A formal apology from Jared West of Mantis Knives

[enderwiggin]

Sorry, Mr. West. That reply simply won't do. What you did is unforgivable in the eyes of the knife Gods. Without true contrition and total submission to our hurt feelings, the name of Mantis knives will not be spoken here with out an accompanying curse, rending of clothes, and lamentations over the state of the world which allows you to earn a living.

Thank you, Shecky. It's good to see someone willing to lampoon the expectations of potential customers of Mantis knives.

It's silly of us to want to hold a company accountable for setting up a shill system where they pay off their customers for posting biased knife reviews.

I'm sure you can still pick up a free knife if you work this right.

 

[jill jackson]

Why, Mr. West don't you send a few of your knives to some members here to try out and let them post their findings in the knife pass around? That would show you are serious about your product and would go a lot futher than all the words you could ever type, here in general. I'd be willing to try a few of them out and post my thoughts on them. (OK, I'm at work now somwewhat more awake and see this has been suggested)
I would love to see some of the lesser known brand knives in the pass around. We all know Spyderco, Kershaw, Benchmade pretty well. (the longer I'm into knives the less willing I am to buy anything else) Doesn't hurt to have first hand testing and use of some lesser known brands posted here.

 

[Abacus]

I don't really understand what the big deal is, I guess. I agree, I don't like his marketing tactics either, so I simply wont buy a Mantis knife. I guess ethics are different than morals, but I don't actually see anything morally wrong with trying to get teenagers to be the Mantis Defense Force in exchange for a free knife. Is this different than paying a more qualified businessman to promote your company? Obviously there is bias in advertising, or it wouldn't be good advertising. Again, I think this is lame marketing, but probably no more or less honest than other companies that make unrealistic claims about their products.

For me its the same as Cold Steel. Morals, ethics, and everything else aside, I just don't like their company, so I wont buy. If you have doubts about Mantis' truthfulness about their products, steel, etc. why would buy from them anyway? The way Jared apparently treats customers, he's already proven that he's a tool.

Asking him to say something that'll make me see he's really, truly sorry about the spam is pointless, because even if he did I have no interest in doing business.

 

[richard j]

i was told it was really him but i doubt it. lx_emergency, good idea about him sending a member or members some knives to test. he can send one to my friend who is the chief of police here in town. anyone can say they are jared west but only he can send a "free knife" to anyone. i doubt if one of his flunkies would waste their money (to try and make him look good). i wonder what spark has to say about all of this? hey spark, is he real or is he memorex?

 

[SPXTrader]

Where is the "I'm sorry for the way I acted towards Dave and sorry for sending out my minions to shill for me and cover your forum and others with Spam with the promise of a free knife to the one that does the best job. This was an unprofessional way for me to respond and I am a jerk for acting this way. To further clarify how , where and what Mantis knives are made of , here are the following detailed specifications:......."

All he did was dance around the issues and recant some statements made in the same initial post.

Haven't seen it, and I don't think we ever will.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

I don't really understand what the big deal is, I guess. [...] I don't actually see anything morally wrong with trying to get teenagers to be the Mantis Defense Force in exchange for a free knife. Is this different than paying a more qualified businessman to promote your company?

Abacus, businesses pay to advertise. A knifemaker or dealer needs a membership to advertise on Bladeforums.

When we discuss a brand or a knife model, and people give their experiences, that's a discussion. When a manufacturer sends his friends to post boilerplate endorsements, that is unauthorized advertising: spam.

Whether or not it is unethical or immoral is irrelevent. It is against Bladeforums rules. It's also insulting to the membership here, since we accept reviews and endorsements from each other as being based on the value of the knives themselves.

 

[Brian Jones]

Mr. West, you obviously forgot the serenity prayer when you read that post that angered you. You've been caught, and now you are trying to save your bacon. It doesn't ring true for me, and it will take a lot more than a posted apology to trust that you really have learned any lesson.

By the same token, I find the members here whoring for free Mantis knives not much better than what we've seen out of Mr. West. C'mon, folks, we're better than that - don't lower yourselves to his level.

 

[richard j]

good post brian :thumbup:. i myself wouldnt want one of his knives since i can make my own knife. my friend wouldnt mind a free knife though (and maybe i can get my needs work back from him then)

 

[made4blade]

The man stepped up and said it plain, the only thing left for us to do is pick up one of his knives and GO CUT SUMPTHIN'!!!

Who believed all the hype Jerry Busse put out before you went out and beat the crap out of one of his knives and everything he said was not only true but in some cases a modest understatement. Let's see somebody stick 1-1/2" of the tip of one of these Mantis knives in the top of a door jamb and have a 180 lb. man do one hand pull-ups on it. Hallelujah!!!

Hey, you should check out the website. There are pics of a 200 lbs. guy who pounded two of the knives into a tree, and used them as steps! They are in the press/write-up area of the site, I think. I think it proves that the knives are pretty tough. And, I personally know the person that took the pics, so they are real. I have also done similar tests.

 

[made4blade]

Will you please stop responding to questions that are NOT directed at you? You said that you are not an employee. Therefore you can't answer these questions! Let the man speak for himself. If I were Mr. West, I would find it quite annoying if one of my "MILITIA" members were answering a bunch of questions that they aren't "qualified" to answer. Just my $.02.

Well, MR. know-it-all, just exactly who was this question directed at? Keep your 2 cents.

 

[g.vantilburg]

Well, MR. know-it-all, just exactly who was this question directed at? Keep your 2 cents.

I'm not getting in a pissing match with you in GB&U! Were any of the questions directed toward Jared also directed toward you? NO! So let him answer for himself! Until someone asks a question that you are qualified to answer STFU!! I underestand that you are a dedicated "Militia" member, but let Mr. West speak for himself. Like I said before...if I were him, I would be pissed if some turd was answering all of the questions aimed at me! If you want to start a little flame war, feel free to PM me and I'll be more than happy to tell you what I think of you!

