30-06 or 270

Sunnyd- I've been a student of ballistics tables longer than I can remember. They are about like steel charts insofar as separating similar cartridges. It depends upon bullet weight, shape, internal bullet construction, balance, accuracy and more. The answer lies, in my order of importance- shooter- distance and sights- game- bullet weight and construction- accuracy (within reason)- trigger - conditions and confidence in the rifle (although some will disagree with my opinion:D). One example is that with different available factory loads I can show the .308 Win to have greater energy and velocity than a .300 Win. Mag. at the same range. It's what keeps my hobbies interesting to me:). Regards, ss.
 
I heard .270 rounds "deflect" easier then 06 rounds in brush/woods... IDK if its true or not but I went with an 06, simply for the reason of ammo availability and the round is extremely versatile.


If your a reloader I've seen 06 rounds getting nearly the same power as a .300MAG load.
 
The truth is, as I said before, any reasonable caliber will do the job of you do your part. You pays your money and takes your choice. Keep in mind that most of what you read here is a combination of myth and opinion. It's also worth pretty much what you paid for it. :D

Let's start a real argument. How about .270 vs .280? .30-30 vs .32 Win. .243 Win. vs 6mm Remington? It can go on for years and it has.

Not to change the subject, but Keith had a point which has recently been proven again. There have been a number of black powder cartridge shooters who took their Shiloh Sharps to Africa. It seems that a .45 500 gr. bullet at about 1500fps works very well on large game.
 
The .30-06 is the parent case for for .270. For the handloader ( like myself) the .30-06 is a better pick because of the range of bullets available. Instead of comparing different cases you are far better off comparing BULLETS and bullet speed. A 125 grain bullet fired out of a .30-06 will do exactly the same thing as a 130 grain out of the .270.

Determine first what you will be hunting, the distance you usually shoot, and then pick your bullet.

Bullet construction, speed, and ACCURACY are much more important than the age old foolish argument over CASE selection.

Also do you self a favor and spend a little LESS on your rifle and MORE on your scope...

I have been shooting and reloading for 17 years.

I shoot a 400 dollar .30-06 with a 300 dollar scope and with handload ammo. I will consistantly shoot the first three into one ragged hole at 100 yards.

I shoot a .30-06
 
Char- not to put too fine an edge on it, but a .30-06 125 gr (usually lightly constructed bullet for light game) will not do exactly the same thing as a 130 gr .270 usually stoutly constructed for big game). Again there are just too many variables to define it one way or the other.:) Regards. ss.
 
straitshot said:
Sunnyd- I've been a student of ballistics tables longer than I can remember. They are about like steel charts insofar as separating similar cartridges. It depends upon bullet weight, shape, internal bullet construction, balance, accuracy and more. The answer lies, in my order of importance- shooter- distance and sights- game- bullet weight and construction- accuracy (within reason)- trigger - conditions and confidence in the rifle (although some will disagree with my opinion:D). One example is that with different available factory loads I can show the .308 Win to have greater energy and velocity than a .300 Win. Mag. at the same range. It's what keeps my hobbies interesting to me:). Regards, ss.
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I am in agreement with you on this for the most part. I meant my statement as a given, to reflect like bullet weight, shape and manufactures as well as rifles that are like off the line stock models. And as fair a side by side comparison for all aspects of measured muzzle jump, velocity and target impact to get the truest results possible.. Now, as far as your confidence with the rifle, conditions and trigger pull, Id agree that is most important in a hunt or in competition shooting, but has little to do with the rifle test I am referring too. But you make some very good points here overall.

I can also show for instance, mixed ammo of some .38 caliber pistol cartridges, such as certain loads of +p+ can out perform some .357 Magnum ammo.. I even have some actual human death statistics in references here in a periodical called, "gun tests" directly correlating to .38 special and .357 mags ammunition.. But for this discussion that's pretty much a dead issue:).

Perhaps I can find somewhere around here my references on a like comparison to the .270 vs. .30-06. I have alot of good references around here. I have dig some though.
 
