Would you buy a Chinese-made Buck?

[Luke73]

Only U.S.A. made Bucks for me.

 

[sharp thoughts]

Ditto

Only U.S.A. made Bucks for me.

 

[300Bucks]

Don, Welcome to forum. It sounds like you got a now discontinued 'Workman' series knife from back in the 80's. Likely came in a blister package and had Workman ink stenciled on the main blade, had a couple of blades and a black plastic handle. Buck made a couple of versions of this variation . I will find a photo for this Sundays Picture Show.

Just wanted to say, thanks to all who have expressed their feelings about overseas Buck knives without going political. Please, let that continue.
I have had five well assembled overseas imported Bucks all of which I have given away to some folks who wanted or needed them more than me. I wish I had one early one back that was real jigged bone scale. All I can say to you is Buck is a business doing what it has to, it has intentions to make all of them stamped U.S.A. someday. 300Bucks

 

[imafritz]

I have a buck knife I purchased a couple of decades ago. The company I was working at paid for it. It was somewhat expensive. I believe it was called an "electricians" knife. Very good quality and has provided excellent service over many years. Recently I purchased thru Wal-Mart (mail order) a small BUCK pocket knife. It did cost a bit of money, but when I got it I feel like my money was wasted to an extent. Though I am sure it is new, it looked used and the quality from first appearance was in my view, low grade. Even the symbol BUCK looked like something you would see on a 50 cent toy. It is not as sharp as I expected it to be as well. Then I saw that it was made in China. I have a number of pocket knives I have collected over the years. All but one are generic and have no name on them. But I consider them all equal to the BUCK knife. There is one exception. My son a few years ago gave me a pocket knife he had been given or found or something. It is much better than BUCK CHINA one I just got. And guess what? It has on it's blade "BUCK U.S.A." I would recommend this. If you are going to purchase a BUCK knife, to it in person so you can evaluate if it is the quality you want.

I’d like to see it. Any pics?

 

[Donald Sechrest]

Don, Welcome to forum. It sounds like you got a now discontinued 'Workman' series knife from back in the 80's. Likely came in a blister package and had Workman ink stenciled on the main blade, had a couple of blades and a black plastic handle. Buck made a couple of versions of this variation . I will find a photo for this Sundays Picture Show.

Just wanted to say, thanks to all who have expressed their feelings about overseas Buck knives without going political. Please, let that continue.
I have had five well assembled overseas imported Bucks all of which I have given away to some folks who wanted or needed them more than me. I wish I had one early one back that was real jigged bone scale. All I can say to you is Buck is a business doing what it has to, it has intentions to make all of them stamped U.S.A. someday. 300Bucks

Thanks for the input. Actually it came in a box. If it helps, it is a 2 blade, and it is on the second blade that says "China". The main blade says BUCK 375. I doubt Walmart would have anything for sale from 1980's. I have nothing against China or any overseas manufacturing. I generally purchase items based on price vs what I believe the quality will be. Buying brand name items generally helps out a lot. I am sure this is a good enough knife, but given the price I paid and it's name I just expected a bit more. I certainly will keep and use it as my main pocket knife.

I also would like to say that at 75 I have purchased many, many, many non U.S. items. There was a time when the quality of a lot of the items from Japan and other eastern nations was not all that good, but those are days gone past. I find that most items I purchase that are not of a good quality are ones sold on TV Infomercials. The manufacturers are generally making what the designers and sellers want so it is not all that much their fault.

And yes, cheep labor overseas does hurt American business, but having worked as a consultant most of my life and many different companies, I will say that I believe that American managers and workers have cause more of the problems than the cheep labor overseas. When a company cares more about the dollar than the employee, and employees care less about their work than most other things in their lives, failure is inevitable.

I am a political person to an extent of opinions, and I fully believe in fair trade as well as capitalism. But as our president has pointed out very clearly it can be both good and bad.

 

[Donald Sechrest]

Thanks for the input. Actually it came in a box. If it helps, it is a 2 blade, and it is on the second blade that says "China". The main blade says BUCK 375. I doubt Walmart would have anything for sale from 1980's. I have nothing against China or any overseas manufacturing. I generally purchase items based on price vs what I believe the quality will be. Buying brand name items generally helps out a lot. I am sure this is a good enough knife, but given the price I paid and it's name I just expected a bit more. I certainly will keep and use it as my main pocket knife.

