Zero Tolerance 0801S110V Limited Run



I think my other knives are jealous. So far I'm impressed, and I'm really digging the smooth scales, it's like a gentlemens folder on steroids.
 
I could not resist this one, had to pull the trigger. I love the clean look of it and of course the s110v is a nice upgrade...especially at 62 rc. I also love that the blade doesn't have a giant ZT on it, while I love the company I prefer a more sterile blade. The only thing I wish they would adjust is the pocket clip, a nice matching stonewash clip would make this complete and is something I will probably have someone do for me. That black ZT clip just doesn't do it for me. Some people are not crazy about the look and prefer the milling of the 801 but I really like this super clean stonewashed look and feel its certainly more in line with the new rexfords that are coming out (900 and the 808) which is probably why they did it to provide a nice bridge to the new models.

As for the limited number of 300...that seems low to me. Something tells me we will start to see serial numbers into the 400 or 500's but that's nothing more than a simple assumption or guess. 300 just seems low considering the popularity of the 801 series.

Also, I don't see $280 as being a huge deal price wise, to me the 801 series perform and feel better than a lot of $1,000 customs I have owned and handled. I think they more than warrant the price. just my opinion.
 
kidtwist said:
I could not resist this one, had to pull the trigger. I love the clean look of it and of course the s110v is a nice upgrade...especially at 62 rc. I also love that the blade doesn't have a giant ZT on it, while I love the company I prefer a more sterile blade. The only thing I wish they would adjust is the pocket clip, a nice matching stonewash clip would make this complete and is something I will probably have someone do for me. That black ZT clip just doesn't do it for me. Some people are not crazy about the look and prefer the milling of the 801 but I really like this super clean stonewashed look and feel its certainly more in line with the new rexfords that are coming out (900 and the 808) which is probably why they did it to provide a nice bridge to the new models.

As for the limited number of 300...that seems low to me. Something tells me we will start to see serial numbers into the 400 or 500's but that's nothing more than a simple assumption or guess. 300 just seems low considering the popularity of the 801 series.

Also, I don't see $280 as being a huge deal price wise, to me the 801 series perform and feel better than a lot of $1,000 customs I have owned and handled. I think they more than warrant the price. just my opinion.
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There are some clips made in titanium on eBay.
 
kidtwist said:
As for the limited number of 300...that seems low to me. Something tells me we will start to see serial numbers into the 400 or 500's but that's nothing more than a simple assumption or guess. 300 just seems low considering the popularity of the 801 series.
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Unfortunately, serial numbers are zero indicator of total production numbers for Kai.
 
kidtwist said:
I could not resist this one, had to pull the trigger. I love the clean look of it and of course the s110v is a nice upgrade...especially at 62 rc. I also love that the blade doesn't have a giant ZT on it, while I love the company I prefer a more sterile blade. The only thing I wish they would adjust is the pocket clip, a nice matching stonewash clip would make this complete and is something I will probably have someone do for me. That black ZT clip just doesn't do it for me. Some people are not crazy about the look and prefer the milling of the 801 but I really like this super clean stonewashed look and feel its certainly more in line with the new rexfords that are coming out (900 and the 808) which is probably why they did it to provide a nice bridge to the new models.

As for the limited number of 300...that seems low to me. Something tells me we will start to see serial numbers into the 400 or 500's but that's nothing more than a simple assumption or guess. 300 just seems low considering the popularity of the 801 series.

Also, I don't see $280 as being a huge deal price wise, to me the 801 series perform and feel better than a lot of $1,000 customs I have owned and handled. I think they more than warrant the price. just my opinion.
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The 0900 is a Les George design, not a Rexford.
 
