Same here.
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Your Opinion of Sanrenmu Knives
- Thread starter cowhorse01
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Same here.
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Chris "Anagarika";8663308 said:710 is sebenza lookalike, not BM 710 lookalike. The Land 962 is he one with axis lock. If you want to make a statement, at least get he fact right
I do repect your choice to support your economy. Each has to make his own decision.
Read the post again, I never said it was,
My point was that even the model number seems like a rip off being that it is the model number of a very popular american knife.
Get it?
So heed your own advice.
A little reading goes a long way.
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Funny how an American company could copy an another American companies design for years and draw no fire. And yes now the shameless copy of the Buck 110 is made in China, so why not get upset about that too?
Good points.
Just wait til the SRM folks get their act really together and set up shop, meaning set up a corporation in the US, and start importing the stuff for sale in the retail sector here.
At that point, where will the SRM bashers be, and what will they say?
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Their smaller models are named 7** and larger ones are 9**. They have a model 704, 709, 711, and so on also. It is just the 710 that gets the most attention.
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Just use some mineral oil on the 710, they open really nice afterward. I just took a small scrap of paper, dipped in mineral oil, and applied.
Opens fast and sweet afterward. Checking out more.
QUOTE]
The mineral oil took all the gritty feeling out the 710. Rem-Oil didn't touch it. I had washed them and sterilized in alcohol first too btw. The 710 needed a HEAVY lube on the pivot. Thanks!
The 962 is a rock solid two hander though. That SOB, I heard another member post that his flicked open as easy as a BM axs - not my experience. :barf:
Heh. Indeed, the argument that buying Chinese hurts America grows weaker as international interconnectedness gets more complex.
When they can't make a reasoned argument against someone's position, they're perfectly satisfied with a personal attack. I've experienced this first hand many a time since I've been a member.
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If you want to be upset about these clone-ish knives coming out of Hong Kong, then be really upset that nearly 100% of American based name brands have moved all or most of their manufacturing over to China. Taking the jobs Americans relied on with them. Then be mad as hell that the American people bought these goods, because they were so much cheaper than we can make here. I mean gosh, just roll it all together and really stew about the entire mess
! Makes no sense to apply all that anger just towards one aspect of the problem.
! Makes no sense to apply all that anger just towards one aspect of the problem.
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Well, I finally got my Sanrenmu 710 in the mail yesterday. Now I can decide for myself whether I think it lives up to all the hoopla. Here are my thoughts so far.
The knife came nicely packaged, with no damage to the packing. Not everything I’ve ever received has been packaged this well.
Taking it out of the box, it looked pretty good . . . but that doesn’t always mean anything. I gave it a very close inspection, and was very impressed with the fit and finish, which is better than some knives I have which cost much more. Others have commented on this, which is one of the things that prompted me to buy this knife, but you never really appreciate just how good it is until you hold the knife yourself.
Everything is tight, the edges are all smoothed, the clip is well attached, and the blade is very well centered. The movement of the blade when opening is a little tighter than I would like, but I suspect that a little mineral oil will cure that. When fully opened the blade snaps into position with a satisfying click as the lock snaps into position. Now, I’ve never been a big fan of frame locks or liner locks, but this one is very strong and solid, engaging about half the width of the blade, and providing a good, solid lockup. When in the open position, there is zero play in the blade: none; not in any direction, period. Pretty remarkable for many knives, incredible one that only costs $10 shipped.
As it arrived, the blade was pretty sharp by most reasonable standards, but not by mine. One of the first things I did was to work it over on the DMT’s to bring it up to the level that I like. How good does it get? Well, I don’t know just how sharp I can get it, because I had to stop to attend to other things. Right now, using only the stones, it’s hair popping sharp: what it will be after a few passes on the strop is anybody’s guess, but I imagine it will scare the hair off my arm. This steel easily takes a very, very good edge, folks, without too much effort. How long it will hold that edge, I can’t say, because I have yet to do any real cutting with it: we’ll see.
Overall, I’m extremely impressed with, and pleased by, this knife.
Now, I’ve heard those who are looking for ways to denigrate this knife say things like “yeah, but it doesn’t have the same materials as a $400 insert knife name here, so it’s junk.” Really? Junk? That, to me, is a patently absurd statement. No, the blade isn’t the latest super whiz-bang miracle steel, but it is a very good steel in its own right. Many here are into the latest super steels, and are willing to pay a bit more for them, but let’s be honest: we’re a very small minority. The 8CR14MOV steel used in this knife is way beyond what the average consumer understands: they just want to know if it’s sharp enough to cut with, and if it will last. You could name the steel Marvin or Mary, for all they care: to them, steel is steel. Well, those people are in luck, because this is a good — not the best, but very good — steel. The rest of the knife is also made of good materials. No, you don’t get bragging rights to Titanium frames, but you do get good, solid stainless steel frames that are going to last a very long time.