I also would like to say that at 75 I have purchased many, many, many non U.S. items. There was a time when the quality of a lot of the items from Japan and other eastern nations was not all that good, but those are days gone past. I find that most items I purchase that are not of a good quality are ones sold on TV Infomercials. The manufacturers are generally making what the designers and sellers want so it is not all that much their fault.

And yes, cheep labor overseas does hurt American business, but having worked as a consultant most of my life and many different companies, I will say that I believe that American managers and workers have cause more of the problems than the cheep labor overseas. When a company cares more about the dollar than the employee, and employees care less about their work than most other things in their lives, failure is inevitable.

I am a political person to an extent of opinions, and I fully believe in fair trade as well as capitalism. But as our president has pointed out very clearly it can be both good and bad.

 

[jbmonkey]

I support buck. China made, American made. prefer American made but what matters to me is buck stays in business, is able to provide good wages for its employees and the owners and is around still making us great tools.

 

[sassafrassdogs]

Just do what I do, buy more of the American made to make up for the Chinese ones you wouldn't buy...

 

[jbmonkey]

Just do what I do, buy more of the American made to make up for the Chinese ones you wouldn't buy...

cant argue with that. solid statement and walks the talk.

 

[Donald Sechrest]

I support buck. China made, American made. prefer American made but what matters to me is buck stays in business, is able to provide good wages for its employees and the owners and is around still making us great tools.

Yes. BUCK should be supported. I do not have a lot of experience with other name brand knives but I do have with many knives in general. Price always kept me from buying name brand knives and give the purpose of knives I purchased, cheep ones were OK. When I got the first Buck (for work) decades ago, I saw what a quality knife truly is. It does not take a lot of knowledge to understand why a lot of business has moved overseas. But maybe it is actually coming back. And given many companies are now doing production business in the US things are coming back around.

 

[Jammer Six]

There is only one valid way to evaluate a given knife.

In my book, there are only three things that really matter. The blade, the grips and getting it open. The steel in the blade, the feel of the grips and how easy it is to open.

Are you a hardcore, anytime, anything, anywhere user? Do you cut wire with your knife? Sharpen pencils? Cut up cardboard boxes? Open the mail, all with the blade in your pocket?

Or do you have a prima-donna blade, that is only used for cheese, butterfly wings and mermaid tails, while you use other, trash knives for anything else?

Do you like real grips, made of lovingly rounded wood, or can you live with modern abominations, like dead flat G-10 grips? Or even the nightmare that is metal "grips"?

How sharp is sharp enough? Shaving? Splitting hairs? Paper?

For that matter, how do you sharpen, and how often? Twice a year, whether it needs it or not? After every use? Once a week, in a ritualistic Thursday morning session, along with all the other blades in the shop that need it?

How do you sharpen? Do you lovingly stroke the blade on sandpaper on float glass, and then finish on 8,000 Japanese water stones? A Tormek system? Or a grinding wheel from Home Depot? Or do you just flip the belt sander over and grind away with whatever belt is there until it's good enough?

All these things, and at least a hundred more factors, will influence whether or not you're happy with The Blade In Your Pocket.

So that brings me back to the first sentence.

There's only one way to evaluate a given knife.

That way is to buy it, stuff it in your pocket, and use it for a few months.

 

[Makael]

Buck has local edge

Sun., May 31, 2009

1 / 3

Nanci Brum, 62, of Post Falls, works in the heat treat department at Buck Knives in Post Falls on May 20. Buck Knives is focusing on producing more of its knives in Post Falls and reducing imports, which had crept up to 40 percent of production, but are now at 20 percent to 25 percent. (Photos by Kathy Plonka / The Spokesman-Review)

By Alison Boggs alisonb@spokesman.com(509) 459-5314
.

The timing could not have been better for Post Falls-based Buck Knives to move production lines back to the United States from China. A renewed spirit of nationalism, driven by a deep recession and a desire to create jobs at home, is prompting more of its dealers to seek American-made products.

“We did not plan for that,” said CJ Buck, CEO of the 107-year-old, family-run company. “We were just trying to bring products into this factory because we have more control over what we build in this factory than in what we import. The cool part is that we are running into this recession-created national mentality that our dealers are responding to. I’d love to say we did it on purpose.”

