-
All For Sale threads must have a pic showing the knife being sold with written date listed, your username & Bladeforums or BFC to prevent photo harvesting from elsewhere - scammers hate this one trick! The rules for The Exchange can be found here. Please read and follow them. Stop using Paypal Friends & Family and follow our best practices to prevent getting ripped off or having a bad deal.
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is available! Price is $250 ea (shipped within CONUS).
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/
You people
- Thread starter thatoneguy01
- Start date
- Status
Didn't you just recently refuse to post one of your designs because you didn't want anyone to steal it? Stealing is OK as long as its not from you, right?
Again, I couldn't care less what other hobbyists find normal. I also don't think if you go on a Rolex forum they will be cool with promoting fakes.
The whole "other people do it so its fine" line of reasoning is ridiculous.
For the record, Microtech childishly stealing one of ZTs designs and their horrendous CS are several of the reasons I'll knever own one. And Schrade.. non merci en plus.
^ I definitely have to agree with your rationale on this, Armadew! :thumbup:
Edit:
Of course they are.
^ :thumbup:
RevDevil, also summed this up nicely. :thumbup:
Last edited:
"Steal" is your emotionally charged word for a narrow set of behaviors. You don't use it when you type on Windows, that was adapted from Apple and Xerox. You don't use it when you open your non-Walker LinerLock. You choose to use it when it suits you.
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2000
- Messages
- 90,915
A lightweight troll posted a few lines here, ranting about other peoples taste in knives. He hasn't been back since that original post. What's to discuss?
The clearest sign of a useless discussion is failure of the group to agree on what the topic is.
The clearest sign of a useless discussion is failure of the group to agree on what the topic is.
May I ask why you decided to post the troll's thread in GBU and asked people to be polite about discussing it? Where you hoping for a different type of discussion, rather than discussing exactly what the OP was upset enough to write about?
"Borrowing without permission" is what happens when you decide to put something out in public. If every company with a design they were afraid someone was going to copy them, they wouldn't put it out in the first place. A patent is just a tool to encourage inventors rather than keeping everything to themselves. Its protection is no less important than its expiration. Think about that next time you're buying generic (stolen) prescription medication.
This is the way the world works, and for good reason. You can't patent a knife shape. Think about how ultimately unimportant it must be compared to all the other factors in the knife business that the government doesn't offer any protection at all.
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2013
- Messages
- 7,184
Ooooh, this looks like fun. I'll play.
A few thoughts on copying the knife design of another company.
Did you know that several of the paid sponsors of Bladeforums sell copies? Not only does Bladeforums accept money from those vendors in exchange for having their businesses promoted on this forum, but the moderators here regularly recommend that the members of Bladeforums buy knives from those vendors.
Here are a few links from Knifecenter.com, a paid BF sponsor, and a popular vendor among many here at BF-
Now tell me that the two knives below are not direct copies of the Buck 110? I find it hard to believe that Schrade coincidentally designed a knife out of thin air that just happens to be an almost identical copy of one of the most popular knives in the history of knives.
http://www2.knifecenter.com/item/SC...paw-lockback-folding-knife-blade-wood-handles
http://www2.knifecenter.com/item/SC...-5-inch-Closed-Lockback-Stainless-Steel-Blade
And here are a few links from another BF sponsor- Bladeplay.com/Bladehq.com-
Now tell me that the first link, a United Cutlery Honshu Fighter, that costs $38, isn't a copy of the next link, a Cold Steel Tai Pan, that costs over $300. Or again, am I supposed to believe that United just happened to design a knife that is almost identical to a much more expensive knife?
http://www.Bladeplay.com/item--United-Cutlery-Honshu-Fighter-I-DE--9086
http://www.bladehq.com/item--Cold-Stelel-Tai-Pan-Fixed--5150
And that's just two examples, and two paid sponsors of Bladeforums. Many more sell the same knives, and the same brands.
And in case you didn't know, the owner of Bladeforums also sells that very same United Honshu Fighter in his knife store, which is also on the list of paid sponsors.
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with copies. I don't think those companies that make them, or the vendors who sell them, are doing anything wrong, or that they should feel the least bit ashamed of themselves or what they sell.
