Zero Tolerance Liner Lock Closures?

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Steely_Gunz said:
I've had one ZT with a lock issue. It was a 350st that I used hard ( no abuse, no prying. Just lots of dirty cutting) as a work knife for about a year before I discovered that if I put just a bit more than firm pressure against the spine, it would slip the lock.
I figured a trip to ZT would fix the issue. I also decided to pay the 30 bucks to have them put a plain edge blade on it over the serrated one.

I got it back with a more firm lock up and no issues with it folding again. No issues with my 850, 920, 909, 456, 462, or 630.
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Glad to know there is a solution to the problem, at least for some.

If I had a knife fail on the scale of Jill's, I would be really pissed off. It sounds like any minor jiggle would cause it to close, and that is scary dangerous when using them. I bought a Gerber folder about 30 years ago that still reigns as one of the worst knives I ever purchased. Since it wouldn't lock properly (and stay locked) it closed several times before I figured out it was just a POS. Tossed it in the junk drawer. Pulled it out several years later to use it on a quick cut, and it almost bit me. This time, I went to the truck and got my framing hammer and beat it to pieces. Problem solved, and no more Gerbers.

With all the years of job site work, camping, fishing, hunting (dismantling animals) etc., I have never had anything fall from the sky directly onto the spine of any knife I was my work knife that day while I was actually using it. It was suggested earlier in this thread, but I guess I have been lucky. But I have pushed the blade into material as a piercing cut and been unable to easily retrieve the knife causing me to wrestle with it to get it out. Likewise, I have cut material, had it close around the knife where it took all kinds of pressure in ALL directions to free it. Rare that it happens, but it certainly does. So for a work knife that doesn't lock, it needs to go away, or go back (in this case) to ZT for rehab as noted by Senor Gunz.

It seems that this is problem that has been identified that could easily be remedied. First, quit buying ZT. No responsible consumer should throw away money on any product they think could be defective. Why put yourself through the pain when there are so many knives out there? Second, if you see a ZT you can't live without, follow the well used mantra/chant of buying from a responsible BF sanctioned vendor. They will make sure you are happy. Third, take any knife you have doubts about their lock up and perform whatever tests you think they need to pass to make you happy. The product should live up to realistic expectations, but you don't have to accept it if it doesn't.

I guess because I look at knives as tools, I have kind of a "loose" attitude about them. If they don't perform as needed and as expected, they don't make it to my pocket, my tool bags, or even to the truck. No time or interest in sub par or dangerous tools.

Robert
 
midnight flyer said:
Glad to know there is a solution to the problem, at least for some.

If I had a knife fail on the scale of Jill's, I would be really pissed off. It sounds like any minor jiggle would cause it to close, and that is scary dangerous when using them. I bought a Gerber folder about 30 years ago that still reigns as one of the worst knives I ever purchased. Since it wouldn't lock properly (and stay locked) it closed several times before I figured out it was just a POS. Tossed it in the junk drawer. Pulled it out several years later to use it on a quick cut, and it almost bit me. This time, I went to the truck and got my framing hammer and beat it to pieces. Problem solved, and no more Gerbers.

With all the years of job site work, camping, fishing, hunting (dismantling animals) etc., I have never had anything fall from the sky directly onto the spine of any knife I was my work knife that day while I was actually using it. It was suggested earlier in this thread, but I guess I have been lucky. But I have pushed the blade into material as a piercing cut and been unable to easily retrieve the knife causing me to wrestle with it to get it out. Likewise, I have cut material, had it close around the knife where it took all kinds of pressure in ALL directions to free it. Rare that it happens, but it certainly does. So for a work knife that doesn't lock, it needs to go away, or go back (in this case) to ZT for rehab as noted by Senor Gunz.