Other North Idaho businesspeople say they see that type of commercial nationalism growing in the area – or at least becoming a hot discussion topic. In Spokane, the economic development organization Greater Spokane Inc. recently launched a “Buy Local” campaign to promote Inland Northwest businesses and jobs.

But some warn that a “Buy American” mindset can backfire when interpreted by trading partners as protectionism.

For Buck Knives, moving production lines back to the States was part of the company’s long-range plan. Following its 2005 move to Post Falls from California and two years of getting organized, its reliance on Chinese production crept up to about 40 percent of all knives.

Now imports are down to 20 percent to 25 percent, and sales were stronger than expected in the first quarter. The increased domestic production also has caused the knife maker to add 10 new workers to its 220-person employment base, offsetting some of last year’s layoffs. Though overall production is expected to drop below last year, domestic production should increase by about 20 percent, Buck said.

Dealers have noticed. In a normal year, Buck Knives’ retail customers will pick up three or four new products, Buck said. But this year, they’re adding as many as 20 from the company’s array of 65 new knives. “Our dealers are saying we would much rather pay that small premium and have a U.S. product than an imported product. We’ve gotten very good placement on these products so far.”

Cont

 

[Makael]

Buck Knives’ experience reflects a sentiment playing out at the nation’s highest levels as business and government interests do what they can to preserve American jobs. A “Buy American” clause in the $787 billion stimulus bill requires domestic contracts for iron, steel and manufactured goods, while not running afoul of international trade agreements. As U.S. car companies negotiate bankruptcy proceedings with the federal government, United Auto Workers members are seen in the news, beseeching American consumers to buy American cars.

“What you drive drives America,” read one sign held up by a General Motors employee at a UAW rally earlier this month.

“The tenor of the times is such that … there’s a sentiment that people should buy local products if at all possible,” said Jonathan Coe, president of the Coeur d’Alene Chamber of Commerce.

That has long been the order of business at another Post Falls-based business, Ground Force Manufacturing, which makes trucks for the mining industry. Company President Ron Nilson said his clients in Wyoming and Nevada have come to expect that his products will be made in this country with American parts.

From a practical standpoint, Nilson said he’s seen an increasing number of companies learn that the costs of overseas production can stack up, despite savings on labor. Once quality, delivery times and the danger of losing intellectual property are factored in, he said, some companies have realized the savings are not as great as expected.

“We’re seeing a lot of companies say ‘We went overseas and we didn’t realize the profits and savings,’ ” Nilson said. “I think we’re going to see … people are willing to pay a small premium knowing that this is supplying U.S. labor and putting people back to work.”

Buck said keeping production in Post Falls means better control over products. It means being able to switch assembly from one product to another within an hour to rapidly respond to large orders. And it means shipping to customers within three days of receipt of a purchase order.

“Try to do that with an import product,” Buck said. “The response would be, ‘I’m sorry, that’s going to have to be back-ordered, because the next shipment is coming in in four weeks.’ Bringing those jobs back internally helps us better supply and better deliver to our customers.”

The tradeoff: labor and benefits costs that are eight to 12 times more expensive in the United States than in China, company officials said.

Despite the potential gains, taking the “Buy American” sentiment to the extreme can result in backlash and accusations of protectionism from trading partners, as a recent Washington Post story revealed. Tensions escalated when one Indiana town spending stimulus dollars rejected Canadian suppliers only to have some Ontario towns strike back and bar U.S. companies from municipal contracts.

“You can’t isolate yourself because commerce works two ways,” said Tim Komberec, CEO of Hayden-based Empire Airlines. Though his company always tries to buy locally made products and proudly flies domestically for Federal Express, he said his aircraft repair business also relies on domestic and international customers.

“Anybody who thinks we can do it all ourselves in this day and age, it’s just not true,” Komberec said. “We are part of international commerce and it has to exist for us to thrive.”

Eastern Washington University economist Patrick Jones said it’s not unusual for the labor force to “batten down the hatches in times of crisis.” Washington, however, is the most trade-dependent state in the country, he said.