But all this begs the question- if anyone here feels so strongly that "copies" hurt the knife industry, hurt the knife community, and that selling copies is something despicable, and if you feel so strongly about the theft of "intellectual property", does that mean you are going to leave Bladeforums and end your membership here? After all, like I said, Bladeforums is owned by someone who sells copies, and Bladeforums is in business with vendors who sell copies, and those vendors who sell copies are being OFFICIALLY promoted on this forum.
As for me, I'm going to stick around.
And for the record, I draw a clear distinction between "copies" and "counterfeits". And I feel very differently about them. This post was about "copies".
Very very interesting perspective. Never thought about that BF sponsors companies that sell copies.
The topic does not fit into any other section. It's called trying to steer things back on topic. People have the right to their opinion, even if it is a myopic strawman or a self serving red herring. This is a common reaction when the people that love counterfeit products are not embraced with open arms and warm snuzzles by the community. The forums owner has made his position on counterfeits/clones/knock offs known, as has the manufacturers that have forums here (Spyderco, Chris Reeve, Busse, Emerson, and many others). It would be collectively spitting in their very face if we decided to have a "Love me some counterfeit items" section or forum, wouldn't it?
*Rhetorical question, I don't need a reply.
^ Oh they'll be a reply!
" It would be collectively spitting in their very face if we decided to have a "Love me some counterfeit items" section or forum, wouldn't it?"
^ You couldn't have stated it any better IMO, RD!
Last edited:
What company in their right mind would put out a product if they were guaranteed to have copied, sold for a lower price and misrepresented as the original and had no recourse to these actions if they were harmed? The fact that action is not taken doesnt not mean it is not due.
Trade Dress. Its protectable, registerable, is very much like a registered trademark.
"Trade dress is the overall commercial image (look and feel) of a product that indicates or identifies the source of the product and distinguishes it from those of others. It may include the design or shape/configuration of a product; product labeling and packaging"
Even if a product is unregistered its trade dress can be protected and infringing upon a products trade dress is illegal 15 U.S.C. § 1125(a).
Every company puts out a product that they expect to be copied! Did you ever fly in a non-Wright Brothers brand airplane, take a generic drug or play a home video game that didn't say "Atari" on it.
Walker invented the liner lock - we now have liner locks everywhere. Bill Moran invents "damascus" style pattern welded steel, got that everywhere. Sal comes up with pocket clips, Chris makes the frame lock.
And you might be one of the many people sitting at home flipping your Kershaw damascus frame lock with pocket clip as you congratulate yourself on how moral you are, even though every single exciting feature of your knife is "stolen". But it isn't stolen, it is just the way technology works.
You are also welcome to claim that a knife that says "Ganzo" on it and looks a little like some as a knife costing 5 times more is "hurting" the original - but no one can post a single study demonstrating that. In fact, it may be the opposite:
http://freakonomics.com/2012/09/05/why-knockoffs-can-help-a-strong-brand/
I will tell you that CRK has probably sold more Sebenzas because of the Sanrenmu 7010 than lost sales. They simply aren't competitors, and maintaining this fiction that they are is hard when United Cutlery clones of Cold Steel products are being sold by forum sponsors.
I need an Anacin.
^ Spot on, Maven! :thumbup:
It's mind boggling, the counterfeiting that goes on around the World. Companies can only do so much to combat this enormous problem, & in many instances, unfortunately it's more cost effective for these companies to simply ignore this problem & look the other way.
When I was living abroad over in the PI, practically everywhere you went, there were vendor's selling counterfeit goods; everything from high end watches, cell phones, clothing, music, movies Viagra, Cialis...you name it! My all-time favorite (I wish that I'd saved the picture I took), was a tube of Crest toothpaste. The box looked identical! The only difference being: instead of the word "CREST," being written on the box, it was replaced by the word, 'CRUST." It was one of the funniest counterfeit item's I've seen.
Needless to say, I didn't care enough to say the 50 pesos, & start brushing my teeth with an improvised Chinese formula of toothpaste.
^ Excellent information! :thumbup:
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, regarding this subject. I for one, have zero respect, for a person who buys a blatant counterfeit knockoff of any maker/company, & then have the audacity to brag about it!
A year or two ago, there were a couple of incendiary thread's that popped up here. A few member's even posted pictures of their counterfeit Hinderer's, & a couple of other brands, then bragged about the quality, & the money they saved. Just like here in this thread, emotions started running high.
Fortunately, the Mod's shut those offensively stupid thread's down. :thumbup:
- Status