Let me start by saying i hope i didnt or do not offend this is just a discussion that im interested in. I too have done some training mostly at the amatuer level. So i understand what your saying but originally the situation/gunfight was described as unknown/unknowingly to you. So for you to do what your saying A.) you must have your knife concealed in hand at all times B.)believe that you cant conceal an emerson in your hand like because its a waved knife and or believe you cant take it ought of the pocket without it waving open uncontrollably. For the latter it suprises me because you have owned waved knives and would have known that is simply untrue. Its another false belief such as all ar 15 rifles are fully automatic alot like the movie automatic knives misconception you spoke of. The 21 foot rule im not real sure what your saying because if you can open your knife at any point while closing the distance. why cant i do the same? As i said before just trying to understand. Maybe im the only one that doesnt get it.
As for the aesthetics that was a shot at some of the spydie models but i own a bunch of them and understand the ergos and emerson wave in no wayaffects my grip in reverse or forward because the wave runs flush out from the handle and allows me to place my thumb on the back of the blade over the cutting edge. But i understand not everyone holds a knife the same. I could see the wave being a problem in grip if the blade had a choil that made your grip extend past the wave. On Some models the wave actually is concealled behind the handles when open
No, you have misrepresented what I said and my position related to my comments. I never said anything about me wave-drawing a knife to intimidate (or any knife for that matter). My references were related to the poor guy (referenced as you in the second or third person depending on perspective, but for sure not me). That guy who thinks/wants to get away with stuff like this (perhaps has already, as I have heard first hand and read from others), wave-drawing a knife to intimidate another person with regard to the potential results should your threat of intimidation be taken seriously by a person carrying a firearm that is prepared to use it.
I believe I made it apparent (my opinions from my experiences) that a wave feature on a knife is more an impediment (negative) feature overall. The thread was/is asking Why the dislike for the wave feature?. I initially reserved true positive comments like ease of deployment when wearing gloves, etc. specifically because thats not what the OP was asking for. One might have confused in my initial replies as positives, to the OP question, when in actuality were in my mind all dislikes (hope that makes sense). Sorry if it does not. As I indicated in my initial reply, I was torn between just deleting or hitting the reply button and thought I would leave it as an honest opinion related to the OP question.
With regard to your A.) & B.) comments/questions:
A) NO,
I do not believe I have to hand carry a knife concealed in hand at all times. Did not say that and/or mean at all to give that impression. That is a reserved option based on conditions, observations, and preparations (aka situational-awareness) dictating heightened potential of threat. Situation similar to walking in some parking lots, walking through some neighborhoods the potential threat level may be such that a non-lethal is held in hand, closed knife, keys, kubaton, etc., etc. perhaps pull off the Keyser Soze ;-) or any other distraction technique.
B) NO,
I do believe you (or most folks, I included) could hand concealed carry an Emerson with wave feature (open it while moving, or raking, etc.), provided the methods are practiced/trained and as I have already stated I have owned wave featured knives for many years and yes I understand how to draw one without drawing attention and/or wave opening. This is not however how the knife feature was primarily designed to function AND in no way in my mind relates to the initial references made (this is an excursion it seems), but does not in my mind detract from use (except if that hook happens to snag on something coming out).
Do we disagree, that the wave feature is by design engineered to snag-to-open-deployment upon withdrawal from a concealed carry position
? I would hope/assume that we would each agree that the wave feature can present an impediment to drawing in a closed manner. Minimally requires thought to do so, some have even labeled that a step(I would not say its that significant). I would also hope that we would each agree that with training, drawing in a closed manner can be mastered to the point that one merely needs to make a decision to draw it that way (and hope it does not snag because the design is so good for waved-opening). Draw it from a sitting position, rolling on the ground with someone, etc. (I would say these need serious consideration and some amount of at least initial training and thought to be relied upon so as the blade is not drawn in a partial open condition. Additionally, I would also argue positively from previous training with spine protrusions that that wave-hook can provide devastating leverage-pressure in techniques I have previous describe (the Cold Steel Ti-Lite quillions immediately come to mind as I also train with both 4 & less so 6 versions in much the same way, and believe the Ti-Lite to be stellar for these applications). But this thread was not intended to be about the why-fors, but the why-nots and I will stop on the why-fors in respect of that.
