Zero Tolerance Knives Announced at the 2014 SHOT Show

[Stays Sharp]

Don't listen to these guys. Just put everything on hold, make the 0801CF first and take my money Then, make the 0562CF next and take my money again

 

[Kai Corp.]

Care to clarify how it really works? Curious minds want to know . . .

Look for us it's really about internal focus. We want to come to market more than anyone. It's how we make money. It's an expense up to delivery. There are only a few opportunities through a given calender year that you get a collection of all your major customers in one room with each other. These are the times, at least for us, that we take to preview a window of new products that will be available at whatever timetable. The mass retailers are never buying for the now, but more seasons ahead. Sometimes those time frames are 1 year ahead. Our internal designs and catalogs for 2015 have to be finished up in July/Aug. We're working on next year now. I suppose there is some marketing involved that does create demand, but the hype usually comes from entities other than the manufacturer. We especially try to keep the new items to a minimum because we know they are not available. The retailers are involved with the promotion of the new items, ultimately they have ordered them, and need to sell them. Please understand we are a step away from the public, and the dealer in many cases is our customer.

Hopefully this assist with answering your curiosity

 

[Kai Corp.]

Don't listen to these guys. Just put everything on hold, make the 0801CF first and take my money Then, make the 0562CF next and take my money again

Got it...

 

[Kai Corp.]

I imagine it's a bit similar to how things work at Chevrolet, Apple, or Coca-Cola.

I don't think it's especially important to know whether they serve donuts or bagels at the bi-weekly marketing meeting.

As a customer, I just want a ZT 0801CF. I've already waited 9 months though, and it might be another 9 months till it ships. When it does ship, my pre-order probably won't be fulfilled (as with the 0777 and 0888), and I'll probably refuse to pay double the list price on the secondary market (as with the 0777 and 0888). I'll probably wind up instead spending my $1200 on 2-3 Microtechs and Pro-Techs. I love Kai products, but I'm not going to pay stupid 200% markup eBay prices for them when I can get a Navy Scarab AND a couple of Pro-Tech autos for that $1200.

BOS, man your posts like this always bum me out.

 

[dishcore]

This is true

This is true. The retailer understands via a multitude of communication what "ASAP" means. Most also understand manufacturing and keep their expectations real. We've opted to take the approach of showing early, getting temp checks, reconvening, tweaking, and proceeding. it helps with a better product coming to market, and assists with our scheduling and forecasting.

What a retailer does is their business. You're speaking of the on line e-tailers. It's a fierce group fighting for dollars. They feel getting a pre-order is vital in getting the sale. It would be better for them to squash any delivery expectations vs. froth up the masses, but that information doesn't always get across to the elu very well.

SHOT show is a non-public show, yet the information is available to everyone. When the public see's it they want it. When the dealer handles it at the show he understands this is not for today. Not one dealer comes to the booth, see's the new offering, places their order, and expects instant production. The public does, the dealers don't. In the end sooner is always better, but manufacturing has a way of screwing up timing regularly. We do our best, and the knives come out when they are ready. Rushing is not a good practice.

Hope that helps with understanding a bit...Let me know if you need more.

Very good clarification, I'm sure a lot of folks didn't clearly understand this. They see a new knife has been announced and "pre-order" is available, but all they keep thinking is WHY WONT KAI RELEASE IT?!? The real deal is that we are getting information waaaay in advance than what typically would happen, since these knives (801CF, etc.) were announced at a non-public event.

Thanks again for the clarification.

 

[BlackOpsSec]

It really bums me out too that I can't get the limited editions that I want. I am still a huge Kai fan, and have more Kai in my collection than anything else. On the upside, I'm happy to see that Kai is extremely popular, successful, and cranking out cool products. When the value of the 0560CBCF goes up a bit more, I'll sell a couple from my collection and buy an 0777-M390-Black and maybe a 0300BW.

I'm a big fan of free market capitalism so I should probably refrain from complaining too much about market prices and availability lol.

btw, rest assured that I'll buy at least two of every automatic ZT/Kershaw ... when you get back into the automatic business to address increased demand and relaxed auto knife laws across the country.

 

[dishcore]

Got it...

It appears as if Stays Sharp was purely trying to brighten the mood in the thread here. Really with the passive aggressive ... 's?

I've always been one to side with industry because I understand all the aspects that go into creating a product, but come on man.

 

[Kai Corp.]

Very good clarification, I'm sure a lot of folks didn't clearly understand this. They see a new knife has been announced and "pre-order" is available, but all they keep thinking is WHY WONT KAI RELEASE IT?!? The real deal is that we are getting information waaaay in advance than what typically would happen, since these knives (801CF, etc.) were announced at a non-public event.

Thanks again for the clarification.

