Wusthof, Henckles, Cutco, Sabatier

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Hey all, i'm new to this forum, and yes i am a cutco rep, haha, but i've been reading up on some stuff, and it seems quite interesting. So... bout the questions on cutco, i do have some info.
What is the composition of CUTCO’s high carbon stainless steel blade?
CUTCO is produced from AISI (American Iron and Steel Institute) Type 440A high carbon stainless steel. The chemical composition of 440A stainless is:
Chromium 16 – 18% corrosion resistance.
Carbon .60 – .75% balance between hardness and brittleness.
Molybdenum .75% Aids in hardening and improves corrosion
resistance.
Manganese 1%Adds strength and hardening capability of the
steel.
Iron 78% Base material in all steels.
Our rockwell hardness is: 55-57. the more flexible knives are 55, most are 57.
the process is heating, cryogenic freezing, and then an 8 hr reheating process.
Yes i know our blades are stamped and we therefore have no bolsters, thus making the knife weak where the steel meets the handle, and also less balanced. but i think the steel quality itself is just fine.
As for the handle, i'd say that really is a preference issue, as i've seen some ppl love it, and others hate it. it is dishwasher safe tho, so that's again low maintetnance.
The double-d edge, i think does work pretty well compared to other serrated edges, and is quite low maintenance, but of course it's not going to work as nice as a well maintained straight edge.
the extreme price? i think it's due to three things: the forever guarantee, the common person's lack of interest in properly maintaining a knife, and imperfect information by the general consumer.
overall, i'd say cutco is an inferior product to any other high-quality brand of well maintained knives. So, for the chef or knife enthousiast, obviously they'll be fine maintaining their knvies.
however, i think cutco is great for people who either don't know how or are just too lazy to maintain their knives, and don't want to spend time shopping for new knives in the future either, but would rahter just send 'em in to cutco and get them replaced. cuz i think we'd agree that a dull double-d edge can outperform any dull straight edge right?
aight sorry for my long post, but that's my thoughts on cutco knives, lemme know how that stands k? cuz honselty i don't want to sell knives if they won't benefit ANYONE. but i still think cutco knives are great for certain consumers. but lmeme know if i'm wrong! hope the info helped!
 
Thanks for that info! I wasn't falling asleep at all. I heard elsewhere on the forums that Cutco was made of 440-A. Tiger said 410. I suspect the 440-A is correct. I don't think 410 can be hardended anywhere near what a blade needs. 410 is used for guards and boldters on many a custom knife
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Believe it. I resharpened some that were handed down to me. They had their serration edge ground off sometime in the past. They are lousy steel. Real, real lousy. I threw them away and use my 1095 "Old Hickory" knives which will rust but can cut, cut, and cut some more. I believe in having the right tool for the job but couldn't imagine cutco ever being that tool for me or my family. I'd rather depend on handfulls of sporks taken from taco bell.

There are some Made in Japan Blue "super" steel knives, and some laminated very high tech knives that go for the price of a complete set of cutcos I'd look at if I was a professional chef but my 1095 steel knives work fine for me. The most expensive one by itself was about 12 dollars and I wouldn't trade it for a free set of cutcos. Joe L.
 
Meh, choose the three or four knife sizes/styles you like then get a maker from here to knock them out for you.

Good steel, good grinds and F&F and most important, good heat treat.
 
Crapola 2002 JFC! How do people even find these things without a paintbrush and a dental pick?
 
you might alo want to check out Shun knives. I have a 10" checf's knfe from them that is great. It has a vg-10 core covered by stainless damascus type steel.

just make sure that you get the right-handed model if you are right handed (and vice versa). Also, they aren't as comfortable as some others if you use a 'pinch grip' when chopping things because the back of the blade isn't rounded off like some others.
 
Forging is used in kitchen cutlery to form a bolster. So bolstered knives are forged and those without bolsters are blocked. It's that simple. It has nothing to do with quality. Is full tang good? Not necessarily. It isn't a big deal in kitchen cutlery. Same with rivets. The brands you mention are all good quality. The Cutco are very overpriced for what they are, however.

The very best kitchen cutlery is made in Japan. Harder thinner blades with better balance without full bolsters which get in the way of sharpening. Check out Shun, Kasumi, Global, Mac and others which are in the same price ball park as the ones you are considering. Look at Suisin, Kikuichi, Masamoto and others for the absolute ultimate in kitchen cutlery. Good luck with the quest.
 