Here's a little more fuel for the fire: Muzzle velocity and all shooting 150 grain bullets:
.270 2850 FPS
30-06 2910 FPS
.308 2820 FPS
.280 2890 FPS
These are from the Remington factory tables. Looks like the versatility of bullet weights would be the deciding factor. Also, the .308 is build on a "short action", which makes for a more compact rifle. (I like the '06). Bill
 
wewaslim said:
Here's a little more fuel for the fire: Muzzle velocity and all shooting 150 grain bullets:
.270 2850 FPS
30-06 2910 FPS
.308 2820 FPS
.280 2890 FPS
These are from the Remington factory tables. Looks like the versatility of bullet weights would be the deciding factor. Also, the .308 is build on a "short action", which makes for a more compact rifle. (I like the '06). Bill
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Super Information there Bill!. Thanks for those Remington factory stats!:thumbup:

You saved me a trip into my attic.:D
 
straitshot said:
Sunnyd- I've been a student of ballistics tables longer than I can remember. They are about like steel charts insofar as separating similar cartridges. It depends upon bullet weight, shape, internal bullet construction, balance, accuracy and more. The answer lies, in my order of importance- shooter- distance and sights- game- bullet weight and construction- accuracy (within reason)- trigger - conditions and confidence in the rifle (although some will disagree with my opinion:D). One example is that with different available factory loads I can show the .308 Win to have greater energy and velocity than a .300 Win. Mag. at the same range. It's what keeps my hobbies interesting to me:). Regards, ss.
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What kind of factory loads? Please explain further what you mean. Maybe you mean "stopping power", regarding bullet construction...I'll buy that.
- Thanks
 
Sorry for the length of this.
This debate has gone on for years...from famous gun writers to everyday shooters and hunters. The truth is there is no definitive answer because you can find advantages to both calibers. I own both and have found myself on the side of whichever one I happen to be pulling the trigger on at the moment. When I have been shooting the .270, I think "damn, that is a nice caliber and of course, the old .30-06 gets the same thoughts when I have been using it.
I doubt these numbers are going to change anyone’s mind regarding these 2 tested and proven calibers but here they are as taken from the “Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading” 4th Edition.

1. .270 Winchester with 150 gr. (.277 diameter bullet) spire points. (very common load, easily obtained, I realize there are others)
• Muzzle Velocity 3000 fps (feet per second). This is the speed of the bullet as it leaves the Muzzle. (This would be considered a “hot load” by Hornady). Today, you can easily purchase loads of this speed.
• If you zero this rifle at 200 yards, you will be 1.5 inches high at 100 yards and have a drop of 6.6 inches at 300 yards.
• The speed of the bullet at 200 yards will be 2598 fps.
• The energy (ft. lbs of energy) left that will impact the target is 2248 ft lbs (at 200 yards).
• The speed of the bullet at 300 yards is 2410 fps and the remaining energy is 1930 ft. lbs.
• This would be a very lethal load for all animals up to deer size and lots of bigger game has been killed with it. The skill of the shooter being equal and good. (IMHO)
2. .30-06 with 165 gr. (.308 diameter bullet)
• Muzzle Velocity 2900 fps (again, a hot load, but available.)
• If zeroed at 200 yards, you will be 1.7 inches high at 100 yards and have a drop of 7.6 inches at 300 yards.
• The speed of the bullet at 200 yards will be 2434 fps and the energy left will be 2171 ft lbs.
• The speed of the bullet at 300 yards will be 2219 and the energy left will be 1803 ft lbs.
• This caliber has killed more game throughout history than any other by a large margin.
As you can see, using these two near maximum loads, the .270 has slight ballistic advantage over the .30-06 with these two loadings in regard to speed ( which relates to slightly flatter shooting and slightly higher energy), however the ‘0-6 is very close and has its advantages in its versatility of more available bullet weights for different game (from .55 grain Accelerator for varmints up to 220 grain for whatever). Almost without fail, if real hunters/shooters are asked what caliber they would choose if they could only have one rifle… the .30-06 is the one they would take.
I like ‘em both.
 
Troop- just one of those little vagaries that make the subject interesting, from Remington catalog tables:

.308 Win..... 150 gr Swift Scirocco, MV 2820 fps - 500 yds 1863 fps
165 gr Swift Scirocco, MV 2700 fps - 500 yds 1839 fps


.300 Win Mag..... 150 gr PSPCL MV 3290 fps - 500 yds 1816 fps
PSPCL= Pointed Soft Point Cor- Loct


In this comparison, ballistic coefficient differences outweigh muzzle velocity differences for remaining velocities at long range. It doesn't mean the .308 is "better" (or even equal) by any means but it does show that one should choose loads based on all factors considered rather than general assumptions about cartridges. Federal HE .308 vs. standard .300 mag loads show an even greater disparity in favor of the 308 Win. with their 180 gr having a 500 yd velocity of 1870 fps.

