0770 CF production question

[rpn]

ZT website still says elmax...

 

[TuCrafty]

So wait...is the 0770cf now going to have an m390 blade? Or is this just a dealer jumping the gun a bit?

BHQ currently has 3 listings total for the 0770.

http://www.bladehq.com/cat--All-Items--1--1--search=Zero+Tolerance+0770?x=0&y=0

1. The aluminum handle with Elmax. [0770]
2. The carbon fiber handle with Elmax. [0770CF]
3. The carbon fiber handle with M390. [0770CF-M390]

I'm hoping this means that they are going to run these in both Elmax and M390. In some of their other new models, they are using both Elmax and M390, so my fingers are crossed. I'll be buying one if it's released in M390, but if it's in Elmax, I'm not really interested.

 

[rpn]

^^^ Well that's interesting!

 

[Ruudr]

Hmm I put my pre-order in for a Elmax one in Juli but I don't mind. I find Elmax a great steel. Never let me down.

 

[daveb068]

I would take what BHQ has on their website with a grain of salt. They also have a 560 black serrated listed as coming soon as well. Don't see that happening. I think the only way an m390 770 would be coming is if they ordered it themselves like the 550bw.

 

[Kohai999]

To the posters on page 3.....Do you really think that Kershaw/Kai does not do market research to ascertain what models will work best with which mechanisms? This company has come to dominate the marketplace in the past few years....it is not dumb luck that led to that success.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[JuJu-]

If all of your SpeedSafe models were offered in a non-SpeedSafe version, and the SpeedSafe version outsold the non-Speedsafe ones, then this statement would have validity.

I think it still has validity because that model works very well for them...

So wait...is the 0770cf now going to have an m390 blade? Or is this just a dealer jumping the gun a bit?

Unless I see a statement from the horses mouth, I'm not going to believe it. They and others do that sorta thing all the time. Not saying it isn't possible but I wouldn't bet the house on it....yet.

 

[Kai Corp.]

Honestly I dont understand how the fact that the speedsafe knives outsell manuals by a wide margin really is a supporting argument for people preferring speedsafe. The reason I say this is speedsafe has been around for over a decade. Its available on many more models in all price ranges. By sheer product limitations alone its obvious that speedsafe will remain the more popular option. You really cant say people prefer speedsafe to manual operation (especially KVT) based on sales when you dont have similar offerings in both categories. Thats kinda like saying people would prefer a chevy over a ferrari because they have outsold them 100 to 1. I think the only real way to quantify people preferring speedsafe compared to KVT would be to release a well equipped attractive knife in both KVT and Speedsafe formats and see which sells better. Right now with you still not having a single KVT equipped knife out on the market right now under the $200 price point it may be a little preemptive to be calling speedsafe the winner. I think time, exposure and more availability of product in all price ranges will surely level the playing field. I have a feeling you will see a huge surge in KVT sales when your affordable line hits later this year. Now we all know that smoothness is really in how the detent is executed. And it really shouldnt matter if your talking manual or KVT since they can feel so similar. But bearing systems are hot right now. And I just think your not giving it enough credit considering just how much more exposure, time and product offerings you have in the speedsafe line. Its really apples to peanuts. Not even the same food group.

Appreciate the analysis, really I do, but we know our markets and customers base very well. You'll just have to trust me when I post. I'm not talking from an uninformed view point. We have personnel with many decades of industry experience and like to think we know what we're doing. We've done focus groups, research projects, have intimate relationships with the all mass retailers in the country. Additionally we work closely with all major distribution channels both domestically and abroad. Our partnerships and internal distribution runs deeper than most of our competition. We ask a lot of questions, and listen closely. We produce to their wants and needs.

In the end there will never be the level playing field as you describe above, as it makes little business sense for us to have an equal SKU count (manual vs.SS). You're asking a question that already has an answer.

I suppose the truth is your above scenario vs reality is what is really apples to peanuts.

With all that said, the majority much prefer SpeedSafe. It's wanted and needed by our customers more than manual action folders by a bunch. KVT has made little to truly make a difference vs. SpeedSafe. Despite what you think, and what you feel is "hot" here, I don't see that changing at least in the near future.
Perhaps down the road will tell a different tale, and I'd be happy to address that when/if that time comes.