It’s a bloody shame that no American manufacturers can produce a knife this good at this price. If it were produced in the United States, it would probably cost 8 or 10 times more. Much of that has to do with the value of the dollar vs the Yuan (but that’s another story), and has nothing to do with American know-how.
Overall, I’m extremely impressed with this knife. Forget politics for a moment, and just consider the quality of the knife itself, and I think you'd have to admit that the 710 is one truly fine knife: for $10, it’s simply incredible.
The knife came nicely packaged, with no damage to the packing. Not everything I’ve ever received has been packaged this well.
Taking it out of the box, it looked pretty good . . . but that doesn’t always mean anything. I gave it a very close inspection, and was very impressed with the fit and finish, which is better than some knives I have which cost much more. Others have commented on this, which is one of the things that prompted me to buy this knife, but you never really appreciate just how good it is until you hold the knife yourself.
Everything is tight, the edges are all smoothed, the clip is well attached, and the blade is very well centered. The movement of the blade when opening is a little tighter than I would like, but I suspect that a little mineral oil will cure that. When fully opened the blade snaps into position with a satisfying click as the lock snaps into position. Now, I’ve never been a big fan of frame locks or liner locks, but this one is very strong and solid, engaging about half the width of the blade, and providing a good, solid lockup. When in the open position, there is zero play in the blade: none; not in any direction, period. Pretty remarkable for many knives, incredible one that only costs $10 shipped.
As it arrived, the blade was pretty sharp by most reasonable standards, but not by mine. One of the first things I did was to work it over on the DMT’s to bring it up to the level that I like. How good does it get? Well, I don’t know just how sharp I can get it, because I had to stop to attend to other things. Right now, using only the stones, it’s hair popping sharp: what it will be after a few passes on the strop is anybody’s guess, but I imagine it will scare the hair off my arm. This steel easily takes a very, very good edge, folks, without too much effort. How long it will hold that edge, I can’t say, because I have yet to do any real cutting with it: we’ll see.
Overall, I’m extremely impressed with, and pleased by, this knife.
Now, I’ve heard those who are looking for ways to denigrate this knife say things like “yeah, but it doesn’t have the same materials as a $400 insert knife name here, so it’s junk.” Really? Junk? That, to me, is a patently absurd statement. No, the blade isn’t the latest super whiz-bang miracle steel, but it is a very good steel in its own right. Many here are into the latest super steels, and are willing to pay a bit more for them, but let’s be honest: we’re a very small minority. The 8CR14MOV steel used in this knife is way beyond what the average consumer understands: they just want to know if it’s sharp enough to cut with, and if it will last. You could name the steel Marvin or Mary, for all they care: to them, steel is steel. Well, those people are in luck, because this is a good — not the best, but very good — steel. The rest of the knife is also made of good materials. No, you don’t get bragging rights to Titanium frames, but you do get good, solid stainless steel frames that are going to last a very long time.
It’s a bloody shame that no American manufacturers can produce a knife this good at this price. If it were produced in the United States, it would probably cost 8 or 10 times more. Much of that has to do with the value of the dollar vs the Yuan (but that’s another story), and has nothing to do with American know-how.
Overall, I’m extremely impressed with this knife. Forget politics for a moment, and just consider the quality of the knife itself, and I think you'd have to admit that the 710 is one truly fine knife: for $10, it’s simply incredible.
TheCarbideRat
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If you want to be upset about these clone-ish knives coming out of Hong Kong, then be really upset that nearly 100% of American based name brands have moved all or most of their manufacturing over to China. Taking the jobs Americans relied on with them. Then be mad as hell that the American people bought these goods, because they were so much cheaper than we can make here. I mean gosh, just roll it all together and really stew about the entire mess
Very logical, I would add the strife in China now as yet one more factor. There is outright slave labor, indentured servitude, economic violence of several varieties going down there now in the post Mao era. Lots of people working for pennies, gettting sick or their mom gets sick, they still can't get the dough for a doctor and BAM, dead. Not saying Mao solved anything, just my take on what I have gleaned from looking around a little.
Yes, the 710 looks quite a bit like the small Sebenza. An Alias does as well (not to the same degree, but still), and nobody gets a heart attack over it. Benchmade offers blades with spyderholes and the discussions about that are long forgotten.
In this case it is a cheap knife made for the local market (there is no widescale import in the west, as far I can see), and it does that job well. I can't imagine this 710 stealing orders from CRK.
People focus so much on this one, and indeed next to the 710 there are a few other "inspired by" knives, but in addition the brand has a lot of original designs, or at least a lot of designs that at least I can't map to a well known western design.
