A simply stunning knife (moved here from the Custom forum)

The first thing that came to my mind upon seeing that knife was:

THUNDER! THUNDER! THUNDERCATS, HOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

As a self-proclaimed expert on aesthetics, I hereby declare that knife to be "dorkalicious" or more accurately: "lametastic".

But as far as bemoaning the price point at which the knife moved, try looking at it from an art market standpoint. If you consider that knife to be an art object, the price is entirely reasonable. The art market, like any other, is governed by the law of supply and demand. Mick Strider (or Mickey Ray Burger or whatever you want to call him) is a famous artist. Whether you like him or not, he is famous, and he is in demand. The knife is question is a "handmade" custom piece, and is thus a limited supply item. High-demand + low supply= high prices. If you think about what things go for in the art market, $1250 is nothing. A lot of my little drawings go for more than that. And I'm not as famous as Mick Strider. My wife regularly gets $10,000 a pop for her paintings. Granted, our work takes a lot more time than it takes to make a knife, but there are a lot of artists out there who can knock a painting out in a few hours and then get thousands of dollars for it. I've paid $3,500 for a PRINT from a famous artist. To get a "custom" piece for $1250 from a very well-known knifemaker is totally reasonable to my mind.

Note: the art market is much, much bigger than the knife market- there are a lot more people with serious money that buy art than those that buy knives. If you get all unwound over the price of that Strider, take a stroll through the Miami Basel art fair sometime. You can't touch ANYTHING there for less than $10,000. Most everything there is $100,000 and up. You want a shiny new Murakami painting to hang behind your sofa? That's gonna set you back a cool $1.2 million, my friend. For a gallery to rent a small booth at the 3 day fair sets you back $50,000. I'm not sure how much a table at Blade goes for these days, but I'm pretty sure it's not that much.
 
Bruce Evans said:
Yes Knives are art....And a guy can go broke making the true art knives (ask me how I know:( )I have been a artist most all my life starting back in the 7th grade,painting and a few other mediums included.People do pay for paintings when they do not look at knives in the same way.Some of us are lucky when our wives let us have big displays of knives in the house instead of paintings.Most art knives will never see the light of day except for a quicck cleaning once in awhile...So the guys willing to put out the high end for knives are few and far between (5-10 grand or higher) 1000 dollar knives are almost as scarce to see bought.

When I spend a month on a knife and every single part is fabricated by hand,nothing bought from a jewlery supply or outsourced,I would at least like to make a months wages at minimum wage,but sadly that doesnt happen,even though the knife is worth the cost.When you see a piece of "art" such as this first knife it makes me remeber that Piccasso died broke!I know the cost to some is well worth it,and I am glad to see he can get that much for it,His name is what got the price not the piece....Sadly that is the way it goes in this circle...guess I will die broke as I wont ever make a knife like that,I will make some"tacticals" but only my way.
Bruce
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Bruce.....sorry, man......I know that you are being your normal honorable and gracious self, but NO!!!!! lol. The very idea that this knife sells for $1250 and you, a man who has very fine artistic sense and would, but for an unfortunate protracted illness, most certainly be sporting the letters M.S.behind you name, have trouble getting less than that for one of your knives is a travesty at best:( By the way.......Picasso probably died broke because he was a manic whoremongerer. Until 2 or 3 years ago, he still held the record for highest sale price for a living artist. One of his paintings sold for around $2 million back in the early sixties and he used to crank out PILES of canvasses to pay the bills.....lol
 
For all the knifemakers wheezin' and moanin' about the cost of the subject knife - I want to offer a point.

It doesn't matter whether it took 5 minutes, 5 days or 5 weeks to make that knife It doesn't matter if the materials cost 5 cents or $500. It is what you do with it that creates the value. There is no inherent value in your labor. Mick and Duane created value through user feedback and promotion. User feedback (word of mouth) is a powerful tool that builds over time. Promotion can be more fickle.

I personally wouldn't consider a knife like that, but beating your head over the price is a waste of time. Differentiate yourself by creating something unique. Mastering traditional designs will find you a certain type of customer, but the people that are dropping big bucks are looking for a defining element that builds value greater than all the other stuff out there.

BTW, I agree with ST - this thread belongs in Whine & Cheese, not GB&U. It is/was a rant, not purchasing advice.
 
Architect said:
For all the knifemakers wheezin' and moanin' about the cost of the subject knife - I want to offer a point.

It doesn't matter whether it took 5 minutes, 5 days or 5 weeks to make that knife It doesn't matter if the materials cost 5 cents or $500. It is what you do with it that creates the value. There is no inherent value in your labor. Mick and Duane created value through user feedback and promotion. User feedback (word of mouth) is a powerful tool that builds over time. Promotion can be more fickle.

I personally wouldn't consider a knife like that, but beating your head over the price is a waste of time. Differentiate yourself by creating something unique. Mastering traditional designs will find you a certain type of customer, but the people that are dropping big bucks are looking for a defining element that builds value greater than all the other stuff out there.

BTW, I agree with ST - this thread belongs in Whine & Cheese, not GB&U. It is/was a rant, not purchasing advice.
Click to expand...

