Zero Tolerance Liner Lock Closures?

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Charlie Mike said:
I've never had an issue. Been carrying like this for years. Cops that do notice are more interested in the kydex than the knife.
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I'm glad, Matt. I just worry about "that one time" when Officer Angry's wife has been cheating on him, and his Sergeant has given him crap for not writing enough tickets, and he sees "a bit" of your handle sticking out under your jacket.
 
Kbrasmodeler said:
Out of curiosity, do you live in California? What part?

I agree, but I'm not sure the California Legislature does, unfortunately.
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I do. I live in the Sacramento area. Open carry of fixed blades is enforced. Folders are not held to that and I can generally carry any folder. In general, around here, restrictions on folders are in the form of not being able to carry knives while stalking someone or suspiciously loitering or commiting crimes or getting into fights. I have not been hassled for having a knife showing clipped to my pocket as long as I’m minding my own business. Though, I am usually still wary everytime law enforcement sees it
 
shinyedges said:
Defective at what? They sell the knife to cut, which it does. Emerson does the exact same thing of marketing the #1 hard use knife and the damn thing fails exactly the same test as ZT. Except it can't be gripped for support.

I've had MANY Zt's and have tested them for lock slip, I can force almost all of them to fail an unsupported "whack". While applying pressure on the lockbar I have NEVER had one fail a whack.

Does that count as defective? I don't think so. The lock keeps the knife open during cutting? Check ✓.

While gripped (which is part of the design of a framelock) does the lock keep the knife open? Check ✓.

Did they sell you the knife to bluntly hit tables and other objects with the spine? Nope.
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Not that it is the typical persons application but these are marketed as tactical knives. In defensive use strikes to the spine are a very real possibility.

Also I agree on some knives in certain grips my hand seems to put pressure on the lockbar. In other knives especially in hammer grip the lockbar falls into the curl of my fingers where virtually no pressure is put on the lockbar. Or what about a pinch grip where one isn’t touching the lockbar at all.

I agree that all knife companies can have defective locks but what matters is how they deal with it when the knife is sent in for repair.

To me if a lock can be overcome by just pushing or lightly tapping on the spine that is defective. Other people find different things acceptable I’m sure.
 
not2sharp said:
I agree. Or perhaps offering a titanium insert as an upgrade to make the lock up a bit stickier.

This whole thread has been loud on noise and short on details. For instance, are these knives failing out of the box or have they been abused or heavily worn? There is mention that someone may have been injured by some of these knives, but no indication on what they were doing that caused the failure and injury. If we look, we can easily find negative feedback on just about every product. I am not questioning whether there have been problems, but I am curious whether any of these problems are significant or just a rare aberration.

n2s
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My 0620cf was defective out of the box. I can’t comment for other people. Seems like the majority of ZTs are fine though but it also seems like it isn’t rare enough to be considered an anomaly.

Anyway problematic knives are a reality from any company. The issue seems to be more how ZT repairs it. No one wants to send their knife in for repair, only to have to send it back in the day it returns.
 
Lapedog said:
Not that it is the typical persons application but these are marketed as tactical knives. In defensive use strikes to the spine are a very real possibility.

Also I agree on some knives in certain grips my hand seems to put pressure on the lockbar. In other knives especially in hammer grip the lockbar falls into the curl of my fingers where virtually no pressure is put on the lockbar. Or what about a pinch grip where one isn’t touching the lockbar at all.

I agree that all knife companies can have defective locks but what matters is how they deal with it when the knife is sent in for repair.

To me if a lock can be overcome by just pushing or lightly tapping on the spine that is defective. Other people find different things acceptable I’m sure.
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Closing the knife by hand like a slip joint, is defective, but I don't think that's what's being discussed.

As a "tactical" knife, I think the hand is firmly or death gripping the framelock and is more likely to push the lockbar over to the other side completely. (Another complaint lol)
 
shinyedges said:
Closing the knife by hand like a slip joint, is defective, but I don't think that's what's being discussed.

