ZT 0452 lock up

[PURPLEDC]

I'm done here...

I'm not gonna go back and forth with people that argue for the sake of arguing... There isn't a discussion to be had here any more. Something I stated many posts ago...

Jill, I wish you the best of luck in that ZT makes it right for you:thumbup:

its not an argument for arguings sake. Its really a simple matter of truly not agreeing with your opinion and providing detailed reasons to explain why. I understand your frustration as i have been right where you are at right now. I just hope if you take a breather and come back and read this all later you might see it with a new set of eyes. Stabman, you as well as I have snarky styles of writing. But no one here has just dropped a "your wrong because i said so" and moved on. In fact i think this was pretty civilized given the topic. Maybe, just maybe you came in this with your defenses all ready active?

 

[stabman]

Stabman, you as well as I have snarky styles of writing.

That may be true...I seem to have a snarky style of speaking as well many times.

Oh well, both sides have been presented; people can do what they will with it.

 

[asdf12345]

For what it's worth, none of the lock bars on my Microtechs (Mini Matrix, Socom Delta, Whaleshark) with lockbar inserts could be pushed further across the tang more than a couple of millimeters at the most.

Neither could the lock bar on my Sebenza or Kershaw Thermite.

 

[coinbuysell]

Why would you try to push your lockbar over? Too much time on your hands?

That seems as ridiculous as the spine whack test...unless it happens when you use the knife (BB) then I don't see it as a problem but to each their own...I actually did try it on mine and it did not move with pretty serious pressure applied to the lockbar. Again, I would have not thought of trying this on my own because it seems like someone is looking for issues.

FWIW, I like ZT's but good luck getting a respectable answer from Thomas (see USN, where this was previously addressed). He can be a "little" abrasive.

 

[jill jackson]

It never started with anyone trying to just push their lockbar in. It started for me when Blues had the problem from hard cutting. Then a bit of looking and there's more people with the issue. Then I try mine and the lock is mushy, moves over with thumb pressure all the way to the far side. It's hard to unlock and sticky then. Other knives I own won't move all the way over like that. Their locks are better fitted it seems so there's just not any mush to slide over against the far scale and stick. And yes if it happens in hard use when other knives with the same type lock, do not there is something screwy about it.

 

[coinbuysell]

Review the customs for sale threads and 35-50% say they have lock rock or side to side play so I am just thinking it may be a frame lock issue, ymmv. They are $500+ folders that have "worse" issues so I still don't get it, seems like people looking for issues where there are not issues. See Strider and ADV for example, or my TSF Beast...as soon as it "broke in" it developed lock rock so it happens with Ti framelocks...not much more to say, it seems to be "it is what it is". Maybe it just comes with the design and the type of metal used for the lock bar? Ti will still tend to give, even with a SS insert since it is softer than steel.

Would you have tried it without a Youtube video crying about it?

If you want the performance of a $1,000 custom then buy one and don't expect a knife to perform the same at 20% of the cost. There is a cost/benefit relationship involved with every purchase.

 

[jill jackson]

You don't need a 1000 dollar custom to get a solid dependable working blade. I have many frame locks that won't slip all the way across the lock face with finger pressure. They aren't customs either.

 

[kniferbro]

Pushing the lock bar over is simulating hard cutting. With a tight grip (pushing the lock bar over) and a tiny shift in tolerances from the presumably hard force being applied to the edge, the bar can travel over. That's what BB was saying, we only push it over to show how easily it can happen.

When you're going about your business and have to stop to pry the lock bar open, it can detract from the one handed operation. If you're only flipping the knife open and closed, you will never experience it.



Here is an 0452cf, 0562, Slysz Bowie, and a Sebenza 25.

Each was pushed as hard as I could manage with one thumb.

The 0452cf went over but not all the way. However it is absolutely jammed. Needed my keys to pop it open.

The 0562 slid over the most and the easiest. It required 2 hands to open.