The thread actually statrted off as a bit of joke in the custom knife forum and was moved here to join the other Strider thread, i guess.
 
Bruce Evans said:
I wont whine anymore,I'm Sorry.
Bruce
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I said wheezin', not whinin'. Anyhow, my recommendation is to consider your work a business rather than a job. A business has a vision and a goal and attempts to serve the customer in new and exciting ways. A job means you show up, put in your time, and hope everything works out. Don't tell me about arts and crafts, because people making millions in the art world have crafted a business plan, believe me. There are few if any "found" artists these days. All of those "found" amateur artists that are so popular these days were created by sophisticated buyers looking for new territory to chart. They buy the "found" work on the cheap, curate some shows and then re-sell the found work for a killing. I call this a business.

Create the vision and then make your work fulfill the vision. Sermon off.
 
I'd like to add I also was not aware of the controversy surrounding Strider when I originally posted to this thread. I don't have a problem with the price of this piece based on it's collector or artistic value, and assume it was marked up being listed on a dealer site. I understand some of you guys admire Mick or his work and that's fine, but there's nothing wrong with having a differing opinion and voicing it. I gather that most of the regular members of the forum this thread was started in value a certain degree of refinement hence the comments. Does that make us "haters" trying to bring Strider down because we're jealous of his success?

PS Is it still possible to move this thread back to the Custom or W&C forums? IMO the content here and the other thread in this forum are two seperate issues.
 
Jose Reyes said:
assume it was marked up being listed on a dealer site.
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Your assumption is wrong.

The retail price of this (and similar) Leonidas fixed blades is $1250.00- that means that Strider will sell this knife at a show or otherwise to any collector/user/enthusiast for $1250.00.

Clearly, as an authorized Strider dealer, I get a discount so as to be able to resell the item and make a profit.

One of the great ways that this knife business works, for the most part, is that a dealer like myself, can buy with confidence from reliable partners like Strider, knowing that the knife maker or company is selling to the public at the same retail price that I am asking. The difference being that I get my cut (no pun intended) and can make the knife available without the often long wait.

Thanks again to all,

Neil
 
Sorry Neil, I stand corrected. And I did learn from Rogue Warrior many years ago that you should never ASSume anything.
 
Many people misunderstand knife dealers and I hate when I hear the clueless use "dealer markup" as a perjorative.

The best knife dealers provide a tremendous service to the knife world. The capital they invest, and the marketing skill they employ, create an efficient and liquid market for knives -- benefits enjoyed by knife makers and collectors alike.

A dealer discount is one of the only methods a consumer-driven market has to attract capital investment. And whatever markup a dealer can earn is part of what is known as the profit motive -- the only sound reason for a dealer to enter the market in the first place.

As to the price of that knife, it should be priced exactly at the highest price the market will bear. The same goes for every knife, whether offered by maker, dealer or collector.
 
samwereb said:
Many people misunderstand knife dealers and I hate when I hear the clueless use "dealer markup" as a perjorative.

The best knife dealers provide a tremendous service to the knife world. The capital they invest, and the marketing skill they employ, create an efficient and liquid market for knives -- benefits enjoyed by knife makers and collectors alike.

A dealer discount is one of the only methods a consumer-driven market has to attract capital investment. And whatever markup a dealer can earn is part of what is known as the profit motive -- the only sound reason for a dealer to enter the market in the first place.

As to the price of that knife, it should be priced exactly at the highest price the market will bear. The same goes for every knife, whether offered by maker, dealer or collector.
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Do dealers only sell knives from makers they have a deal with? If they buy a knife at retail then they will have to "markup" in order to make a profit. There are plenty of custom makers, that prefer not to use dealers,who sell their knives to the general public for less than the secondary market value so dealers do snatch them up when available.
 
Gentlebeings, 'long about the middle of this thread (where the middle is currently -- who knows how much longer the thread will get) the discussion got pretty ugly and the moderators of the forum it was in felt something had to be done. Well, I don't know if the Moon is quincunx Uranus or what, but right now there are controversies going on all over the forums, so many I'm having a hard time keeping on top of them all. My first response was don't censor it, I'll move it to TGB&U right away and then I'll figure out what's going on and deal with it. Well, I figured out what was going on and dealt with it, and in the meantime people started posting in the thread again and it all settled down and everything is fine now, but with the kind of luck we've been having lately I bet if I moved it back to the Custom forum it would turn ugly again in about 15 minutes. Let's not make any sudden moves. Carry on.... :)
 
Cougar Allen said:
Gentlebeings, 'long about the middle of this thread (where the middle is currently -- who knows how much longer the thread will get) the discussion got pretty ugly and the moderators of the forum it was in felt something had to be done. Well, I don't know if the Moon is quincunx Uranus or what, but right now there are controversies going on all over the forums, so many I'm having a hard time keeping on top of them all. My first response was don't censor it, I'll move it to TGB&U right away and then I'll figure out what's going on and deal with it. Well, I figured out what was going on and dealt with it, and in the meantime people started posting in the thread again and it all settled down and everything is fine now, but with the kind of luck we've been having lately I bet if I moved it back to the Custom forum it would turn ugly again in about 15 minutes. Let's not make any sudden moves. Carry on.... :)
Click to expand...
Cougar....put it in the Cove and we can tart it up with a few nekkid pictures
:D
 
Cougar Allen said:
I bet if I moved it back to the Custom forum it would turn ugly again in about 15 minutes. Let's not make any sudden moves. Carry on.... :)
Click to expand...

