ZDP-189 edge chipping test:

Noctis3880 said:
You sure it wasn't just leftover dirt stuck in the bottom of the shoe? I've found that dirt in such small amounts that it feels like dust will still chip a blade edge terribly.
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i didn't clean the sneaker. i took that sneaker right from where i last left it, put it on the table and started cutting it.
 
jimnolimit said:
i decided to perform another test on my endura 4 ZDP. i figured the first test was me cutting metal cans why not try something softer. i took an old new balance sneaker (US made), size 12 and decided to cut it up. the edge angle was about 20 degrees per side. the rubber and glue was gumming up the blade, so toward the end of the test i was rubbing mineral oil on the blade to prevent that. i was hanging an inch of the shoe over the side of the table so the only thing the blade was contacting was sneaker. i believe i cut that sneaker into about 27 pieces.
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jimnolimit said:
zdpnbshoecutting.jpg


before the test, the knife would easily cut newspaper against the grain. after cutting the shoe, the knife would barely cut newspaper with the grain (have to use a sawing motion). the knife still cuts cardboard decently.

You forgot to stuff meat in the shoes - what'd ya expect. :D
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i decided to cut the other sneaker up using my spyderco para 2 s30v. i set the edge around 18-20 degrees, with the same stone i finished the ZDP with. the s30v would easily cut newspaper against the grain before the test, just like the ZDP. i cut the same sneaker as i did with the ZDP (just the other side). i also cut this sneaker into about 27-28 pieces just like i did with the ZDP. the only thing i did differently was that i oiled a paper towel and kept wiping the blade so it wouldn't get gummed up. i didn't use oil on the ZDP until i was close to the end of the test. this caused me to use some more effort with the ZDP as opposed to the s30v.

s30vpara2shoecutafter.jpg





this is the edge and the part of the edge i marked before the test, 40x-50x magnification:

s30v
s30vshoecutbefore.jpg




this is the edge after the test, 40x-50x magnification:

s30v
s30vshoecutafter.jpg




this is the edge at 375x magnification. the s30v took on more damage than the ZDP. also, the s30v wouldn't cut either paper or cardboard after the test. ZDP had some trouble with newspaper, but still cut cardboard pretty easily. note the scoring on the edge just like the ZDP had. i don't know if that is caused by microscope pieces of s30v getting caught in the rubber or if the rubber has abrasives in it (example: they use silica in the rubber for car tires).

s30v
s30vshoecutafter2.jpg
 
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jimnolimit said:
i didn't clean the sneaker. i took that sneaker right from where i last left it, put it on the table and started cutting it.
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Okay, so unless that was an unused sneaker(in which case, that's a waste of a perfectly good pair of sneakers), the dirt stuck in the soles will chip even the toughest of steels, as I learned once I chipped my M390 blade trimming onion roots. And again, that amount of dirt wasn't anything you could pick up with your hands.

Perhaps try whittling a fresh block of wood? Or perhaps a nice tree branch? Though I have to admit I had cut up an old pair of shoes myself in the past. But that was more for giggles than to test the edge retention:D.
 
Noctis3880 said:
Okay, so unless that was an unused sneaker(in which case, that's a waste of a perfectly good pair of sneakers), the dirt stuck in the soles will chip even the toughest of steels, as I learned once I chipped my M390 blade trimming onion roots. And again, that amount of dirt wasn't anything you could pick up with your hands.

Perhaps try whittling a fresh block of wood? Or perhaps a nice tree branch? Though I have to admit I had cut up an old pair of shoes myself in the past. But that was more for giggles than to test the edge retention:D.
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that was more for a test control. those sneakers where in the same condition and put through the same use (two feet walk on the same ground). just as i used that same para 2 to do the same can cutting test as the ZDP, i used it for the same sneaker cutting. when i cut through the cans, the ZDP cut the cardboard and junk mail/paper better than the s30v, same as in this test. other rope cutting tests put ZDP ahead of s30v (in these knives), my experience finds this to be true.
 