Popsickle said:
lol..... it seems as though your reaching
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What? How? I think it's reaching when people start to speculate on aspects of knife production as though they know them as fact. Such as, I don't know, how eliminating milling must to mean that production costs are lower. Or how these lower costs would offset any additional costs that working with a completely different steel like S110V may require...

asdf12345 said:
...the elimination of the complex and deep milling on both sides of the titanium frame (and to a lesser extent the elimination of the logo etch on the presentation side of the blade) would significantly cancel out the added cost of S110-V.
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Or comparing production pricing on one knife to another and speculating that the processes involved on each should be the same because, well, they're both limited productions...

asdf12345 said:
...but consider the 0801CF. Those required more complex milling, anodization, a DLC coating on the blade, carbon fiber inserts, a new steel, and had laser etching changes as well. That one was sold for $320 new. Everything you said about testing, changing of processes, etc was true about the 0801CF but to an even greater degree as it's changes were very extensive. It was a limited run as well.

With the 0801S110V the tooling changes are pretty small in comparison and no new finishes or materials are involved. Yet the price is pretty close to that of the 0801CF.
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somber said:
What? How? I think it's reaching when people start to speculate on aspects of knife production as though they know them as fact. Such as, I don't know, how eliminating milling must to mean that production costs are lower. Or how these lower costs would offset any addition costs of working with a completely different steel like S110V, so it should be sold at a lower price...



Or comparing production pricing on one knife to another and speculation that processes should be the same because, well, they're both limited productions...
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Maybe you should just move on if you don't like the price. I bought one, as well as many others bought one.... and if you dobt like the price now, wait till secondary prices show up haha. Your making a big deal out of something that none of us have any control over
 
Popsickle said:
Maybe you should just move on if you don't like the price. I bought one, as well as many others bought one.... and if you dobt like the price now, wait till secondary prices show up haha. Your making a big deal out of something that none of us have any control over
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I have no problem with the price. I have a problem with people saying that the price is too high based on aspects they have no idea about.
 
somber said:
I have no problem with the price. I have a problem with people saying that the price is too high based on aspects they have no idea about.
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Why have a problem with anything at all? let it go and let people be ignorant. Life is too short for trivial shit
 
Since Kai doesn't give out production numbers anymore one way to get a estimate of how many were made is to list the dealers that got some in and approximately how many they got.

The dealers that I know that got them in so far is : KershawGuy, GPKnives, KnifeCenter, Knives Ship Free and BHQ.

Figure an average of 30 per dealer that's 150 so far..

Obviously this want be an accurate number but it might give us a ball park number..

Edit: Added BHQ
 
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ToxicBot11 said:
Since Kai doesn't give out production numbers anymore one way to get a estimate of how many were made is to list the dealers that got some in and approximately how many they got.

The dealers that I know that got them in so far is : KershawGuy, GPKnives, KnifeCenter and Knives Ship Free.

Figure an average of 30 per dealer that's 120 so far..

Obviously this want be an accurate number but it might give us a ball park number..
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BHQ also got some, a little over 30 by the counts I saw.

And there seems to be some that were sent overseas.
 
somber said:
What? How? I think it's reaching when people start to speculate on aspects of knife production as though they know them as fact. Such as, I don't know, how eliminating milling must to mean that production costs are lower. Or how these lower costs would offset any additional costs that working with a completely different steel like S110V may require...

Or comparing production pricing on one knife to another and speculating that the processes involved on each should be the same because, well, they're both limited productions...
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Well, the 0801 and 0801S110V both have exactly identical total thicknesses: 0.51''. So unless ZT is intentionally making it hard for themselves, the frames are cut the same way except that the milling is not present on the 0801S110V.

Both knives have stonewashed finishes on the blades and handles alike. Again, unless ZT is intentionally doing things a more complicated way just for the sake of it, the finishing processes are the same.

The handle screws on both knives are located in exactly the same locations, meaning that the tooling did not have to be changed from one knife to the other.

Compare this to the changes on the 0801CF. The handle thickness is 0.56'' compared to the original 0.51'' meaning a change in tooling was necessary; the frames had to be cut in a different way than the regular 0801. On top of that, a change in tooling for different milling patterns and milling the center slot was necessary. The finish on the blade and the frames are completely different, and requires the additional steps of DLC coating and anodizing. A new material (carbon fiber) was used which requires its own tooling and machine time and is an extra step in assembly. The hardware is in completely different positions from the original 0801 which again requires major changes in tooling.