By the way, I don't have a small Sebenza (perhaps one day, it's a matter of taste...) but I examined them often enough. It must be said that despite the visual resemblance, they do feel quite different in the hand. And I don't mean that the SRM is junk, those who say so have clearly not tried one. Another interesting thing about the 710: if I am not mistaken the handle is made from the same steel as the blade, which ensures that it won't easily scratch!
In the perception of any sane person, I am a knife nut with far too many and often expensive knives. Yet I still like to try new brands, and while I have high end knives, I can just as easily appreciate a Mora or an Opinel. Now I am glad that I found Sanrenmu to try.
Regarding the axis lock, they make open reference to the "patented Benchmade design" on their website. I don't think we should blindly assume that Sanrenmu uses this design without permission. Perhaps they have permission for mainland China where a "real" BM is unaffordable. Perhaps they made at least some of the "red class" BM products. I don't know, and nobody here knows. I prefer not to assume too quickly.
About:
In this case it is a cheap knife made for the local market (there is no widescale import in the west, as far I can see), and it does that job well. I can't imagine this 710 stealing orders from CRK.
People focus so much on this one, and indeed next to the 710 there are a few other "inspired by" knives, but in addition the brand has a lot of original designs, or at least a lot of designs that at least I can't map to a well known western design.
By the way, I don't have a small Sebenza (perhaps one day, it's a matter of taste...) but I examined them often enough. It must be said that despite the visual resemblance, they do feel quite different in the hand. And I don't mean that the SRM is junk, those who say so have clearly not tried one. Another interesting thing about the 710: if I am not mistaken the handle is made from the same steel as the blade, which ensures that it won't easily scratch!
In the perception of any sane person, I am a knife nut with far too many and often expensive knives. Yet I still like to try new brands, and while I have high end knives, I can just as easily appreciate a Mora or an Opinel. Now I am glad that I found Sanrenmu to try.
Regarding the axis lock, they make open reference to the "patented Benchmade design" on their website. I don't think we should blindly assume that Sanrenmu uses this design without permission. Perhaps they have permission for mainland China where a "real" BM is unaffordable. Perhaps they made at least some of the "red class" BM products. I don't know, and nobody here knows. I prefer not to assume too quickly.
About:
Well, next to these 2 there is also that "Black Fox" which is identical to the SRM 730. In all three cases these are part of the affordable made-in-China entry level products from western brands. It's far more logical to assume that SRM makes these knives for the western companies than to assume that these are copies. If you're going to copy, you'd rather copy an expensive western design like the Sebenza (which they were clearly inspired by), or a Strider or Hinderer or Military or... or... than copy an entry level chinese-made knife.
I'm sorry, but I seriously doubt the veracity of your statements. Have you even been to China lately? Most Chinese cities are way more modern than American cities, same for their systems of transportation and telecom, and the pace of development is just phenomenal. While it may be true that labor costs much less than the US, terms like 'slave labor', indentured servitude' and 'economic violence' are just hyperbole.
It would benefit Americans greatly to learn more about China first-hand, instead of consuming almost propaganda-level information that ill-serves America as a whole.
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I've seen documentaries about factories in China and they do work long hours for low pay at very hard fast paced work which amounts to piece work for low hourly wages. But, that has really nothing to do with the knife its self, or does it?
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Good point and it also has little to do with the people. My neighbor has traveled through that country and others extensively and assures me that the people there are among some of the happiest and contented of any he visited. For such a suffering people you'd never know it from most of them from what I hear. I think sometimes we tend to impose our own value systems on others as if it should be theirs.
STR
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if that's what you think, you have either not been around long enough or don't read enough.
People like to be honest, honorable, respectful, hero-like, when it suits them and they like to show it off. But they also cheat, take advantage of others and let greed run crazy, when it works better for them.
We cry that government betrayed us and corporations sold us out, outsourced the jobs overseas and so on.
Look at the car manufacturers. Here are USA CEOs making bad decisions, loosing money for the company, but still making millions in salaries and bonuses. Somebody still supports them though. How dare those bad CEOs and government make a decision to move the jobs out of the country so they can satisfy their greed and get more money for themselves. Point a finger and blame them. And then... this (or another) CEO comes and says that there is a need to cut a starting salary of a plant worker from $30/hour to $15/hour. What an outrage. Who cares that competing foreign factories in US on average pays even less than that. This is still not good. Such a cut is still a big inconvenience. Who cares that there is a person who agrees to do this job even for less. Thank god for Unions that are here to protect against those poor bastards. Bring back $30/hour and don't dare to close the factory, even if it is loosing money. God save America.
