Your Opinion of Sanrenmu Knives

[TheBishop]

Thanks for the link to SRM website.

If you navigate to their OEM page

http://www.sanrenmu.com/en/oem/whyoem.php

you'll find this information: (Direct copy & paste)

Living Testimony

As you might have been informed, many high-profile folding knives like Spyderxx Byrds, Spyderxx Persistence, SpyderxxTenacious, as well as Benchmaxx Vex, Benchmaxx Pikas are out of the capable hand of Sanrenmu OEM.

That's gonna sting

 

[J85909266]

That's gonna sting

Not really.

Many brands outsource designs to be built by other manufacturers, but you never see these manufacturers just helping themselves to whatever design or trademarked/patented feature they please...until now.

Until Benchmade, Spyderco, Fox, Buck and whoever else make a statement saying that they are allowing Sanrenmu to use these features and designs however they please, then it neither means, nor changes anything.

Really, it could mean something much worse than simply being another cheap, Chinese knock-off company. Why are there xxs in the company names?

 

[TheBishop]

Not really.

Many brands outsource designs to be built by other manufacturers, but you never see these manufacturers just helping themselves to whatever design or trademarked/patented feature they please...until now.

Until Benchmade, Spyderco, Fox, Buck and whoever else make a statement saying that they are allowing Sanrenmu to use these features and designs however they please, then it neither means, nor changes anything.

Really, it could mean something much worse than simply being another cheap, Chinese knock-off company. Why are there xxs in the company names?

Here's my only problem with patent infringement.
Ideally, should be a no go.
But depending what field, it matters not.
Ex: Gov tells Pharma your patent runs out in X time and then everyone makes it... generic. How would that fly with knife designs?
In the big scheme, all should not buy generic drugs.
Now how many here can honestly claim they don't take the price break.

It is what it is. I'm a realist.
Also, if Byrd is made in China, by the same company, then why is it not $7. And you know nobody will come out and say it, its called business and I can understand that.
Once again, I did not make the rules. If everyone against Chinese patent infringement does not purchase anything else in the world that does the same, or is manipulated by state, gov rules, then they have a leg to stand on.
But those are few and far between.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

I should perhaps have better argued my case, while there are still a few minor discussions about my 2 examples; I think that the extra amount of vitriol addressed at the 710 is simply because it's made in China.

that is absolutely the case.

sorry if i was confrontational with the previous post.

admittedly, i was on the "buy only u.s. made products" bandwagon for quite some time. though i still owned many products made elsewhere, i made every attempt to buy american.

what i learned:
-few products are 100% american made.
-100% american made does not necessarily mean quality.
-its darn near impossible to go through life only buying american.
-china makes some darn good stuff.
-so does japan.
-so does sweden.
-so does switzerland.
-so does canada....

 

[John Smith V]

Not really.

Many brands outsource designs to be built by other manufacturers, but you never see these manufacturers just helping themselves to whatever design or trademarked/patented feature they please...until now.

Until Benchmade, Spyderco, Fox, Buck and whoever else make a statement saying that they are allowing Sanrenmu to use these features and designs however they please, then it neither means, nor changes anything.

Really, it could mean something much worse than simply being another cheap, Chinese knock-off company. Why are there xxs in the company names?

This doesn't make sense. Why would Company X continue to keep doing business with Manufacturer Y if X knows that Y is stealing its design elements?

The more likely scenario is that an agreement has been reached, or permission is implicit. X allows Y to do this, this, this, but Y can't go up against X in X's home market.

Also, if Byrd is made in China, by the same company, then why is it not $7.

In the unlikely event that SRM officially comes stateside, with the same kind of service and warranty, do you not think the price would be on par with Byrd?

 

[jill jackson]

I don't think it's unlikely these Chinese knives of both brands (Navy and SRM) will have a distributor here in the USA. There will be a demand and somebody will fill it. What that would do to the price is anybodies guess. I highly doubt these Chinese companies will object to dealers in the USA wanting to carry their line. So, it makes sense it will happen at some point.
I saw some of those Navy branded knives at a flea market already and they looked worth the 20 dollars or less being asked. Not as smooth as a Spyderco, or Benchmade or as well finished. But, they were decent and felt pretty solid, so the public will buy these knives I believe if the price stays down.

 

[cultivateitnow]

May be that this is like electronics and there is really only two companies in the world that make every brand on the market. I've suspected there was one company making about 80% of the knives on the markey for a long time now.

 

[marthinus]

I dont like them. Was at our fleamarket. Blade grinds all was well, lock sucked. Terrible blade play and just not worth it IMO. I would rather safe my money and will say the same to anyone interested in them.

 

[cziv]

May be that this is like electronics and there is really only two companies in the world that make every brand on the market. I've suspected there was one company making about 80% of the knives on the markey for a long time now.

You're not supposed to drink the bong water.

 

[wongKI]

Hey, that's pretty cool. Perhaps we could get some of the brands involved to confirm this-are they allowed to use Axis lock, Spyderco hole etc?

 

[STR]

This doesn't make sense. Why would Company X continue to keep doing business with Manufacturer Y if X knows that Y is stealing its design elements?

The more likely scenario is that an agreement has been reached, or permission is implicit. X allows Y to do this, this, this, but Y can't go up against X in X's home market.



In the unlikely event that SRM officially comes stateside, with the same kind of service and warranty, do you not think the price would be on par with Byrd?

Could be that its easy to turn a blind eye for certain things in return for x amount of product or a special deal and since most of what we seem to be seeing is discontinued models being copied or various aspects of a design or lock that may well be what is happening, however it could just as easily be outright theft and disregard for IP too. We'll probably never know what inside deals are made to outsource various things and its probably been going on longer than anyone knows.