IMO, it's important to remember that what a specific individual likes (in this case you like knives with bearings, and don't like A/O), does not always equal a market trend.

If all of your SpeedSafe models were offered in a non-SpeedSafe version, and the SpeedSafe version outsold the non-Speedsafe ones, then this statement would have validity.

Heh...This is good stuff right here.

Welcome to the forums...

Thomas

 

[Sunyata]

Well put KAI


It's a matter of perspective. Younger knife guys I know like assisted opening knives and older guys don't.

For me my first assisted knife (Kershaw Scallion) was awesome, but others thought I was opening a "switchblade" and the older guys I worked with refused to touch them for fear they'd end up as evidence. After that I was selling assisted knives all day.

Now I have a good mix of assisted and non assisted knives but an assist would never be a deal breaker

 

[bld522]

BHQ currently has 3 listings total for the 0770.

http://www.bladehq.com/cat--All-Items--1--1--search=Zero+Tolerance+0770?x=0&y=0

1. The aluminum handle with Elmax. [0770]
2. The carbon fiber handle with Elmax. [0770CF]
3. The carbon fiber handle with M390. [0770CF-M390]

I'm hoping this means that they are going to run these in both Elmax and M390. In some of their other new models, they are using both Elmax and M390, so my fingers are crossed. I'll be buying one if it's released in M390, but if it's in Elmax, I'm not really interested.

I just got off the phone with BladeHQ. They said they have it on good authority that an M390 version of the 0770CF is coming, but it's NOT a dealer exclusive and they have no idea when it will arrive. Of course, they also have no idea when the Elmax version will arrive. Seems as if ZT gives their dealers about as much advanced notice as they give us. Then again, BladeHQ said that ZT is no different in that regard than any other manufacturer they deal with. None of them are very forthcoming about projected ship dates.

Seems pretty clear to me that if ZT isn't telling their dealers what's on the way, they're sure as heck not going to tell us.

 

[Kohai999]

Seems pretty clear to me that if ZT isn't telling their dealers what's on the way, they're sure as heck not going to tell us.

I work for a distributor....We usually have a few week heads up when something is on the way....it isn't the manufacturer not telling people, it is that until they are well into a run of product, they themselves do not know what is going to be finished when.

This is how manufacturing works in the current world economy.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[skyhorse]

The carbon fiber handle with M390. [0770CF-M390] is very nice! Great price,I hope to score one.

 

[Kai Corp.]

I just got off the phone with BladeHQ. They said they have it on good authority that an M390 version of the 0770CF is coming, but it's NOT a dealer exclusive and they have no idea when it will arrive. Of course, they also have no idea when the Elmax version will arrive. Seems as if ZT gives their dealers about as much advanced notice as they give us. Then again, BladeHQ said that ZT is no different in that regard than any other manufacturer they deal with. None of them are very forthcoming about projected ship dates.

Seems pretty clear to me that if ZT isn't telling their dealers what's on the way, they're sure as heck not going to tell us.

It's as Steven says above...

Manufacturing is a difficult business, with many surprises that can rear up. It's not good business to make early promises with production, as there are way too many factors that can mess with a given project. You know what they say about where the road leads with the best of intentions...

It's just not in anyone's best interest to give out the when's until the appropriate time where all the surprises are eliminated.

Appreciate the understanding here.

I've talked recently about the online dealers and their "pre-order" processes. I wish it could be different with more early peeks to go along with more exact dates, but it not the reality of knife manufacturing.

Thomas

 

[skyhorse]

It's always best to under promise and over deliver. Good to hear from you Thomas!

 

[BLUEGINGER]

Unless I see a statement from the horses mouth, I'm not going to believe others do that sorta thing all the time. Not saying it isn't possible but I wouldn't bet the house on it....yet.[/QUOTE]

Yea i thought so i just like to hear from better informed sources so it doesn't fan the flames of confusion. Would be interesting that is for sure.

 

[RamZar]

. Mentioned it here many times. The majority prefer SpeedSafe. It outsells manuals by a wide margin. Sales are important.