Again, we've opted to take the approach of showing early, getting temp checks, reconvening, tweaking, and proceeding. it helps with a better product coming to market, and assists with our scheduling and forecasting. Thanks for understanding.

It really bums me out too that I can't get the limited editions that I want. I am still a huge Kai fan, and have more Kai in my collection than anything else. On the upside, I'm happy to see that Kai is extremely popular, successful, and cranking out cool products. When the value of the 0560CBCF goes up a bit more, I'll sell a couple from my collection and buy an 0777-M390-Black and maybe a 0300BW.

I'm a big fan of free market capitalism so I should probably refrain from complaining too much about market prices and availability lol.

btw, rest assured that I'll buy at least two of every automatic ZT/Kershaw ... when you get back into the automatic business to address increased demand and relaxed auto knife laws across the country.

See now I'm not bummed anymore.

 

[Scurvy092]

My take on all of the new ZT releases (and the Kershaws too).

In general, I'm glad to see ZT returning to their roots with more functional, less flashy, less expensive, more-likely-to-actually-be-available-for-everybody-to-purchase, Made-in-the-USA knives. I do miss the crazy, flashy stuff, and the 0454 and 0801CF are the top two ZT knives on my to-buy list.

As far as the higher end limited edition ZT knives go, I will have no interest in them if only 250 are made and they immediately become unobtainable at MSRP. I refuse to pay $1500-2000 in the after/secondary market for a $500 0888. ZT should make those knives available first, and directly, to the ZT hardcore collectors ... the same way Ferrari and Microtech do. I'm on the verge of selling my entire Kershaw and ZT collection (it's BIG!) because I can't even obtain the high end collectible models, and because I'm tired of waiting a year or longer for a knife that may NEVER appear. Kershaw dropping out of the forums was a bad move too - that interaction directly with Kai/Kershaw/ZT really kept me excited about their products and upcoming releases.


All said, if I'm able to actually buy an 0801CF and a 0454, then I might continue collecting Kai products. I've got the proper pre-orders and reserves in, but as we saw with the 0777 and 0888, that sometimes doesn't matter. Otherwise, if I can't even acquire the ZT and Kershaw knives I want, then I'll probably put my entire collection up for sale here soon.

fwiw, I also collect Microtech, Pro-Tech, Marfione customs, other customs and semi-customs, and I'm almost always able to get exactly what I want with those, and at a reasonable price too.

Note: Please don't take my negative comments about Kai as an attack. I'm simply describing what I don't like about their recent business activities. They might even lose me as a customer ... not that they'd care. I would, for example, have bought an 0777 0777M390, 0888, 0888MAX, etc, but apparently I'll just never be able to buy one at a reasonable price. I've consequently spent most of my Kai budget for the past year on Microtech and Pro-Tech, because I could easily get all of their new models.

I imagine it's a bit similar to how things work at Chevrolet, Apple, or Coca-Cola.

I don't think it's especially important to know whether they serve donuts or bagels at the bi-weekly marketing meeting.

As a customer, I just want a ZT 0801CF. I've already waited 9 months though, and it might be another 9 months till it ships. When it does ship, my pre-order probably won't be fulfilled (as with the 0777 and 0888), and I'll probably refuse to pay double the list price on the secondary market (as with the 0777 and 0888). I'll probably wind up instead spending my $1200 on 2-3 Microtechs and Pro-Techs. I love Kai products, but I'm not going to pay stupid 200% markup eBay prices for them when I can get a Navy Scarab AND a couple of Pro-Tech autos for that $1200.

It really bums me out too that I can't get the limited editions that I want. I am still a huge Kai fan, and have more Kai in my collection than anything else. On the upside, I'm happy to see that Kai is extremely popular, successful, and cranking out cool products. When the value of the 0560CBCF goes up a bit more, I'll sell a couple from my collection and buy an 0777-M390-Black and maybe a 0300BW.

I'm a big fan of free market capitalism so I should probably refrain from complaining too much about market prices and availability lol.

btw, rest assured that I'll buy at least two of every automatic ZT/Kershaw ... when you get back into the automatic business to address increased demand and relaxed auto knife laws across the country.

Dude, we get it; Limited Zero Tolerance's are limited.

I suggest finding a better dealer to pre-order through.

 

[Kai Corp.]

It appears as if Stays Sharp was purely trying to brighten the mood in the thread here. Really with the passive aggressive ... 's?

I've always been one to side with industry because I understand all the aspects that go into creating a product, but come on man.

I'm confused, and don't quite understand.

Perhaps I've over played my hand here today. Let me just bow out and come again another day.

Enjoyed the chat fella's...Keep em sharp.

 

[Stays Sharp]

It appears as if Stays Sharp was purely trying to brighten the mood in the thread here. Really with the passive aggressive ... 's?

I've always been one to side with industry because I understand all the aspects that go into creating a product, but come on man.

