Zero Tolerance Liner Lock Closures?

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jill jackson said:
Axis locks I own are all very solid. Spydeco's compression lock and ball lock have been as well. Cold Steel makes the Triad lockback which withstands very hard spine whacks. Your 0909 very well might be okay. The problem is some are some aren't. Consistency is always nice!
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I agree. Tri-ad lock, Axis lock, caged ball bearing lock, lock back, and compression lock are my choices for unusual or hard use of a folding knife.
 
crufflers said:
And this applies to knives designed that way that have frame locks too. Plus, the failures are the lock bar going to the side just like when they are disengaged on purpose. Doesn't normal grip keep this from happening (gripping the frame and lock bar, pressing it into the lock face)? Same concept is what make some flippers hard to flip (because you are pressing the lock bar into the detent while trying to overcome it). If I have a knife that fits my hand and I have a decent grip, how can the lock bar move. I am pressing it deeper into lockup.

Looking forward to testing some tonight.
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In some grips on some knives like sabre grip your hand can put more pressure against the lockbar assisting in holding it shut. On other knives the lockbar seems to sit in the crook of my fingers where little to no pressure seems to be applied to the lockbar. This seems to be exacerbated by holding the knife in a hammer grip.
 
Lapedog said:
In some grips on some knives like sabre grip your hand can put more pressure against the lockbar assisting in holding it shut. On other knives the lockbar seems to sit in the crook of my fingers where little to no pressure seems to be applied to the lockbar. This seems to be exacerbated by holding the knife in a hammer grip.
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True, and with liner locks like the 0909... if there was a real problem with it closing up the lockbar is sandwiched inside the G10. I can see how it could be a worry, I just never had a ZT fold on me. I'll hold all my framelocks like the videos I've been watching and see what I get later.

My 0909 seems solid as a block smacking it soft or hard against desk or palm. Lockup is like this:
2VJD0d7l.jpg


More than anything I am curious how much steel bar inserts are related to this. The purpose of those is to reduce wear but also friction IMHO.
 
EBHM4 said:
I've had issues on a few framelock knives I've owned. My issues were not dissimilar to the guy in the video, where the knives had movement in the locks and would fail with spine taps, or at the very least would start to slip and disengage with negative hand pressure. The knives in question were a ZT0550, ZT0630, and Spyderco Military Titanium/CF Knifeworks Exclusive. I elected to fix them myself, by disassembling the knives and bending the lockbar in further to add lockbar tension. In all three cases, this fixed the issue. I know no one asked me, but in my opinion the pursuit of perfectly smooth opening within the tolerances of a factory made knife has lead to manufacturers using the least amount of lockbar tension possible. As a result, the framelock doesn't engage properly because it has inadequate tension to do so. That's just my opinion based on my experience anyway.
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That's funny. Wonder why zt didn't do that to his knives then? They would be the experts, right?
 
crufflers said:
True, and with liner locks like the 0909... if there was a real problem with it closing up the lockbar is sandwiched inside the G10. I can see how it could be a worry, I just never had a ZT fold on me. I'll hold all my framelocks like the videos I've been watching and see what I get later.

My 0909 seems solid as a block smacking it soft or hard against desk or palm. Lockup is like this:
2VJD0d7l.jpg


More than anything I am curious how much steel bar inserts are related to this. The purpose of those is to reduce wear but also friction IMHO.
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If your lock is being held together by friction then that is a faulty lock imho. That is basically your lock being held together by lock stick. Definitely not how the lock is designed to work.
 
Mo2 said:
That's funny. Wonder why zt didn't do that to his knives then? They would be the experts, right?
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Because doing so makes the action suffer. It's harder to flip and may not shake shut anymore. I do it to a lot of my knives, ZTs included, but I like knives that way.
 
The only ZT I have that I could get to close with a spine whack was my 0909.
Maybe that's why they discontinued them?
 
I tried light, medium, hard tapping, even whacking on spines of 0808, 0909, 0452CF, 0450, 0801. Nothing. Lock bars didn't budge on three different surfaces including tape roll, palm, rubber base of a ceramic sharpener. I'll break out the dead blow hammer, some bricks, and a 2x4 tonight if i have time. Probably not trying hard enough or my knives are too broken in. Lock bar inserts which most of them have didn't make a difference. The 0909 was tested again, still nothing. I do have a ton of ZT's so I should see the issue if it is as bad as is being made out to be. I can post lockup pics and serials if it is relevant, but it seems mine pass so far. I will also test Presidios old and new, Contegos, Pardue, PM2 (backwards linerlock that is not real stout so I will tap on the sharp side - I will try both sides on tape roll to see if the lock bar moves), Blurs, Manix2, YOII's, etc...
 
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The way I see it is if you’re using a knife the right way, your index finger will be under the flipper on the blade, making it impossible for the knife to close on your hand. That only applies to knifes with flippers that stick out tho like the 0909. Something like the 0055 tho that’s a different story
 
jill jackson said:
The rock solid Spyderco Slysz Bowie is flush. No taps are going to send this into unlock.
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dbnsqf.jpg
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The lock isn't supposed to contact on the entire face. This can lead to lock rock over time. Your knife won't close against the lock because Spyderco got the lock geometry correct and put a very acute angled lock face on it.

Check with a sharpie on the blade tang sometime and see if the entire surface actually gets rubbed away. I doubt much gets rubbed away by the lock face.
 
DRLyman said:
Damn, and I was just looking at getting a 450 because of it’s smaller size. I guess I’ll hold off on that, at least for now. I’ll give my two 0392s a few taps and see what happens with them. Definitely won’t go crazy with that experiment, though. My 0456s never do this.
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So when I had my 450 and 456, the 456 was one of the easiest to close and the 450 the hardest to close.

On another note, just got a 550 in and it doesn’t close, though it rattles like it wants to.
 
ScooterG said:
So when I had my 450 and 456, the 456 was one of the easiest to close and the 450 the hardest to close.

On another note, just got a 550 in and it doesn’t close, though it rattles like it wants to.
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Yeah, the 456s I have are really smooth. That was the first knife I got by ZT.
I’d send that knife back. You should have never received a knife in that condition in the first place. Bad QC, I’m guessing. God forbid ZT and Benchmade ever do a collaboration, that would be the knife from hell.
 
DRLyman said:
Yeah, the 456s I have are really smooth. That was the first knife I got by ZT.
I’d send that knife back. You should have never received a knife in that condition in the first place. Bad QC, I’m guessing. God forbid ZT and Benchmade ever do a collaboration, that would be the knife from hell.
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Most of my ZTs are long gone...
 
marrenmiller said:
The lock isn't supposed to contact on the entire face. This can lead to lock rock over time. Your knife won't close against the lock because Spyderco got the lock geometry correct and put a very acute angled lock face on it.

Check with a sharpie on the blade tang sometime and see if the entire surface actually gets rubbed away. I doubt much gets rubbed away by the lock face.
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So, you're saying the ZT's that won't take tiny spine taps against a person's hand are too sharply angled and that would cause them to push outward into unlock? (just trying to figure what's wrong)

 
Looking at some of my early ZT's I think they have got worse on lockup over the years. I took out my 0600 and it isn't at all angled on the locking faces. Tapped it on my hand and it holds just fine. I'm not going to hit it more than that though. It's still brand new.
 
jill jackson said:
So, you're saying the ZT's that won't take tiny spine taps against a person's hand are too sharply angled and that would cause them to push outward into unlock? (just trying to figure what's wrong)

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I don't know what else to say but WTH. I'm glad I didn't order that knife. I had it in the cart, but something told me to remove it. Glad I did.
 
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