“If we have a ‘Buy American’ attitude, we shouldn’t be surprised if that same attitude doesn’t prevail among our trading partners. I think we have to be very mindful of that,” Jones said.

He thinks most Spokane-area businesspeople are proud of the strength of Washington’s export sector, which produces big dividends for the region.

“It is ethically problematic and economically suspect if we expect to do all the exporting we want, then minimize the imports,” said Jones, who directs EWU’s Institute for Public Policy and Economic Analysis.

CJ Buck said Buck Knives has been importing since the late 1990s and has been regularly criticized for it by customers who expect the knives to be American-made. That’s one of the reasons the company decided never to import hunting knives.

“The hunting knives would always be the foundation of our company and they would always be American-made,” he said. “In 2007, we decided we would put a real push on American-made.”

Despite that, he said, the company likely will always import certain knives because overseas production costs are too low to compete effectively in this country. Some pocket knives, filet knives and multitools will continue to be made in China by companies that build to Buck Knives’ design specifications, he said.

“China tends to be about 20 to 30 percent less expensive than we can make it here” for those products, Buck said. Making multitools here, he added, would cost “hundreds of thousands of dollars to tool-up for all those parts.”

Grant Forsyth, an associate professor of economics at EWU, said he’s not surprised at Buck Knives’ resurgent success with its American-made hunting knives as consumer interest in that arena tends to be product-specific.

“America has a long tradition of creating high quality (weaponry),” he said. “To collectors, being made in the USA is an important thing. With hunting, the location of the manufacturer can have a big influence on a person’s decision to buy

 

[Makael]

The underlined section I thought was interesting in this story.

Bringing it home, keeping it wild


IDAHO
You might call it a minor movement, but "reshoring" -- a new word that means bringing offshore jobs back home -- is buoying some residents of rural Idaho. About 12 years ago, Buck Knives sent up to half its production to China, thinking it would save money. Unfortunately, many customers were steamed by that decision. "Hunters are rednecks, and they don't like anything with that C word on it," admits company chairman Chuck Buck. So for the last few years, Buck has begun reshoring knife production and adding jobs to the town of Post Falls, and sales have picked up. "I want to get out of China as quickly as I can," says Buck, whose grandfather founded the firm in 1902. Idaho Statesman reporter Bill Roberts also talked to Ed Endebrock, who just opened Ende Machinery and Foundry in the declining town of Craigmont, Idaho, population 500. "We need to bring back our manufacturing base to this country," Endebrock says. "We can't live on flipping hamburgers all our lives." Businesses decide to leave Asia for lots of reasons, including increased automation here, growing freight costs, the need to be closer to resources and customers for quick decisions, and retaining customer goodwill. But there was another -- and slightly more unpleasant -- reason why Endebrock chose to scour the country for parts and build a foundry in Idaho from scratch. He said he was "frosted when he sent plans for a proprietary piece of equipment from his Lewiston plant to his Chinese manufacturer to reproduce, and the newly produced part ended up in the hands of his competitor before he received it

 

[st8yd]

The underlined section I thought was interesting in this story.
... He said he was "frosted when he sent plans for a proprietary piece of equipment from his Lewiston plant to his Chinese manufacturer to reproduce, and the newly produced part ended up in the hands of his competitor before he received it

Ya that would suck an i'd be more than frosted.

 

[Donald Sechrest]

There is only one valid way to evaluate a given knife.

In my book, there are only three things that really matter. The blade, the grips and getting it open. The steel in the blade, the feel of the grips and how easy it is to open.

Are you a hardcore, anytime, anything, anywhere user? Do you cut wire with your knife? Sharpen pencils? Cut up cardboard boxes? Open the mail, all with the blade in your pocket?

Or do you have a prima-donna blade, that is only used for cheese, butterfly wings and mermaid tails, while you use other, trash knives for anything else?

Do you like real grips, made of lovingly rounded wood, or can you live with modern abominations, like dead flat G-10 grips? Or even the nightmare that is metal "grips"?

How sharp is sharp enough? Shaving? Splitting hairs? Paper?

For that matter, how do you sharpen, and how often? Twice a year, whether it needs it or not? After every use? Once a week, in a ritualistic Thursday morning session, along with all the other blades in the shop that need it?