Then, this $30/hour paid plant worker goes and says that we should NOT buy Chinese goods! They are cheap and good, but have other hidden costs. If enough people come together and maybe form another union, that buys only American, maybe the poor plant worker can have his $30/hour job longer, even if other people won't be able to buy as much stuff. What? You have lost your job? You really should give unemployment a try. Check out section 8 housing, food stamps program, medicare, etc... Let government pay for this. They are the ones who stole the job.
Back to knives...
Sanrenmu really should adjust the "inspiration" level and come up with more original designs.
We cry that government betrayed us and corporations sold us out, outsourced the jobs overseas and so on.
Look at the car manufacturers. Here are USA CEOs making bad decisions, loosing money for the company, but still making millions in salaries and bonuses. Somebody still supports them though. How dare those bad CEOs and government make a decision to move the jobs out of the country so they can satisfy their greed and get more money for themselves. Point a finger and blame them. And then... this (or another) CEO comes and says that there is a need to cut a starting salary of a plant worker from $30/hour to $15/hour. What an outrage. Who cares that competing foreign factories in US on average pays even less than that. This is still not good. Such a cut is still a big inconvenience. Who cares that there is a person who agrees to do this job even for less. Thank god for Unions that are here to protect against those poor bastards. Bring back $30/hour and don't dare to close the factory, even if it is loosing money. God save America.
Then, this $30/hour paid plant worker goes and says that we should NOT buy Chinese goods! They are cheap and good, but have other hidden costs. If enough people come together and maybe form another union, that buys only American, maybe the poor plant worker can have his $30/hour job longer, even if other people won't be able to buy as much stuff. What? You have lost your job? You really should give unemployment a try. Check out section 8 housing, food stamps program, medicare, etc... Let government pay for this. They are the ones who stole the job.
Back to knives...
Sanrenmu really should adjust the "inspiration" level and come up with more original designs.
TheCarbideRat
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There's winners and losers in China's booming economy, for all the winning done the price has to get paid somewhere by someone. You think wealth actually gets created from thin air? It gets extracted is what happens.
If anyone gives a good GD about Chinese factory workers/ truck drivers / miners etc. there are investigative reports for viewing. One is called inside the dragon by Seirei. I agree that economic conditions have improved alot there in the past 5 years and I was in China 11 years ago so I'm a little outdated, and consider myself a slave where others won't but there are alot of poor people there getting banged around for sure.
[EDIT] SORRY for off topic post, but the connection between cheap goods / cheap labor and economic violence does exist.
There was alot of abuse and loss, including loss of life in China's past, it's well known, so now and recently there is a boom, and that makes it all better? All that has passed ... down the memory hole now I suppose. The bright shining cities with the smiling people.
I'll probably shut up now
If anyone gives a good GD about Chinese factory workers/ truck drivers / miners etc. there are investigative reports for viewing. One is called inside the dragon by Seirei. I agree that economic conditions have improved alot there in the past 5 years and I was in China 11 years ago so I'm a little outdated, and consider myself a slave where others won't but there are alot of poor people there getting banged around for sure.
[EDIT] SORRY for off topic post, but the connection between cheap goods / cheap labor and economic violence does exist.
There was alot of abuse and loss, including loss of life in China's past, it's well known, so now and recently there is a boom, and that makes it all better? All that has passed ... down the memory hole now I suppose. The bright shining cities with the smiling people.
I'll probably shut up now
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Funny how an American company could copy an another American companies design for years and draw no fire. And yes now the shameless copy of the Buck 110 is made in China, so why not get upset about that too?
For the record, I would never buy any knife of that design other than the Buck 110.
I care about honoring the original creator of the design. Had I been a knifeknut back when the 110 was current, and all those companies copied it, I would have called them all knock offs and refused to buy them, just the same.
I've said it before, but this has very little to do with China, to me. I would be just as annoyed if Sanrenmu were a company from any other country. I was put off by CS when they ripped off Strider, even though I hate Strider. I was put off by SOG by the Sogzillas. I was put off by Benchmade over the Spyderhole debacle, etc.
I just think it's lame as a supposed lover of knives to not honor the people that made these amazing designs and are the true innovators, and take the time, effort and money to support the people that really deserve it.
So yes, I'm sorry if it upsets you, but I am calling your integrity into question if you really think it's acceptable to not only buy these knives, but endorse them, no less.
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Thanks for the link to SRM website.
If you navigate to their OEM page
http://www.sanrenmu.com/en/oem/whyoem.php
you'll find this information: (Direct copy & paste)
Living Testimony
As you might have been informed, many high-profile folding knives like Spyderxx Byrds, Spyderxx Persistence, SpyderxxTenacious, as well as Benchmaxx Vex, Benchmaxx Pikas are out of the capable hand of Sanrenmu OEM.
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