Those who believe a .300 Win mag is a death ray and a .308 Win is way behind are right only part (most) of the time. "It all depends" still rules:D Have Fun Shooting and Regards, :)ss.
 
Cases are nothing more than glorified bullet launchers. A smaller caliber with a well constructed ( read Barnes X-bullet or comparable bullet) will typically out-perform a larger caliber with an improper, poorly constructed bullet. Assuming that we are shooting at deer sized game.
Also a direct hit with a .243 with a proper bullet will out perform a MISS with a much larger caliber that you are not comfortable shooting.
Shoot what you personally like, splurge on some well made ammo made to fit the hunting or shooting stituation, and you will be fine.
Don't get caught up in the great case argument.
One final note:
When Elmer and O'Conner were fussing at each other, the common .270 was loaded with 130 grain bullets, the .30-06 was typically loaded with 180 and HEAVIER bullets.
In my opinion Elmer and O'Conner were arguing over BULLETS and may not have realized it. Read Elmer's writings and he talks about shooting animals through the shoulders all the time. You need a well constructed bullet to make it through the shoulders of larger game. Bullets were not too well constructed back in that day, so a heavier, slower moving bullet had more weight to lose as it passed through animal tissue and would penetrate deeper. Thus Elmer and his style of shooting championed the heavier .30-06 and his favorite was a wildcat, the, .333 OHK.

Bottom line is this. You are fine with either case, .270 or .30-06. I shoot an .30-06 because a better selection of bullets are available for it. My favorite load for the 06 required me to buy eight different makes and style of bullets, and five different kinds of powder, and several 50 to 60 round sessions at the range.
 
straitshot said:
Troop- just one of those little vagaries that make the subject interesting, from Remington catalog tables:

.308 Win..... 150 gr Swift Scirocco, MV 2820 fps - 500 yds 1863 fps
165 gr Swift Scirocco, MV 2700 fps - 500 yds 1839 fps


.300 Win Mag..... 150 gr PSPCL MV 3290 fps - 500 yds 1816 fps
PSPCL= Pointed Soft Point Cor- Loct


In this comparison, ballistic coefficient differences outweigh muzzle velocity differences for remaining velocities at long range. It doesn't mean the .308 is "better" (or even equal) by any means but it does show that one should choose loads based on all factors considered rather than general assumptions about cartridges. Federal HE .308 vs. standard .300 mag loads show an even greater disparity in favor of the 308 Win. with their 180 gr having a 500 yd velocity of 1870 fps.

Those who believe a .300 Win mag is a death ray and a .308 Win is way behind are right only part (most) of the time. "It all depends" still rules:D Have Fun Shooting and Regards, :)ss.
Click to expand...

Make me a believer. Could you please post energy at those ranges for those rounds?
- Thanks
 
A 150 grain .308 diameter bullet at 1860 fps has 1152 ft lbs of energy according to Barnes handloading manual # 3
A 165 has 1271 ft lbs of energy at the same speed.
 
You will see seperation in the .308 winchester and the .30-06 and the .300 magnum class in the HEAVIER bullets. The .308 pushes a 220 around 2350 at best while the .30-06 at 2415 and the .300 win mag will push it at 2760.
 
charlieridge said:
A 150 grain .308 diameter bullet at 1860 fps has 1152 ft lbs of energy according to Barnes handloading manual # 3
A 165 has 1271 ft lbs of energy at the same speed.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Charlie, but I was looking for side-by-side energy comparisons with the
.300 Win. Mag. You guys seem like you already had the data tables pulled up.
- Thanks
 
A 400 fps spread will produce an extra 1000 ft lbs of energy using the same ballistic tables...
 
A .300 win mag and a .308 winchester (nato) shoot the same diameter of bullet. So with diameter being equal all we are looking at are weight of the bullet (grains), and the speed ( velocity ).
Really for a "survival" rifle the .308 Winchester (nato) would probably be the best selection of all. The assumtion is the military .308 would be more available during a "crisis".
 
It's cool Troop, I am really a newbie,my experience lies much more in the shooting realm than the knife realm, and I am probably not that clear at times in what I post....
 
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