I believe the correct interpretation is all assault rifles are automatics LOL we would hate to leave out the infamous Russian AK models and/or for that matter any/all clip fed semi-autos, as its common knowledge autos and assault weapons are anonymously linked (gee, does that mean my 10g semi-auto goose slaying machine too
yikes quite possibly if I sit by idle and ignorant. I trust we understand the sarcasm of both you and my references here. You may have however missed my point as related to my comments on the Federal Switch Blade Act of 1958. My point being that when people act stupid, and what were once considered tools, etc. become perceived as weapons, thats when folks start banning together out of fear and begin adopting rules, and later implementing restrictive regulations. If we are all wave-opening and power-flicking our folders in the post-office, I would expect new restrictive rules to be not far off (similar to how blade length rules currently differ from county to county, from one type of business to another). The vape industry has recently been hit with huge regulations changes, because while most presumed its all fun and games for a number of years, others were working behind the scenes against (I am speaking both Federally and by state, city, county in this example).
The 21 foot rule, not sure where that came in (perhaps a Doug Marcaida quote or ..., by someone else in the thread history that I missed ...?). Also, I hope that I did not use the term "Rule" as I do not believe that term applicable as the distances are dynamic based on the training variables. My references were related to my first hand discussions with WSP instructor on my property and their increase to 20 foot distances as they related to measured attacker speed time over distance as compared to time to draw (including fire and hit target such to neutralize the threat) of a trained officer (much that same as I have seen Marcaida discuss in his training examples, I am just not current with his guidelines - I think I remember a couple years ago he was using 12 of 15 foot as a zone distance for knife-on-gun-attacker closing time over distance).
RE: The 21 foot rule im not real sure what your saying because if you can open your knife at any point while closing the distance. why cant i do the same? As i said before just trying to understand. Maybe im the only one that doesnt get it.
My first thought is training - if you are asking why cant I do the same meaning you. Otherwise you would know you could and be willing to trust your knowledge (probably not from that distance though unless you are extremely well trained and/or the dirtbag with the firearm is not each a variable only you can answer). Perhaps, what you meant was why couldnt this be done with a wave-feature-knife. I think the primary viable answer comes back to training and lots of it.
RE: emerson wave in no wayaffects my grip in reverse or forward because the wave runs flush out from the handle and allows me to place my thumb on the back of the blade over the cutting edge. But i understand not everyone holds a knife the same. I could see the wave being a problem in grip if the blade had a choil that made your grip extend past the wave. On Some models the wave actually is concealled behind the handles when open
It appears we potentially use our knives differently. Yea, I really have not problems with standard forward or reverse grips that you mentioned (actually like the egos in general in both those grip positions), but I find myself holding a knife in many more than two standard grip positions fairly common place. I have already explained some of my issues to the wave location as it relates to the OP question of dislikes (actually picked up my ETAK before making those comments earlier just to reconfirm my memory, just now again as I type and yep in what I would typically use as a strong forward grip to spend some time working with wood that ramp and hook go right into the web of my hand), I have ground thumb ramps off a number of knives for this same reason in years past. Another is a pinch grip with index finger riding the spine as far forward as possible, and yep that wave-hook is like right there more being obnoxious or rebellious and I could possibly learn to work-around it in this grip. Realistically, I had considered just grinding it down as I have on other knives, but I do like the fact that it does actually act as a blade guard and in blade-on-blade training I know that hook can be advantageous and also its very functional as a non-lethal as previously mentioned. Just beyond believing its a true asset overall with what I expect from a folder. If I were to give it more time, I would perhaps come around for the positive reasons I have mentioned but not for use as a wave-deploy-feature (been there, more hindrance than value).
I don't spend much time cutting with my thumb on the spine of a knife in general (exception would be Filipino grip practice especially practical with my Yojimbo's or any Wharncliffe defensive training). Every day type stuff probably less than 5% value to me in that grip I would say.
There are a lot of grips where I really appreciate the Emerson ergos (I always make positive comment to that effect, it just seems any time there is ANY honest negative reference folks just really seem to need to take a defensive posture (to me this really seems to indicate when something cant stand alone and take a little constructive criticism). Hell if you could hear what I say about my favorite knives before making subtle modification to correct you'd probably think I thought everything was a piece of crap, and that in my opinion would simply mean you are not really listening to what I am saying.
I think there's a lot to be said for; what is said and why vs. what is heard and why.
Hopefully, there is more clarity than confusion in what I have said here (I have honestly attempted to put this together so it flows and makes sense addressing your questions & exposing my potential short comings
(did I mention I have always preferred tip down carry OHHH that slipped my mind until just now as to another reason for Why the dislike for the wave feature? - SCORE
one more
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