The Slysz Bowie is already pretty late in lock up but slid over a good among and easily. It unlocks effortlessly.

The Sebenza 25 moved the least I would say. It unlocks with the faintest "scrape" you can feel.

I don't much mind if it goes over, as long as the lock doesn't jam.

 

[PURPLEDC]

That may be true...I seem to have a snarky style of speaking as well many times.

Oh well, both sides have been presented; people can do what they will with it.

I see what you did there you sly devil you.

 

[PURPLEDC]

For what it's worth, none of the lock bars on my Microtechs (Mini Matrix, Socom Delta, Whaleshark) with lockbar inserts could be pushed further across the tang more than a couple of millimeters at the most.

Neither could the lock bar on my Sebenza or Kershaw Thermite.

Do any of those knives have curved lockfaces? A radius to the lockface is a huge factor in whether this will happen. And the radius can be so slight that its hard to spot with the naked eye.

Pushing the lock bar over is simulating hard cutting. With a tight grip (pushing the lock bar over) and a tiny shift in tolerances from the presumably hard force being applied to the edge, the bar can travel over. That's what BB was saying, we only push it over to show how easily it can happen.

When you're going about your business and have to stop to pry the lock bar open, it can detract from the one handed operation. If you're only flipping the knife open and closed, you will never experience it.



Here is an 0452cf, 0562, Slysz Bowie, and a Sebenza 25.

Each was pushed as hard as I could manage with one thumb.

The 0452cf went over but not all the way. However it is absolutely jammed. Needed my keys to pop it open.

The 0562 slid over the most and the easiest. It required 2 hands to open.

The Slysz Bowie is already pretty late in lock up but slid over a good among and easily. It unlocks effortlessly.

The Sebenza 25 moved the least I would say. It unlocks with the faintest "scrape" you can feel.

I don't much mind if it goes over, as long as the lock doesn't jam.

Here is the thing, the guys who use their knives hard and they find this to be an issue that is fine. I can see it being a less than desirable trait. The problem though is not everyone uses their knives that hard. And this thread has all ready shown that people who never had a problem with their knives after months if not years of use are reading this thread and going to knives they never had a problem with and intentionally forcing the lockbar and stressing it to jam and going "oh, it is defective" yet their knife would never have exhibited this trait unless they read this thread and went screwing around with it. To me its kinda like a guy who gets disappointed after seeing the cold steel videos showing their favorite knifes lock failed at 300 pounds rather than cold steels lock failing at 500 when they may never even put 5 pounds of pressure on that lock in its lifetime to begin with. Also reminds me of guys who get miffed to find out that their car has speed limiter at 105 mph when they dont every go above 70.

 

[Sikael]

Review the customs for sale threads and 35-50% say they have lock rock or side to side play so I am just thinking it may be a frame lock issue, ymmv. They are $500+ folders that have "worse" issues so I still don't get it, seems like people looking for issues where there are not issues. See Strider and ADV for example, or my TSF Beast...as soon as it "broke in" it developed lock rock so it happens with Ti framelocks...not much more to say, it seems to be "it is what it is". Maybe it just comes with the design and the type of metal used for the lock bar? Ti will still tend to give, even with a SS insert since it is softer than steel.

Would you have tried it without a Youtube video crying about it?

If you want the performance of a $1,000 custom then buy one and don't expect a knife to perform the same at 20% of the cost. There is a cost/benefit relationship involved with every purchase.

I haven't had a single frame-lock develop lock-rock, and some are <300$ knives I bought well-used and put through moderate use myself. To say that's it's 'just a frame-lock issue' is a generalization without much substance.

The problem discussed isn't the weird thing you're making it out to be, and it doesn't require much free time or experimentation. The knives that started the discussion failed during moderate-to-heavy use on a job-site, which is what Jill responded to first. We're talking about applying pressure to a lock-bar... what do you think that requires, an electron microscope? Centrifuge?