It seems that this is problem that has been identified that could easily be remedied. First, quit buying ZT. No responsible consumer should throw away money on any product they think could be defective. Why put yourself through the pain when there are so many knives out there? Second, if you see a ZT you can't live without, follow the well used mantra/chant of buying from a responsible BF sanctioned vendor. They will make sure you are happy. Third, take any knife you have doubts about their lock up and perform whatever tests you think they need to pass to make you happy. The product should live up to realistic expectations, but you don't have to accept it if it doesn't.

I guess because I look at knives as tools, I have kind of a "loose" attitude about them. If they don't perform as needed and as expected, they don't make it to my pocket, my tool bags, or even to the truck. No time or interest in sub par or dangerous tools.

Robert
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It doesn’t fall from the sky. I have many friends who work construction and particularly in high rise there is often someone working above you. Things fall. That's why they have to wear helmets.
 
My new 0462 Black has lockup that is flush. It looks like it wouldn't fail. I'm not going to try to whack or tap it because it's brand new. I can't get rid of it if I decide to down the road as NIB if I go beating on it. Tried to get a picture, but all that black makes it near impossible to see detail up close.
 
jill jackson said:
My new 0462 Black has lockup that is flush. It looks like it wouldn't fail. I'm not going to try to whack or tap it because it's brand new. I can't get rid of it if I decide to down the road as NIB if I go beating on it. Tried to get a picture, but all that black makes it near impossible to see detail up close.
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Yeah but watch you sell the knife, the lock fail, and then the buyer try and say you sold them a defective knife.
 
Spyderco used to tap on every folder to be sure they weren't sending out a defective lock. I remember reading that on Bladeforums years ago. They might still do it. Their locks certainly seem to always pass.
 
jill jackson said:
Spyderco used to tap on every folder to be sure they weren't sending out a defective lock. I remember reading that on Bladeforums years ago. They might still do it. Their locks certainly seem to always pass.
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I believe they showed that check in a Spyderco video awhile ago.
 
Got the 0566 last month, and it did not close with firm spine tap. Six other Kershaws I tested also did not close. $140 is a lot of green for me to spend on a knife, and I'm so glad the lock held because I really would have been disappointed and would have had to return it. Sadly, I attempted to reposition the clip for tip down carry and found that one of the screw holes was not threaded properly. Sent to KAI for repair. I sure hope they make good on the fix, as I really want to like this knife.
 
Lapedog said:
It doesn’t fall from the sky. I have many friends who work construction and particularly in high rise there is often someone working above you. Things fall. That's why they have to wear helmets.
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LOL... OK, OK. You got me. I wasn't trying to be so literal that someone would think I meant debris from a falling plane, a hailstorm, meteor shower or anything else "from the sky" that was going to hit the spine of my knife while in use. Change "from the sky" or whatever the confusing language was to "from above" for better understanding.

I get the hard hats. I have to write guys up (even mine) that won't wear them when running a job that requires them.

Robert
 
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Mo2 said:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BmKSeDGFeq0/
Back from warranty.
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I'm done with ZT, I can get too many other knives same price and cheaper that have much more secure lockup. I can buy cheap Chinese made knives that I cannot make fail hitting them as hard as I can against metal and wood. ZT doesn't care enough to address the problem of their knives failing tapped on a person's hand they have lost my respect and business. People that want to make excuses for them can continue to do so and support them with their hard earned money.
 
I will also add that I believe it's just easier and faster for them to put out frame-locks where the inside edge makes contact, instead of bothering to be sure the lock face is flush and tight. Maybe some of them aren't only making contact on the inside edge but many of mine do. They do not stand up to spine taps as the lock bar is forced over to unlock.
 
jill jackson said:
I'm done with ZT, I can get too many other knives same price and cheaper that have much more secure lockup. I can buy cheap Chinese made knives that I cannot make fail hitting them as hard as I can against metal and wood. ZT doesn't care enough to address the problem of their knives failing tapped on a person's hand they have lost my respect and business. People that want to make excuses for them can continue to do so and support them with their hard earned money.
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Sad, they really are beautiful knives when they do work well.