I dunno about that Cougar, I'm done fighting windmills. Stand by the comments I made most recently, was meant in fun, and didn't know about the "other" thread's potential. Now, all of us that were having fun with it look like heartless dicks, which for the most part, is not the case.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
samwereb said:
The best knife dealers provide a tremendous service to the knife world. The capital they invest, and the marketing skill they employ, create an efficient and liquid market for knives -- benefits enjoyed by knife makers and collectors alike.
.
Click to expand...

i'm glad you mentioned that...because I was just about to post how knives like the one that started this thread do a tremendous service to the knife world...rather than pooh poohing them, some makers here should recognize that they are biting the hands that feed them...on two fronts:

1) the collector - take me for example, my knife collection is worth tens of thousands of dollars...so clearly i am willing and able to spend on custom knives...and when I decide to buy a custom forged bowie, do you think that I will buy one from a maker who publicly whines about how Strider can get $1250 for a [insert disparaging comment here] when he can't get a few hundred for his "work of art?" Not on your life.

2) the Striders of the world - that's right, do you think that people go from buying $40 buck knives straight to buying an $80,000 Rick Eaton folder? no...they go in stages...and like it or not, Strider's influence has made it "ok" for people to spend on knives...on another forum that I moderate, people have gone from "$50 for a knife is too expensive" to "$400 for a Strider is a bargain"...imagine that they could say "hmmm, $850 for a forged bowie is not so bad"

so instead of whining, why not spend more time being positive to the knife community, and maybe [gasp] try to learn what the public wants...

RL
 
RL said:
i'm glad you mentioned that...because I was just about to post how knives like the one that started this thread do a tremendous service to the knife world...rather than pooh poohing them, some makers here should recognize that they are biting the hands that feed them...on two fronts:

1) the collector - take me for example, my knife collection is worth tens of thousands of dollars...so clearly i am willing and able to spend on custom knives...and when I decide to buy a custom forged bowie, do you think that I will buy one from a maker who publicly whines about how Strider can get $1250 for a [insert disparaging comment here] when he can't get a few hundred for his "work of art?" Not on your life.

2) the Striders of the world - that's right, do you think that people go from buying $40 buck knives straight to buying an $80,000 Rick Eaton folder? no...they go in stages...and like it or not, Strider's influence has made it "ok" for people to spend on knives...on another forum that I moderate, people have gone from "$50 for a knife is too expensive" to "$400 for a Strider is a bargain"...imagine that they could say "hmmm, $850 for a forged bowie is not so bad"

so instead of whining, why not spend more time being positive to the knife community, and maybe [gasp] try to learn what the public wants...

RL
Click to expand...

Very well put, RL. The world of collectable knives, including customs, has grown by leaps and bounds thanks in part to makers such as Strider. And as a collector's tastes change, so may his preference of makers. And once the bug has bitten, it is anly a matter of time before a Knife Nut turns to customs. So when a maker trashes other maker's knives, he insults the buyer as well and in the process bites the hand that feeds, so to speak.

There is nothing wrong with a difference of opinion, as an earlier poster refered to. But discussing a difference of opinion or taste like adults is very different than calling someone else's work junk and insulting that maker.
 
RL said:
i'm glad you mentioned that...because I was just about to post how knives like the one that started this thread do a tremendous service to the knife world...rather than pooh poohing them, some makers here should recognize that they are biting the hands that feed them...on two fronts:

1) the collector - take me for example, my knife collection is worth tens of thousands of dollars...so clearly i am willing and able to spend on custom knives...and when I decide to buy a custom forged bowie, do you think that I will buy one from a maker who publicly whines about how Strider can get $1250 for a [insert disparaging comment here] when he can't get a few hundred for his "work of art?" Not on your life.

2) the Striders of the world - that's right, do you think that people go from buying $40 buck knives straight to buying an $80,000 Rick Eaton folder? no...they go in stages...and like it or not, Strider's influence has made it "ok" for people to spend on knives...on another forum that I moderate, people have gone from "$50 for a knife is too expensive" to "$400 for a Strider is a bargain"...imagine that they could say "hmmm, $850 for a forged bowie is not so bad"

so instead of whining, why not spend more time being positive to the knife community, and maybe [gasp] try to learn what the public wants...

RL
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RL...you seem to be disparaging Bruce when he did NOT disparage Mr. Strider's work. I do believe that he pointed out that this particular knife was somewhat ahead of it's time and a trdsetterfor tactical knives. He merely voiced his frustration at th difficulty of making a living as a full time smith......you should re-read his post more carefully. You may have got his post mixed up with mine. I am the one who thinks that Striders are mall-ninja poseur trinkets:D
 
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