Would you buy a Chinese-made Buck?

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Frotier76 said:
What kind of nylon Jeff?

Being that you're not stating Valox or any patented material name I'm a little curious.Simply stating "nylon" on the 110LT sounds like you guys are using recycled plastics from anything and not something actual quality used for the firearms or automotive industry.

To add to that Jeff you guys were making the Bantam fully in China from 2007-2008/2009 then started making the blades here on USA soil.But the product does state it's currently made with USA and imported parts.So do Sanrenmu ship them sub-assembled with the generic FRN scales or are they already-assembled in China just minus the blade.

If I get a chance over the next few days I'll upload a picture of my new in box 442 Bucklite model.Those were believed to be USA made and were advertised as having Valox plastic scales.I'll have to check the blade's date code and production date on the box apparently but apparently you guys starting dabbling in Chinese manufacturing or materials on some level.This one says on the box label it was made of USA and imported parts.
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Assume the best not the worst.
 
J Hubbard said:
Valox and Zytel are manufacturers names. There are many suppliers of plastics these days, so not using a brand name doesn't mean as much anymore. To jump from my non-use of those trade names to us using recycled or inferior grade of Nylon is not a good conclusion. We use a Glass filled Nylon that has properties equal to those trade names. Typically it is a nylon 66, but not always depending on what we need from the application. We would not degrade our plastics by using a % of plastic regrinds in the formula (this severely impacts strength, as we learned the hard way long ago.). Anytime we need to look at different supplier or type of plastic, we do a rigorous testing loop to ensure we are not losing anything by the switch.

Bantam handles are still made overseas, with locally sourced Nylon
I don't remember any 442 handles (or parts for that matter, maybe rivets) made from overseas parts. But that was awhile ago, so I don't remember off the top of my head). The plastic listed on the print Is Polypropylene
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Jeff,
I'd like to ask you a final question as the quality manager.

Buck Knives states the BOS Heat Treatment on their 420HC gives a standard hardness of 58rc on the American blades.This same heat treatment hardness of 58rc is advertised on the blister packaging on specific (like the Selkirk Series,Trigger,old/overseas Bantam) China models by Buck that state they are using 420HC also.What isolates these two heat treatments from each other if you guys are stating an identical rockwell hardness?
 
Frotier76 said:
That's exactly my point...makes using the Paul Bos marketing approach rhetorical.
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I believe this may not be 100% true technically but I think the general problem you raise is valid.

Technically, I think there is more to heat treatment than just the resulting hardness. There is also the temper and resulting brittleness or toughness of the steel. It is entirely possible that the US-based BOS heat treat of 420HC is better than Buck's Chinese 420HC. Or maybe they're the same. Who's to know?

Buck will stay quiet on this point or should because any further discussion isn't good. If they say that BOS treated 420HC is better, then we're right to see the imported knives as sub par.

If they say they're the same, then the value of BOS branded heat treat is diminished.

I think it may have been safer for Buck to limit steels for the imported knives to steels that don't get BOS heat treat at home. This would largely side step the question and help protect the brand value of the BOS heat treat, IMO.
 
I think what they do is the USA blades are done by BOS while the Chinese blades are done in China using the same process that BOS uses. The BOS name becomes a guarantee and promise of consistent quality and results even if you have the same process if the people doing the process are not as experienced in general or with the specific process you may not get quiet the same results. I don't think the BOS name becomes worthless if the China HT is "equal" to the BOS as it may only be equal in principle not necessarily in practice. I might be talking out my backside here or have worded things such that they seem that way.
 
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Maybe the chinese 420hc comes from buck usa for the knives. Maybe 420j2 originates from china
Buck lists j2 as basic steel

420J2 STAINLESS STEEL
General-purpose stainless steel. 420J2 is well suited for routine applications, is easily sharpened, and offers a great blend of hardness and wear resistance
 
PirateSeulb said:
I think what they do is the USA blades are done by BOS while the Chinese blades are done in China using the same process that BOS uses. The BOS name becomes a guarantee and promise of consistent quality and results even if you have the same process if the people doing the process are not as experienced in general or with the specific process you may not get quiet the same results. I don't think the BOS name becomes worthless if the China HT is "equal" to the BOS as it may only be equal in principle not necessarily in practice. I might be talking out my backside here or have worded things such that they seem that way.
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Given that Buck has been burned by loss of intellectual property rights in China in the past, I'll wager a beer that they do NOT give out the proprietary formula to the BOS heat treatment for 420HC.
 
Makael said:
Maybe the chinese 420hc comes from buck usa for the knives.
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If that's the case, they would be labeled BOS heat treated, I would think.

More likely is that they are using a Chinese steel that is close enough to 420HC to warrant the labeling and that the heat treat process does get it to 58RC without using the full BOS treatment.

I find it sad they use 420J2
 
There are several methods of heat treating to get to a specific rockwell. Rockwell hardness measurement is only one piece of the puzzle. It is an indication of the blade hardness, but has nothing to do with brittleness, grain structure anomolies etc..
Heat treating consists of Heat treating, Quench and Temper. 3 steps most times. You can look all this info up in standard heat treating books. you all are correct in that I won't provide specifics. :)
 
I am sorry but my geopolitical worldview is such that I will buy American made knives. I prefer not to buy anything Chinese if possible.

I know it is not always possible to buy American but there are many very well made American knives to choose from.
 
Frotier76 said:
That's exactly my point...makes using the Paul Bos marketing approach rhetorical.
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You ask a lot of borderline insulting questions, plus request information that many firms would consider proprietary. You pose your proprietary questions in such a way as to make Buck seem inferior if you don't get the answer you are looking for. What's your agenda? Enjoy "stirring the pot?" Work for a competitor of Buck? Or are you just a character from Big Bang Theory? :)
 
pinnah said:
If that's the case, they would be labeled BOS heat treated, I would think.

More likely is that they are using a Chinese steel that is close enough to 420HC to warrant the labeling and that the heat treat process does get it to 58RC without using the full BOS treatment.

I find it sad they use 420J2
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I would go with that as well on the Chinese steel approach.Why shell out import taxes to ship 420HC when it's practically an international steel made anywhere in one form or another. Krupp 4034 (Germany),AUS-4 (Japan),5Cr13MoV (China)...very common for worldwide knife manufacturing use.
 
Frotier76 said:
I would go with that as well on the Chinese steel approach.Why shell out import taxes to ship 420HC when it's practically an international steel made anywhere in one form or another. Krupp 4034 (Germany),AUS-4 (Japan),5Cr13MoV (China)...very common for worldwide knife manufacturing use.
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Of course you would. We expect no less.
 
I kinda want a Chinese made Buck just to have one in the collection. Guess I’ll have to start looking for one on the Bay.
 
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