My wife let a Cutco salesman come to the house. She only bought a pizza cutter though, thank god. It is very nice as pizza cutters go. Anyway we have both Wustof and Henckels chef knives. Mine is the Wustof, I love it, better shape. She is not allowed to use it because of past knife abuse. Global has a good rep among professionals. I am interested in the Shun Ken Onion knife, it looks cool anyway, don't know about performance.
 
etiger13 said:
about cutco
The [Cutco] steel is 410 Stainless and the Rockwell hardness is 53-56.
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Isn't it a crappy steel even for a cheap knife ?

How can anyone justify to pay $2,000.00 for the set of knives made of 410 Stainless steel with Rockwell hardness is 53-56?

Sounds like a joke.

Mark
 
I was given a set of Cutco's for a wedding gift over 25 yrs. ago and they are still in use today. (along with a couple of globals) So when I talk about their quality I'm speaking from experience, not second hand info. Cutco makes an excellent knife, has an outstanding guarantee, and will last for years. Would I buy Cutco myself? - No, but not because of the quality - I wouldn't buy them because they are priced way too high. (BTW-Vector Corp, which owns Cutco also owns Ka-Bar knives)

In case anyone is interested, here's some info from the Cutco website.
http://www.cutco.com/jsp/company/story.jsp

Cutco blades are stamped out of 440A high-carbon stainless steel.

Heat Treating - transforms soft blades into hard blades, creating the best balance of hardness, flexibility, rust and stain resistance, and edge retention. CUTCO uses a three-step heat-treating process:

Heat treating in belt furnace
Cryogenic (deep freeze)
Draw temper in walk-in oven
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jasonwilldermood said:
My wife let a Cutco salesman come to the house. She only bought a pizza cutter though, thank god. It is very nice as pizza cutters go. Anyway we have both Wustof and Henckels chef knives. Mine is the Wustof, I love it, better shape. She is not allowed to use it because of past knife abuse. Global has a good rep among professionals. I am interested in the Shun Ken Onion knife, it looks cool anyway, don't know about performance.
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My fiance and me have a similar thing with my knives your knives after some bad use of my Japanese knife.... :mad:

Some of the japanese knives I've tried are very hard and have somewhat brittle edges. They cut extremely well, but don't like abuse at all....

I worked at a resturant a few years ago and most chefs who bought their own bought Victorinox knives because of good price/performance ratio.

I just got some Spydercos and I love 'em, priced very nice and cut great. They aren't much to look at though, but I prefer them over Victorinox.
 
xbboychink said:
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Are you truly comparing apples to apples? Remember, cutco is stamped blades and the high end henckels are forged. If you look for the henckels stamped blades, you'll find much, much cheaper sets.

As a side note, new cutco knives can be purchased from ebay far more reasonably priced than direct...lots of reps selling their sample kits, too. However, I doubt that there are people here who would even pay the ebay prices for cutco.
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Crayola said:
I also wouldn't like to get a Cutco blade without knowing the materials it is made from. Tiger, there is a difference between kitchen blades made of 01, 440-A and 420J2SS. What are the Cutcos made of? What are their Rockwell numbers? THis kind of information is important to me. And if it is important to say colobbfan, then a Cutco dealer's inability to tell colobbfan is another disadvantage of the whole Cutco Sales pitch.

Please don't take this as a personal attack. I am glad you have come to the forums, because the more people that come here, the more I learn.
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I am a cutco rep and from the experience of going into over 200 homes and seeing the knives that people use I would say that Cutco is an excellent investment. Yes, they are marked up... but so are Henckels (every step of the way from factory to store). Let's not pretend otherwise.

Cutco is made from stamped 440A that is heat treated using the same process as Kabar (kabar is made at the cutco factory). In other words, the steel is heated under 2,000 flames for 1 hour, then it is quenched in a cryo-chamber @ -120F and finally it is backed back up to 356F for something like 18hrs. It takes 6 weeks for one cutco knife to be made. They are very high quality and are 57 on the rockwell scale.

The handles are made from thermoresin, a material more expensive and durable than the polypropelene found in henckels and wustof. I can't tell you how many wustof I've seen with cracked or melted handles.

The double D edge stays sharp for 7-10 years, but my neighbor has had hers for 20 and they are still razor sharp. It all depends on the cutting surface (never use glass or ceramic) and how often the knives are used. You can't go wrong with a forever guarantee.


Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you guys.:)
 
Raining said:
Are you truly comparing apples to apples? Remember, cutco is stamped blades and the high end henckels are forged. If you look for the henckels stamped blades, you'll find much, much cheaper sets.

As a side note, new cutco knives can be purchased from ebay far more reasonably priced than direct...lots of reps selling their sample kits, too. However, I doubt that there are people here who would even pay the ebay prices for cutco.
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I would rather have a high end stamped knife than one that is partially forged and then welded at the bolster.
 
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