It may be part of a future trend that the Chinese are beginning to realize they no longer need the middle man to sell their wares. The problem is that when you bite the hand that feeds you it can sometimes sting making long term problems that outweigh any short term gains so to me it would be unwise for this to continue to where it could hurt those companies they work with or do make products for. As I see it these subsidiary companies make it hard to pin point exactly who is to blame. Company X out of the US may contract with Company Y in China to make parts for various knives or whole knives, which then leak out to company Z which may or may not be part of company Y. It may be something as simple as some employee for company Y not making enough money who then decides to black market some things to an interested party on the side to make a few extra $. Again, leading back to shaking hands with the devil. There may be a benefit but don't be surprised if you get burned doing it.

STR

 

[Sal Glesser]

Hey, that's pretty cool. Perhaps we could get some of the brands involved to confirm this-are they allowed to use Axis lock, Spyderco hole etc?

Hi WongKI,

I can tell you that much of the "information" and "opinion" expressed on this thread is not accurate. It's not my place to say too much.

I do not believe that any US companies have an "arrangement" with Chinese companies to reproduce their IP, especially for export out of China. I can say that Spyderco does not at this time.

I can tell you that SRM is not a "lowly" company. They are quite large with tremendous capacity. More employees than any US knife company. Up there with some of the largest in the world.

I can tell you that there are many, many knife companies in China. SRM does not produce many of the knives mentioned earlier.

sal

 

[cziv]

My opinion of the SRM 962 stands. It's rock solid but despite the axis lock & spyder hole - it's a 2 hand opener. The hole is small, doesn't have a good edge on it and my thumb slides right over it.

I did get 2 more SRM 710's though. 1 silver and 1 black, plus a 763 which operated flawlessly in a YouTube video that I watched.

My first 710 thumb flicks open now that I put mineral oil in the pivot and used it for a few days. Love it! Got a back-up and one for my brother.

I'm all "Sanrenmooed up" now and waiting for my ZT 0551!!

 

[cultivateitnow]

Hi WongKI,

I can tell you that much of the "information" and "opinion" expressed on this thread is not accurate. It's not my place to say too much.

I do not believe that any US companies have an "arrangement" with Chinese companies to reproduce their IP, especially for export out of China. I can say that Spyderco does not at this time.

I can tell you that SRM is not a "lowly" company. They are quite large with tremendous capacity. More employees than any US knife company. Up there with some of the largest in the world.

I can tell you that there are many, many knife companies in China. SRM does not produce many of the knives mentioned earlier.

sal

Sal,

This company claims to make knives for Spyderco. Varifying they are blowing smoke and do not now or never have made knives for you goes along way in my book as listing them as a never buy.

Selling seconds with their name on them is one thing but false statements are fraud, pure and simple.

Thanks,

 

[Dagon]

Sal,

This company claims to make knives for Spyderco. Varifying they are blowing smoke and do not now or never have made knives for you goes along way in my book as listing them as a never buy.

Selling seconds with their name on them is one thing but false statements are fraud, pure and simple.

Thanks,

But... Sal didn't say that SRM does not make knives for Spyderco. You're assuming.

 

[Sal Glesser]

Hi Cultivateitnow,

SRM do make some knives for Spyderco. Not all of those mentioned.

We have found them to be a good partner so far. Good quality, receptive to our demands (which have driven many makers nuts ) Consistent in quality and delivery.

We don't care for the round hole version that they are making available, but they were making that model for their domestic market long before we began working with them. I don't know if they know that it is creating a stir here. I'll speak with them when I get a chance.

We have trademarks and patents in China and as we learn more about their ways, we'll try to influence them in our values.

The prices that you are seeing are probably not realisic and may not last.

sal

 

[cultivateitnow]

Thank you.

 

[Sal Glesser]

I should probably add that "making knives for Spyderco" has become a quality claim among OEM manufacturers all over. the belief is that if they are good enough to make knives for Spyderco, it shows that they are a good maker. It's one of the sales pitches used by OEM makers that we work with.

I will admit that Eric and I are difficult to work with. We know what we want, we know how to make what we want. We believe we know what our customers want and we are pretty stiffed neck about our standarsds.

sal

 

[flashlife]

Hi WongKI,

I can tell you that much of the "information" and "opinion" expressed on this thread is not accurate. It's not my place to say too much.

I do not believe that any US companies have an "arrangement" with Chinese companies to reproduce their IP, especially for export out of China. I can say that Spyderco does not at this time.

I can tell you that SRM is not a "lowly" company. They are quite large with tremendous capacity. More employees than any US knife company. Up there with some of the largest in the world.

I can tell you that there are many, many knife companies in China. SRM does not produce many of the knives mentioned earlier.

sal

Hi Sal,
Just to clarify...
1. You say above that SRM does not "at this time" reproduce your knives
"for export out of China".
The Tenacious is, however, made in China, is it not? ... But just not "exported" from there?
Does this mean that SRM does NOT make the Tenacious for you?
None of the Spyderco line is exported 'directly' from China is it?

2. You say SRM does not produce "many" of the knives they listed in the quote from their webpage. Did you mean "any" rather than "many"?

Perhaps, I'm trying to pin you down too much... no disrespect meant.
It's just that your phrases: "at this time", "exported out of China", and "many of the knives" (rather than 'any') seem vague.

 

[flashlife]

OOPS! Sal (and all) please disredard my previous post/questions.
Sal cleared it up while I was composing.
Thanks, Sal !