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jimnolimit said:
that was more for a test control. those sneakers where in the same condition and put through the same use (two feet walk on the same ground). just as i used that same para 2 to do the same can cutting test as the ZDP, i used it for the same sneaker cutting. when i cut through the cans, the ZDP cut the cardboard and junk mail/paper better than the s30v, same as in this test. other rope cutting tests put ZDP ahead of s30v (in these knives), my experience finds this to be true.
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In your last pictures at 375x magnification, was that the ZDP or S30v blade? Would you mind taking a picture of both of them as you're taking comparative pics and varying the blades at different magnifications. I'd like to see both blades at the same magnifications. Thanks. :)
 
Hi cziv -

Post #55 is identical to post #63 excepting that #55 is the zdp and #63 is the s30v.

Thanks for the interesting tests and pictures, jimnolimit.

best regards-

mqqn
 
cziv said:
In your last pictures at 375x magnification, was that the ZDP or S30v blade? Would you mind taking a picture of both of them as you're taking comparative pics and varying the blades at different magnifications. I'd like to see both blades at the same magnifications. Thanks. :)
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mqqn said:
Hi cziv -

Post #55 is identical to post #63 excepting that #55 is the zdp and #63 is the s30v.

Thanks for the interesting tests and pictures, jimnolimit.

best regards-

mqqn
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mqqn is correct.

i made sure that all magnified pics have what steel is pictured listed in the top left hand corner (above the pic). also, if you look at the photo link, the pic's name has a description of what it is.


just to help you out cziv, this is a side by side of the ZDP and s30v at 375x magnification after each shoe cut test.

s30vshoecutafter2-1-1.jpg
 
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Thanks jimnolimit, Guess these old eyes need to get new glasses. I can see something now that you mention it, in the corner, but I can't make it out. I can read the text above it though and missed that. Good comparative tests! :thumbup:
 
About a year ago I did pretty much the same test, except the edges on all test knives were 30 inclusive. ZDP-189, M2, and X50CrMoV15 ish steel...

William Henry B12 (ZDP-189 67HRC), Kershaw Shallot (ZDP-189, 63-64HRC), the same Calphalon paring knife.
Before testing, all of the knives had about 30 deg inclusive angle edge, mirror polished, 0.25mic final finish.



Given correct cutting technique, i.e. keeping lateral stress minimal, 15 per side was no challenge for all the high hardness steels involved.

Detailed account and more macros here - Superhard vs. soft edges.
 
i have 2 other sneakers (size 12 new balance) to cut up. maybe i'll start a thread comparing all the steels i try.
 
Jim, I want to thank you for taking the time to do the work, and post in this remarkable thread. The microscope work was exceptional and very informative. I've just lurked and learned but I have to say thanks.

Joe
 
With S30V being the "tougher" of the two steels, its interesting that it took more damage during the shoe cutting test. I would have thought the opposite to have happened.
 
Have you re-sharpened both of them? I'd like to see what they looked llike after the shoe cutting w/o all the agbufucation. (do you believe that's what I typed for magnification?) :yawn: :o
 
cziv said:
Have you re-sharpened both of them? I'd like to see what they looked llike after the shoe cutting w/o all the agbufucation. (do you believe that's what I typed for magnification?) :yawn: :o
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there is a third test i just finished up with, 52100 mule ;)

i put a working edge back on the ZDP, but i will redo all three edges either later on tonight or tomorrow.

p.s. i might do a buck vantage 420HC test, i have another shoe left.
 
Do it! Bucks 420hc surprised me a lot. I'd be very interested to see how it performs.


jimnolimit said:
there is a third test i just finished up with, 52100 mule ;)

i put a working edge back on the ZDP, but i will redo all three edges either later on tonight or tomorrow.

p.s. i might do a buck vantage 420HC test, i have another shoe left.
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i think im going to test the buck 420HC (vantage select large) right now. im going to start another thread showing what happens to the edges after cutting a sneaker into 25-28 pieces.

p.s. there is a fairly thick piece of plastic (1.5+mm) in the back half of the sneaker to give shape and support around the heel.
 
Awesome! The large vantage select is the exact one that impressed me! :)


jimnolimit said:
i think im going to test the buck 420HC (vantage select large) right now. im going to start another thread showing what happens to the edges after cutting a sneaker into 25-28 pieces.

p.s. there is a fairly thick piece of plastic (1.5+mm) in the back half of the sneaker to give shape and support around the heel.
Click to expand...
 
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