 

[made4blade]

Does anyone even know what diamdave said to Jared, before being called a loser? All I know is that there are two sides to every story, but we are only hearing one side of it. I don't know, but isn't it possible that diamdave was being somewhat of a jerk, and provoked being called a loser??? It's possble... but like I said, I don't know. And just to clear things up, as ragingwolf said, I'm from Michigan, and I do not work for Mantis, I'm just a big fan of the knives and the company. I'm entitled to my own opinion, just as are all of you.

 

[g.vantilburg]

Great customer service! Calling a customer a Loser?! What a way to stay in business! It doesn't matter if diamdave was being a jerk. He was called a loser by the owner of the company, and that is no way to comunicate with a patron of your company! What a piece of work. I have nothing to say about his knives b/c I have never handled one, but from Mr. West's actions, I don't know if I want to even try his product.

 

[jill jackson]

I don't want a free knife from anybody, I have more than I'll ever use in this lifetime. But, if Mr. West donated a few to be put to use in the pass around and be returned to him afterwards, I think that would show if they are as good as he says. (who cares what his "militia" says about them let the members here judge them with tests they do on other brands we do buy, he wants the truth out about them what better way ?)

 

[SPXTrader]

Count me out. I don't want to waste my time or postage on anything being pushed by a bunch of no-brained shills.

 

[jill jackson]

Count me out. I don't want to waste my time or postage on anything being pushed by a bunch of no-brained shills.

That's a good point also. But, if the steel isn't what they say I think members here would quickly expose it. After all they know quality steels and their characteristics. (as well as quality knives, I'd trust what experienced members say about a knife a lot more-so than the manufacturers)

 

[SPXTrader]

jill, the members here have already exposed West and his shilling spam tactics. I don't care if his knives are pure gold and will withstand a direct hit from a JDAM. I'll never buy one, and all of his nonpologies and shilling trolls are hurting him more than he realizes. Dork Oops revisited.

 

[jill jackson]

I guess you are right, I've no money for anything but Spyderco these days. So point well taken.

 

[Bastid]

jill, the members here have already exposed West and his shilling spam tactics. I don't care if his knives are pure gold and will withstand a direct hit from a JDAM. I'll never buy one, and all of his nonpologies and shilling trolls are hurting him more than he realizes. Dork Oops revisited.

:thumbup:. At this point I would rather carry and use a sharpened rock, but hey suckers are born every minute, someone is always going to be there to take advantage of them.

 

[Jaxx]

Does anyone even know what diamdave said to Jared, before being called a loser? All I know is that there are two sides to every story, but we are only hearing one side of it. I don't know, but isn't it possible that diamdave was being somewhat of a jerk, and provoked being called a loser??? It's possible... but like I said, I don't know. And just to clear things up, as ragingwolf said, I'm from Michigan, and I do not work for Mantis, I'm just a big fan of the knives and the company. I'm entitled to my own opinion, just as are all of you.

It really doesn't matter even if diamdave said anything to Jared, before being "called a loser". diamdave was looking for clarification on some questions that should have been simple enough to answer from the owner of this company. Apparently, he did not get the answers he was looking for, and asked for a refund. Jared did give the refund, but left this nasty little note in the message box:

"no message. I've already spent enough time with this loser.
Jared West, Mantis Knives"

He could have just stated either nothing, or "Sorry I couldn't answer your questions to your satisfaction. Here's your refund.", but instead he couldn't obviously control his frustration long enough to avoid making himself look like an a$$ for his outburst. Customer service is an important skill in business, and Jared needs to learn it. He could have simply sent the refund & then yelled, "What an SOB" at the computer, and moved on without experiencing the massive fallout he's received so far. Instead, he does not come forward to explain his side of the story or apologize for losing his cool, but sends his 'militia' out with this "so called SPAM campaign" (I believe that's a direct quote from you) to hype up his product line and stirs everyone up. When he realizes that this isn't a good idea, does he call it off? NO. He lets the contest play out until the deadline, July 4th, and then decides to apologize almost a full 2 weeks later for his actions, but not to diamdave. 27 or not, he needs a thicker skin if he's going to be doing business with the public.

Furthermore, diamdave has been a member here since Nov. 2001 and I've not ever seen a post from him since I arrived here that would be considered out of line... A top ranking Moderator has stated his opinion to diamdave's reputation on & off this forum:

1. Calling the company collectors' club the Mantis Militia is no stranger than joking about Bladeforums pirates. It's easy to get carried away with the club atmosphere and forget the world outside may be very different. Whoever the Mantis Militia enlists, we here are not generally young enthusiasts.

2. It's a big step up for Jared West to come here on his own to explain what happened from his point of view. It's not a real apology, but it is open communication. And of course, it's the internet, not a phone call, so we can wait for him to get back to us, and not expect an immediate reply to each post.

3. The whole argument seems to have begun when diamdave reported being insulted on a refund for an unsatisfactory buying experience. Not cool, and if that's the post that upset Mr. West, I'd like to know why he characterizes it as a lie. I know Dave personally. He's not a liar.

I'd also like to know why he couldn't simply have responded to that post, instead of trying to drown it out in the spam campaign.

...Which holds a significant amount of credibility around here. Much more than can be said about you, so I'd tread carefully, if I were you, when it comes to alleging the mere possibility that diamdave sparked Jared West's anger enough to be "called a loser".

We are fully aware of your opinion concerning Mantis knives. almost all of your 48 posts so far are about & in support of them. Maybe now it's time to let the owner speak for himself if he wants to, and not those who claim to be just customers.