It's alright. He's either serious (I'll see my knives soon), playing along with my joke, or just worked up right now which I can understand. From the little I've read it seems that's how it usually ends up, one way or another things gets all worked up and he says byebye!

 

[Kai Corp.]

It's alright. He's either serious (I'll see my knives soon), playing along with my joke, or just worked up right now which I can understand. From the little I've read it seems that's how it usually ends up, one way or another things gets all worked up and he says byebye!

I'm cool, and was just playing along with your joke. Guess I shoulda put a on the end of the post. Just felt like it was time to move on. Get an occasional itch for this forum, but have little time for posting much these days. Thanks again for the time.

Out...

 

[Moxy]

Yep. I think ZT needs to get into the small/sleek market. Since Kershaw is making everything overseas now there is a lack of high-end <3.25in EDC friendly knives coming from KAI. I've never been a fan of "overbuilt" knives.

Not really sure about this. Don't feel that's where "the" category is at today. I like the genre, and we've explained our line-up and design philosophy in the past. We'll have to see..

The philosophy of any corporation is to make money. That sounds cold, but in the end, it's true. I think there is a percentage of the market (albeit small perhaps) that is only interested in small EDC knives either for personally preferences or legal restrictions. Except for the ZT0770 (which I'm excited to try out), ZT really doesn't cater to that category.

I never meant to imply that Kershaw isn't producing high quality products. Kershaw's build quality, especially when you consider price, is outstanding. But there is a difference between build quality and material quality.

How about a 3 incher with a little titanium and KVT?
Call it Kershaw or ZT, I'd be fine with either.

 

[mrdeus]

I love the 0562 pocket clip!!!! may sound like small thing but something i look for in all around knife

Me too. I like the way they're going with the 0562CF. I wonder how much it weighs.

 

[BlackOpsSec]

Dude, we get it; Limited Zero Tolerance's are limited.

I suggest finding a better dealer to pre-order through.

Dude, if you try to steal my red stapler again, I'll post a link to some stupid youtube video about burnt elmax.

 

[jac_solar]

It appears as if Stays Sharp was purely trying to brighten the mood in the thread here. Really with the passive aggressive ... 's?

I've always been one to side with industry because I understand all the aspects that go into creating a product, but come on man.

Passive aggressive punctuation! lol.

I know what you mean, but I don't think that he meant it like that -- it seems more like he was jokingly going along with it. In any case, everybody writes differently, and may interpret things differently. If you're in doubt as to what someone means by what they wrote, ask. It's harder to convey innuendo, sarcasm and such on the net.

By the way, people keep asking for smaller knives, but what about bigger knives? Like folders with 4.5+ inches of blade. Is this something Kai simply won't make, or.. ?

 

[Rolex John]

Wow...I am having one heckuva hard time trying to reply to this thread!

 

[austonh]

After getting my 0600 this last week, I've developed an insatiable appetite for LE ZT models. Hopefully as the number of LE models increases, the demand won't be so cut throat in the future. I had never imagined I would see a 0600 in the sales thread for a reasonable price, long enough for me to buy one, but I did and I'm stoked.

Looking forward to the 801CF and definitely the 0454. Also, I just watched the KAI interview from Blade Show 2013, and I think that Thomas hinted at another RJ Martin collaboration? Perhaps based on the modulator? hmmmm..... I'm drooling a bit.

 

[RamZar]

Another example of KAI's current infatuation with everything BlackWashed is the new ZT 0550BW exclusively from BladeHQ. I'm sure there's demand and I may get one eventually but it'd be nice to see the 0770CF real soon before the ZT 0566BW, 0200BW, 0770BW, 0801BW, 0562BW, 0620BW, etc.

 

[bld522]

Look for us it's really about internal focus. We want to come to market more than anyone. It's how we make money. It's an expense up to delivery. There are only a few opportunities through a given calendar year that you get a collection of all your major customers in one room with each other. These are the times, at least for us, that we take to preview a window of new products that will be available at whatever timetable. The mass retailers are never buying for the now, but more seasons ahead. Sometimes those time frames are 1 year ahead. Our internal designs and catalogs for 2015 have to be finished up in July/Aug. We're working on next year now. I suppose there is some marketing involved that does create demand, but the hype usually comes from entities other than the manufacturer. We especially try to keep the new items to a minimum because we know they are not available. The retailers are involved with the promotion of the new items, ultimately they have ordered them, and need to sell them. Please understand we are a step away from the public, and the dealer in many cases is our customer.

Hopefully this assist with answering your curiosity.

It sure does. Thanks. New product announcements accompanied with a short disclaimer such as "product delivery subject to sufficient dealer interest" would be helpful, I suppose. But delivered or not, that disclaimer will be clearly understood from this point on . . . at least by this consumer.