In the end there will never be the level playing field as you describe above, as it makes little business sense for us to have an equal SKU count (manual vs.SS). You're asking a question that already has an answer.

With all that said, the majority much prefer SpeedSafe. It's wanted and needed by our customers more than manual action folders by a bunch. KVT has made little to truly make a difference vs. SpeedSafe.

If all of your SpeedSafe models were offered in a non-SpeedSafe version, and the SpeedSafe version outsold the non-Speedsafe ones, then this statement would have validity.

Heh...This is good stuff right here.

Perhaps you could have a version of the 0566 and/or 0770CF with KVT to really compare sales figures of KVT vs. SpeedSafe within the same model. I'm sure it's easier said than done...

 

[Scurvy092]

If they made a knife in speed safe and the same knife in kvt, I have to figure the kvt one would be a little more expensive.

 

[RevDevil]

I can't wait to get a couple of these 0770CF, I have enjoyed using the current 0770. If there should come a day where the blade is M390 that would be a a bonus, if it stays ELMAX it's still a bonus. I mean, it's somewhat unheard of right now to find that steel on a good folder at that price.

 

[PURPLEDC]

Appreciate the analysis, really I do, but we know our markets and customers base very well. You'll just have to trust me when I post. I'm not talking from an uninformed view point. We have personnel with many decades of industry experience and like to think we know what we're doing. We've done focus groups, research projects, have intimate relationships with the all mass retailers in the country. Additionally we work closely with all major distribution channels both domestically and abroad. Our partnerships and internal distribution runs deeper than most of our competition. We ask a lot of questions, and listen closely. We produce to their wants and needs.

In the end there will never be the level playing field as you describe above, as it makes little business sense for us to have an equal SKU count (manual vs.SS). You're asking a question that already has an answer.

I suppose the truth is your above scenario vs reality is what is really apples to peanuts.

With all that said, the majority much prefer SpeedSafe. It's wanted and needed by our customers more than manual action folders by a bunch. KVT has made little to truly make a difference vs. SpeedSafe. Despite what you think, and what you feel is "hot" here, I don't see that changing at least in the near future.
Perhaps down the road will tell a different tale, and I'd be happy to address that when/if that time comes.

IMO, it's important to remember that what a specific individual likes (in this case you like knives with bearings, and don't like A/O), does not always equal a market trend.

Heh...This is good stuff right here.

Welcome to the forums...

Thomas

Hey, I was simply sharing my uninformed thoughts on the subject. Those thoughts being based on the information (very little) you provided which was simply speedsafe knives outsell manuals by a large margin. You never mentioned research projects and focus groups. If you had it would have supported your claims with credibility and not just the "because I said so" approach. But to the outsider with no basis for an opinion when you simply state sales figures for your reasoning, then to some outsiders it doesn't make much sense given the production numbers in both categories. If you are going to share information with "outsiders" don't forget to include the information that would help them understand the insiders position. I don't think I was being rude or aggressive in my response but the sarcasm and condescending overtones are always appreciated Thomas. I was simply trying to understand how you came to that conclusion based ONLY on the small amount of information YOU provided. If you have addressed it in the past please have some patience with us laymen as I don't read every response in every thread. And I am sorry I question you or your company. I realize it is very hard for you to swallow anything other that praise or silence. But some of us just aren't built that way and I will do my best to trust you when your post has enough information to make sense and make me informed. I am not a man of faith.

 

[Kai Corp.]

Perhaps you could have a version of the 0566 and/or 0770CF with KVT to really compare sales figures of KVT vs. SpeedSafe within the same model.

As i said above, we don't need to compare, we already know the answer.

As Steven said earlier, this isn't dumb luck here...and decisions are not made randomly.

I understand there is just a couple of you questioning my SpeedSafe statement here, but in all seriousness, I can tell you by the thread subjects that are posted, it's many in the BF crowd that doesn't understand our customer, not the other way around. With that, when we opt for spec and build please know it's what is best for our core customers. We've put in the time, we understand and then proceed upon that understanding.

I'm sure it's easier said than done...

It'll never be done, so it's really not worth talking about.