And what people expect from the money they lay out on a knife is their own business.

Did you show up with a checklist of argumentative bullsh*t? Well done!

 

[jill jackson]

Do any of those knives have curved lockfaces? A radius to the lockface is a huge factor in whether this will happen. And the radius can be so slight that its hard to spot with the naked eye.

See my Reate pictures, it's lock face is flatter than the ZT's and it barely will move.

Zt 0452 lock up from just flipping showing the angle of the blade's lock face.

Reate's which does not slip over all the way with finger pressure, looks flatter to me.

 

[coinbuysell]

I haven't had a single frame-lock develop lock-rock, and some are <300$ knives I bought well-used and put through moderate use myself. To say that's it's 'just a frame-lock issue' is a generalization without much substance.

The problem discussed isn't the weird thing you're making it out to be, and it doesn't require much free time or experimentation. The knives that started the discussion failed during moderate-to-heavy use on a job-site, which is what Jill responded to first. We're talking about applying pressure to a lock-bar... what do you think that requires, an electron microscope? Centrifuge?

And what people expect from the money they lay out on a knife is their own business.

Did you show up with a checklist of argumentative bullsh*t? Well done!

Just trying to put it an everyman's perspective, not everyone hard uses every folder and takes the time to push their lockbars with both thumbs (read the prior posts) so f... off! Just trying to further the conversation but getting kicked for taking the other side. Wish I was as smart as you are!

Doesn't take much time??? Ever spent your time pushing your lockbars? Get a job and use your time more productively.

 

[jill jackson]

Just trying to put it an everyman's perspective, not everyone hard uses every folder and takes the time to push their lockbars with both thumbs (read the prior posts) so f... off! Just trying to further the conversation but getting kicked for taking the other side. Wish I was as smart as you are!

Maybe both my thumbs only = one of some men's thumb in strength? I'm not exactly real burly.

 

[coinbuysell]

Didn't mean that, just that if it takes two thumbs to push it over that = quite bit of force. Maybe more than would be produced cutting...

 

[Sikael]

Just trying to put it an everyman's perspective, not everyone hard uses every folder and takes the time to push their lockbars with both thumbs (read the prior posts) so f... off! Just trying to further the conversation but getting kicked for taking the other side. Wish I was as smart as you are!

Alright then, Everyman, relax. You made some critical comments and got a critical response. Who would have guessed?

 

[PURPLEDC]

See my Reate pictures, it's lock face is flatter than the ZT's and it barely will move.

Zt 0452 lock up from just flipping showing the angle of the blade's lock face.

Reate's which does not slip over all the way with finger pressure, looks flatter to me.

I cant tell without seeing the actual face of the lock but I remember my reate and the knives that I have that are ghost built by reate have a slight radius to the lockface. Not saying yours does too im just saying its hard to tell from here. But your reate also has two solid titanium handle slabs which I dont think is going to have as much give. One thing reate also has going for them is the way they cut the lockbar cutout itself. IMHO its more rigid and wont flex when forced. Listen none of what Im saying is absolute anyways. Im just saying these are contributing factors that need to be considered.

 

[coinbuysell]

So now you want to take the high road :barf:

 

[jill jackson]

There's a pretty good angle on the ZT's blade face. Do you think the CF handle and long Ti lock bar flex enough under pressure to allow the lock bar's face to just slide on over to the other side?

 

[Sikael]

I cant tell without seeing the actual face of the lock but I remember my reate and the knives that I have that are ghost built by reate have a slight radius to the lockface. Not saying yours does too im just saying its hard to tell from here. But your reate also has two solid titanium handle slabs which I dont think is going to have as much give. One thing reate also has going for them is the way they cut the lockbar cutout itself. IMHO its more rigid and wont flex when forced. Listen none of what Im saying is absolute anyways. Im just saying these are contributing factors that need to be considered.

It sounds like using a slightly radiused lockface could be a good way to go. Why wouldn't most makers do that?