Someone needs to get a popular youtube reviewer to address this issue. Sad it seems that is often the only way to hold knife companies feet to the fire. I understand why a reviewer probably doesn’t want to do it if they haven’t seen it in their own knives.

C clearkevin willl you voulenteer? Could be an interesting video.
 
Lapedog said:
Sad, they really are beautiful knives when they do work well.

Someone needs to get a popular youtube reviewer to address this issue. Sad it seems that is often the only way to hold knife companies feet to the fire. I understand why a reviewer probably doesn’t want to do it if they haven’t seen it in their own knives.

C clearkevin willl you voulenteer? Could be an interesting video.
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I would gladly make this video if I had any experience with this problem but the truth is all of my ZT's have been good for lock up I've sometimes had other problems. If I get one with this issue I will discuss it for sure.
 
jill jackson said:
I will also add that I believe it's just easier and faster for them to put out frame-locks where the inside edge makes contact, instead of bothering to be sure the lock face is flush and tight. Maybe some of them aren't only making contact on the inside edge but many of mine do. They do not stand up to spine taps as the lock bar is forced over to unlock.
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I don’t think the leading edge making contact is the issue. According to Michael Walker that is how a liner ( and thus framelock) is meant to contact the tang. Thats how a sebenza contacts, thats how my Emersons contact.

I bet dispite how it looks if you were to disassemble your Spydercos and look where the lockbar is worn it would likely be only the leading (inside as you put it) edge that is actually worn from tang contact. The CRK Inkosi because of the ceramic BB lockface only contacts the tang at a single tiny point.

I have heard that attempting to have the lockbar face flat against the tang will work at first but lead to lock issues as it wears. Idk I don’t build locks, this was a claim from a certain Walker acolyte. But I don’t think the leading edge contact is the issue. It is something else causing the lock to skip off or slip off and fail.
 
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Seeing that 0450 come back from ZT and they only marred up the lock face and it still folds tapped on the guy's hand, did it for me. They obviously don't care about the issue or lock safety. They should have never sent that knife back. If they couldn't fix it they should have replaced it.
 
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jill jackson said:
I will also add that I believe it's just easier and faster for them to put out frame-locks where the inside edge makes contact, instead of bothering to be sure the lock face is flush and tight. Maybe some of them aren't only making contact on the inside edge but many of mine do. They do not stand up to spine taps as the lock bar is forced over to unlock.
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Liner locks and frame locks are supposed to contact on the inner corner. The issue here is not that, but that the tang geometry is incorrect.
 
That's the first time I heard that. Crazy. It looked he was demoing with a 0450. A lot of ZT's with titanium have lock bar inserts so there is steel on steel contact an no lock stick. I bet my old 0560 can't do this. Been using ZT's for a long time, Spyderco and Benchmade too. Never had any problem with the ZT's, but I'll start smacking them on the back and see what happens.
 
My 0909 will not do it. It doesn't budge in the least. Bashed it soft and hard. Solid as a tank. FYI, no lock bar insert on this model either. Steel lined liner lock. No titanium. Serial # 0182

The liner contacting the lock face in a ZT 0909 is significantly fatter than a lock bar insert with a titanium frame lock design. But didn't someone here say the 0909 has the "problem"?
 
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crufflers said:
That's the first time I heard that. Crazy. It looked he was demoing with a 0450. A lot of ZT's with titanium have lock bar inserts so there is steel on steel contact an no lock stick. I bet my old 0560 can't do this. Been using ZT's for a long time, Spyderco and Benchmade too. Never had any problem with the ZT's, but I'll start smacking them on the back and see what happens.
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Yeah - try it out with your ZTs, gently. You might get some surprising result. Also make sure any part of your hand is free out of the path of the blade when testing. It may be a good idea to tape the edge of your ZTs and wear a cutting-proof glove.
 
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