher than that. if you don't want to pay the $150 a seller is asking for a similar knife that sold for less in the past, DON'T BUY IT.

everyone has the SAME ACCESS TO AVAILABLE INFORMATION all over the net; you don't want to do the research that's up to you. no one gets "ripped off"; if deemed you paid "too much", that all on you, you agreed to do it. seller is going to ask for the most he can get, buyer wants to buy at the lowest price; somewhere in the negotiation a price/deal is made...or not.

my opinion on the base question...i think most people (including myself) want it both ways. i want to see all previous prices not removed; i also want to remove my price when the deal is done. can't have both, so i opt to keep my option on price deletion.

 

[FLymon]

I have an idea Lou,

You should start a forum just for the buying/selling of knives and set the prices like a menu.
You set the selling price and sellers and buyers can sign up and wait for a counterpart to do the same. One could visit the site and see what a particular knife is selling for and if there are sellers, or buyers, signed up waiting for the other to show up.
If you get too many sellers and no buyers, lower the price, and vice versa of course until a good equilibrium is found.

You could become the reference you seek.

Might be an interesting site. I know I would visit it first when I wanted to buy or sell.

 

[Morrow]

Thanks for making my point. Those books would have no use if they didn't contain the prices paid for those collectibles. This forum might have been an up-to-date version of those books. But mods weren't interested.

Mods weren't interested? It's been said before but I'll say it one more time. Spark makes the rules. We sometimes refine a rule to make it clearer but nothing new goes on the books without Spark's approval. Spark's thoughts on this subject are well known and have been stated in one form another when threads like this inevitably start again...and again.

 

[Blues]

I called my favorite online vendor to complain that the very jeans I just bought a year or so back were now priced higher...and not only that, there was no record of the old price! Bloody, hell!

Okay, well, I feel a bit better now...

...and Morrow's got it quite right. Spark is the ultimate arbiter of the rules here on this site and though he will occasionally change his mind regarding, (or update). a policy from time to time, he has not changed his opinion on the right of those who pay for the privilege of selling on this site to do what they wish in regard to their sale postings.

So despite that particular privilege not being to the liking of some, it is what it is and so it shall remain (barring a change of heart from the Grand Poobah). I suggest we all calm down and deal with it.

 

[Lou Castle]

It happens all the time. Use that search feature you are fond of.

You are the one saying that it happens placing the burden to prove it, on you. If you don't want to try, I understand.

Again bull crap.

Really no need for such rudeness.

Have you not seen prices on Sprint run blades.

Nope, no interest in them so I haven't paid them any attention. Can you describe what you're talking about please?

You fail to understand the definition of Value. Value is what someone is willing to pay.

"Value" is what a willing buyer will pay a willing seller. You've left out half the equation.

People will get whatever price someone is willing to pay. Has nothing to do with past prices.

If someone knows what a knife has sold for in the past and it suddenly appears for three times that amount, they are probably NOT going to pay that price, no matter how badly they want the knife (excluding those with unlimited funds, of course). OTOH, especially if they're inexperienced and the buyer puts "RARE" or "HARD TO FIND" in the description, even though the knife is neither, if that inexperienced buyer has nothing to guide him, they might make that purchase, getting ripped off in the act. When he finds out that they've been taken, that will leave a bad taste in his mouth and they might drop out. That's not good for the knife community.

Also Lou,

Watch your quoting happy hands. You have me listed as posting what another poster did.

Apologies, it's been fixed.

jtoler_9 quotes me as having written this, "Changing the forum rules just to hopefully have more haggle power as a buyer seems trite."

Thanks for making my point Lou.

But I didn't write that statement, HE DID! Try to keep up here, OK. Lol

 

[Lou Castle]

Earlier I wrote,

These people would not get the outrageous prices that they are asking. Buyers would know that their prices, for whatever reason, were greatly inflated and would not pay it. Without some guide of what a price should be, some, particularly a new buyer, could easily be ripped off.

...this is the root of your argument, isn't it?

I'm no longer making the argument. It's been made been clear that there is no interest in changing the rules and so I've dropped that part of my argument. Now I'm just correcting people misconceptions and false assumptions, as now.

That was just one of the points. Some others, that are just as important; 1. Having these prices up gives people a source to find the value of their collections. 2. It would have given someone who wanted to buy a knife a guide to what similar knives have sold for in the past and therefore a guide as to what their knife will bring today. 3. It would have ADDED value to the archives for the members. 4. People who were looking for prices would not have to wade through the posts where members delete them, since they wouldn't turn up on a search, making the searches much more efficient.

just because someone paid $100 last year doesn't mean you are entitled to only pay a price no higher than that.

I said nothing of prices that one is "entitled ... [to] pay." It would have been only a guideline.

everyone has the SAME ACCESS TO AVAILABLE INFORMATION all over the net; you don't want to do the research that's up to you.

I do the research, but it's hindered when a site allows sellers to remove the information that is being searched for.

no one gets "ripped off"; if deemed you paid "too much", that all on you, you agreed to do it.

Sometimes people DO get "ripped off." Usually because they're not making an informed decision. The fact that they agreed to it, hardly means that they were not ripped off.

seller is going to ask for the most he can get, buyer wants to buy at the lowest price; somewhere in the negotiation a price/deal is made...or not.

FEW people ask for "the most [they] can get." Most people ask a reasonable price in the hopes of selling in a timely manner. If everyone asked for the max, there'd be much less movement of knives. MOST people think it's good for a knife maker to make a profit from his sales and while they'd like to spend as little as possible, they know that if they did, that knife maker would soon go out of business, making his products unavailable. I think that most people are interested in FAIR prices. My suggestion would have made it easier for them to find what those prices are.

my opinion on the base question...i think most people (including myself) want it both ways.

I certainly don't, and I think it's both unreasonable, and unrealistic.