This is all common sense stuff. I can understand the price increase on a knife like the 0801CF, but I don't on the 0801S110V. Both knives had additional costs involved with working with a completely new steel, as you mentioned. Except that on the 0801CF, every aspect of the tooling and finish is completely different, where in the 0801S110V the few changes that there are actually reduce production cost. And as you mentioned, both knives are also limited editions compared to the production 0801.
 
I read somewhere these were supposed to go to ZT's top dealers..shouldn't be to hard keep track of which dealer gets them..
 
asdf12345 said:
Well, the 0801 and 0801S110V both have exactly identical total thicknesses: 0.51''. So unless ZT is intentionally making it hard for themselves, the frames are cut the same way except that the milling is not present on the 0801S110V.

Both knives have stonewashed finishes on the blades and handles alike. Again, unless ZT is intentionally doing things a more complicated way just for the sake of it, the finishing processes are the same.

The handle screws on both knives are located in exactly the same locations, meaning that the tooling did not have to be changed from one knife to the other.

Compare this to the changes on the 0801CF. The handle thickness is 0.56'' compared to the original 0.51'' meaning a change in tooling was necessary; the frames had to be cut in a different way than the regular 0801. On top of that, a change in tooling for different milling patterns and milling the center slot was necessary. The finish on the blade and the frames are completely different, and requires the additional steps of DLC coating and anodizing. A new material (carbon fiber) was used which requires its own tooling and machine time and is an extra step in assembly. The hardware is in completely different positions from the original 0801 which again requires major changes in tooling.

This is all common sense stuff. I can understand the price increase on a knife like the 0801CF, but I don't on the 0801S110V. Both knives had additional costs involved with working with a completely new steel, as you mentioned. Except that on the 0801CF, every aspect of the tooling and finish is completely different, where in the 0801S110V the few changes that there actually reduce production cost. And as you mentioned, both knives are also limited editions compared to the production 0801.
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S110V more than likely has a higher associated cost, particularly for a limited run (vs. buying enough steel for a whole production), and there may be significant waste due to yields. It also would have to be heat treated differently since it's a completely different steel. It would grind and machine differently too, maybe it's more time consuming. There also may have been an extreme number of rejects for whatever reason which would also drive the cost up.

As far as the handles, the absence of something that was there before doesn't necessarily mean less cost involved. Every time you make a change you have to change the machine program. When they can make thousands of the same handles and just coat them different to make the different versions, it's going to be VASTLY cheaper than making the handles for the CF or making these new-style handles for the S110V. Changing the machine program means that someone has to CAD the whole thing, translate the CAD in to a CNC program, and then enter the program in to the machine. This means that even for the smallest of change, there's actually a whole lot of man-hours involved.
 
Lost Cosmonaut said:
S110V more than likely has a higher associated cost, particularly for a limited run (vs. buying enough steel for a whole production), and there may be significant waste due to yields. It also would have to be heat treated differently since it's a completely different steel. It would grind and machine differently too, maybe it's more time consuming. There also may have been an extreme number of rejects for whatever reason which would also drive the cost up.
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How would this be a different situation from the 0801CF run with M390?

Those blades, apart from being a different steel, also had to be DLC coated and then refinished again to a machine satin.
 
You don't know what you don't know. You're trying to extrapolate complex numbers and information from speculative observations and pass it off as though it were simple.
 
somber said:
You don't know what you don't know. You're trying to extrapolate complex numbers and information from speculative observations and pass it off as though it were simple.
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I never extrapolated complex numbers. The observations aren't speculative, you can look at the specs anywhere these knives are sold.

You're right, it's not simple. ZT must have done something special with these knives. They probably used semiprecious gems as stonewash media specially for this run of knives, increasing the cost. They probably ground the titanium extra thick for no reason before thinning it out so that the cost of that step would be on par with the cost to mill out the frames on the 0801. Those aren't ordinary handle screws and pivot hardware, those are made of S110V, just like the blade.
 
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