As a "tactical" knife, I think the hand is firmly or death gripping the framelock and is more likely to push the lockbar over to the other side completely. (Another complaint lol)
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Trying to decide if this should be reported for overuse of truth. :D
 
shinyedges said:
Closing the knife by hand like a slip joint, is defective, but I don't think that's what's being discussed.

As a "tactical" knife, I think the hand is firmly or death gripping the framelock and is more likely to push the lockbar over to the other side completely. (Another complaint lol)
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I haven’t actually had much issue arise from locks that creep over. People seem to not like it but my knives that do it seem to suffer no ill effect.

And I agree different knives for different uses. It’s just abit disappointing when a ZT is less suitable for heavier use than a 40$ Steel Will cutjack.

@craytab I agree spine whacking is abuse and liable to deform the lockface. The action of spine whacking can cause the problem so it is a silly test in my opinion.

On the other hand I agree with Sal that a lock should be able to do a few light taps.
 
Lapedog said:
Dude there was another member who was updating us in real time like 2 weeks ago on this thread telling us they would let us know how the knife came back. There are several people on this thread that has sent their knife in and has got it retuned not fixed has been recent, within the last few months.
One guy got his knife returned and all they did was scratch up the tang side lockface.
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shinyedges said:
Closing the knife by hand like a slip joint, is defective, but I don't think that's what's being discussed.

As a "tactical" knife, I think the hand is firmly or death gripping the framelock and is more likely to push the lockbar over to the other side completely. (Another complaint lol)
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Except if it's a liner lock... Then what?

Also, my test isn't spine whacks, but static pressure on a spine using my hands to make the lock slide across the tang. I frequently see folders fail this, and my 0200 did too.
 
marrenmiller said:
Except if it's a liner lock... Then what?

Also, my test isn't spine whacks, but static pressure on a spine using my hands to make the lock slide across the tang. I frequently see folders fail this, and my 0200 did too.
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Then you send it in for warranty work...
 
Lapedog said:
I haven’t actually had much issue arise from locks that creep over. People seem to not like it but my knives that do it seem to suffer no ill effect.

And I agree different knives for different uses. It’s just abit disappointing when a ZT is less suitable for heavier use than a 40$ Steel Will cutjack.

@craytab I agree spine whacking is abuse and liable to deform the lockface. The action of spine whacking can cause the problem so it is a silly test in my opinion.

On the other hand I agree with Sal that a lock should be able to do a few light taps.
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I agree a light tap should be within reason for the frame lock to handle without hand support. Of the 12 to 18 zts I've had they took a light tap without failure. The 0620cf failed the easiest. The others took more force to fail which I was ok with.

I never understood the mentality of the people who buy knives they don't like and complain. Sell them and move on, or accept what it is, or send it in and move up the KAI food chain until you either meet a wall or get what you want.
 
shinyedges said:
How about a fixed blade instead :confused: beating the hell out of a folder which includes a cold steel with a tri ad lock causes things to get loose and wear.

If only there was a knife without all the moving parts for real hard use :confused:
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"If the primary need is for strength and reliability (and ease of field maintenance/cleaning) , your best solution at a reasonable price will be a fixed blade ."
Quoting myself from this post :https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/folder-comparison.1612807/#post-18424184

Fixed are great , but not everyone can or will carry one . They are limited to a folder by necessity and/or personal preference .

Next best thing to a fixed for strength, convenience and reliability is Cold Steel with Tri-ad lock . (YMMV) :cool::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
marrenmiller said:
Except if it's a liner lock... Then what?

Also, my test isn't spine whacks, but static pressure on a spine using my hands to make the lock slide across the tang. I frequently see folders fail this, and my 0200 did too.
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Buy you a Spyderco Military and then you'll see how a liner lock is supposed to be done.
 
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