How do you sharpen? Do you lovingly stroke the blade on sandpaper on float glass, and then finish on 8,000 Japanese water stones? A Tormek system? Or a grinding wheel from Home Depot? Or do you just flip the belt sander over and grind away with whatever belt is there until it's good enough?

All these things, and at least a hundred more factors, will influence whether or not you're happy with The Blade In Your Pocket.

So that brings me back to the first sentence.

There's only one way to evaluate a given knife.

That way is to buy it, stuff it in your pocket, and use it for a few months.

WOW - That is a fantastic response. I have dealt with a lot of knives in 75 years. From switch blades in my youth, to Rambo's in my old age. However, I will admit that my biggest involvement with knives was to purchase them and give them to other members of my fairly large family. I track 86 down-line members. However these days now on Social Security I do very little with knives.

You have put a lot of detail in your response that I was more or less aware of but never really thought about. I think anyone getting into doing a lot with knives would be well served just to read your response to start with. Very informative, accurate and encapsulating.

I would be very interested in knowing where I could obtain the book you refer to. I have some members of the family that are more serious into knives and the book could make good Christmas gifts.

Thanks again for your great response.

 

[J Hubbard]

Thanks for the input. Actually it came in a box. If it helps, it is a 2 blade, and it is on the second blade that says "China". The main blade says BUCK 375. I doubt Walmart would have anything for sale from 1980's. I have nothing against China or any overseas manufacturing. I generally purchase items based on price vs what I believe the quality will be. Buying brand name items generally helps out a lot. I am sure this is a good enough knife, but given the price I paid and it's name I just expected a bit more. I certainly will keep and use it as my main pocket knife.

I also would like to say that at 75 I have purchased many, many, many non U.S. items. There was a time when the quality of a lot of the items from Japan and other eastern nations was not all that good, but those are days gone past. I find that most items I purchase that are not of a good quality are ones sold on TV Infomercials. The manufacturers are generally making what the designers and sellers want so it is not all that much their fault.

And yes, cheep labor overseas does hurt American business, but having worked as a consultant most of my life and many different companies, I will say that I believe that American managers and workers have cause more of the problems than the cheep labor overseas. When a company cares more about the dollar than the employee, and employees care less about their work than most other things in their lives, failure is inevitable.

I am a political person to an extent of opinions, and I fully believe in fair trade as well as capitalism. But as our president has pointed out very clearly it can be both good and bad.

Welcome Don. If you aren't happy of with the quality of the 375, send it on in and we will take care you.

Jeff

 

[pinnah]

I fell in love with Buck knives when I got my first Buck 110 and it contained the statement of faith that described how God has been a managing partner for Buck. That sold me and continues to matter.

IMO, the China vs US labor issue is the wrong way to think about the problem and one that is inconsistent with Buck's faith commitment. The Great Teacher taught us that the best example of brotherly love was shown by a foreign enemy (a Samaritan). Chinese workers are our brothers and sisters and deserve jobs and living wages as much as US workers do. That's not a popular opinion currently, but then, the teachings of the Great Teacher have never been.

IMO, the real threat to American manufacturing is speculative profit driven investment. For a great and horrifying example, look how Cerberus sucked the life out of Remington Firearms and with it, Marlin. Cerberus has one goal only - to maximize profit and they're willing to do that on the backs of employees and by running a system into the ground.

Buck has avoided this by staying privately held and that's allowing them to make some better decisions balancing the long term viability against short term profit. Another model that allows many European manufacturers to survive in the long term is the model of worker cooperatives, which helps to keep the focus of the company's decision making on the long term benefit of the workers.

This said, I don't buy Chinese made Bucks because I prefer Buck's traditional designs and I'm not interested in imported traditionals, as that is an oxymoron to me. I wouldn't buy a French made Swiss Army Knife, nor a Yugoslovian Puuko. That's an aesthetic issue for me, not a nationalist one.

 

[Yonose]

I buy American branded knives made in Taiwan and Japan. For some reason I wouldn’t buy an American branded knife made in China if it were 1% of the cost. Nor would I ever buy a We or Reate knife. I would look into buying a Tibetan branded (If I found such a one were allowed to exist)knife similar to Himalayan imports, however.

 

[sassafrassdogs]

French Military rifles would be ok...They have never been fired and only dropped twice...