ABS Expo 2014 Report

Thank you Josh for speaking out. I too thought the show was well laid out and enjoyable. It is good to here from someone who has been there to voice opnions.
Gary
 
Miss seeing and talking to you also Steven. Hope you are well.

I know the money is out there and being spent. We are living in a great time. We now have the ability to buy and sell knives to the whole world. Opportunities that makers before us never had.

The ABS is proud of their 1500 members. Thats nice but that's less than are on my email contact list for my show mailing. I'm not saying that to brag or sound like a jerk. I'm really not. But I just think the ABS...and Guild for that matter....could be doing so much more. It will take leaders though to bring everyone together. Right now both organizations seem fractured into so many different groups. Its sad because I think both organizations are filled with incredible talent.
 
Thanks Gary. It was good seeing you in San Antonio.

I hope people don't get the wrong idea. I'm not trying to trash the ABS. I love the ABS and its members. I love Harvey Dean like a second father. I think he is working his ass off for the ABS to try and put on a first rate all forged blade show. And he has sadly not recieved full support from his own ABS Board, and even sadder is that he hasn't recieved full support from his very own fellow mastersmiths. If they would all get behind Harvey for one year we could build a show like no other.

And Arkansas could also grow even more. If there weren't hard feelings maybe more name makers would participate there too.

The ABS has some fantastic makers of all ability levels. If the board is smart they will encourage guys like Adam Desrosiers to get involved. Adam and Haley would be great for the ABS.
 
I would like to echo others in their comments thanking you for taking all the time and making the effort to post these photos and all the information. Very informative and just plain neat! Now I have another knife show I "must make!" Thanks again! Larry osprey888
 
JParanee said:
Thanks Kevin for understanding what my true point is
And let me say that no body in the room has done more for custom knives and especially the forged blade than you my friend
Thank you
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Thank you Joe.
Fortunately there's quite a few like you and I here who are very passionate towards custom knives and community.
We don't always agree but we always go 'all out' in trying to make things better.
 
Great discussion and I appreciate the 'heart-on-the-sleeve' dialog from you all.....very interesting, informative, and to the point.

Thank you for this discussion.... :)
 
The Guild and Master Smiths were all together at one point and time in the same room for years. With the enter net and the tight money situation we are dealing with, we need to work together to bring are collectors back to the shows.
We can do this if we work together, weather you make art knives, hunting knives, tactical knives, we are here to provide the best possible knives that we can make weather stock removal or forged.
Gene Baskett President of The Knife Makers Guild
 
Joe, Josh, Steven, Gary, excellent posts.

Kevin Jones, you keep referring to tactical knives as a "trend" or "riding a wave". Please recognize this wave and trend has been going on for more than 15 years. At what point is it not a trend anymore? The only reason I singled you out is because of your position as President of CKCA. You are doing your members a disservice by not publicly recognizing what has happened.

Jim Bowie popularized the "tactical" knife of his day. The "tactical" knife of today has titanium, carbon fiber, G10, micarta, carbon steel, stainless steel and folds. Who knows what the "tactical" knife of tomorrow will be.

In my opinion, the ABS wants to preserve a type of forged knife with specific materials. I have never seen a JS or MS test knife with micarta or G10. Why? I know knifemakers who forge stainless steel. Why is stainless steel not allowed for test knives?

I wonder what materials Jim Bowie would choose for a knife today? Would his material selection keep the new knife from passing the JS or MS judges?

Chuck
 
As a collector I think it would be great to see ABS and Guild work out any differences and expo together. If not for the collectors, please do it for the Children, they don't understand the feud and seem to get along well together in their new homes.


Greg Neely's and Jerry Moen's playing nice


Warren and McClure get along great
 
I think that this is a super thread.

I have collected custom knives for about 25 years. I have been an ABS Collector Member for about 12 years.
Over the years my taste in knives has changed more than once. I have had many so called Tactical knives, they are very appealing and I see why they attract younger collectors. I still have a few. Now almost all of the knives that I collect are Damascus with traditional handle materials, made by ABS members.

I agree with Chuck’s statement that “Jim Bowie popularized the "tactical" knife of his day.”

The ABS is a great organization and it does a superb job when it tries to “inform and educate knife makers and the public about the art, science, technology, history, and culture relating to forged edged tools, weapons, and artifacts, and the proper care and use of these objects.”

This does not mean that the ABS should not change with the times and recognize that without attracting younger collectors its future could look bleak. I believe that properly forged blades are superior to most blades, but there have been developments in steels and other materials that make for superior knives that appeal to many collectors of all ages.

I don’t think that Joe, STeven, or anyone who posted on thread are attacking the ABS. They only want to see it succeed in the future. I hope that many members of the ABS Board actually view this thread and respond. If you don’t recognize a problem, it will only get worse over time.

Jim Treacy
 
I am glad that this thread is shinning a light on the fact that there is a change needed. I have enjoyed doing this show for the last few years and will do it again. I had a good show this year and in years past. But I have always felt that it was set a bit to close to little rock and when I talk to collectors it is clear that most cannot do both shows and they say, I will see you in little rock. It is not easy to do both shows but I do, and I think it would be great if more of the ABS members came to the ABS show even knowing it may be a slow show. I look at it like this, this is the one show that the ABS puts on and as a member it is my chance to show support for my group, get to know some of the other members and maybe sell some knives. I go to two blacksmith conferences a year and have only missed one in the last twenty years. I show my support that way. I know everyone cannot afford to do this but those that can should. And now I am going to stick my neck out so please do not cut my head off. All this talk about this is hot, that is not is crap. In every genera of knife making we see high and low points the forged knife is here to stay just like tactical knives are here to stay. Tactical is hot right now because some of the best makers in our trade have put their energy into it and from what I see if you are doing forged blades and pouring your heart into every knife as a work of art the collector will see that and love it. In this day and age it is not enough to just bang out a blade and sell it because it is forged any more then it is to just have the liner of your folder pop up and hold it open. the collectors want fresh, new and exciting. I feel that whatever field of knife making you choose to put your mind to you better come up fresh and cool this just my two cents, for most part I steer clear of this type of stuff I just had to say my thoughts. I am going to keep making my forged blades one at time like I do because I love doing it and that is a good enough reason for me.
 
Alpha Knife Supply said:
Joe, Josh, Steven, Gary, excellent posts.

Kevin Jones, you keep referring to tactical knives as a "trend" or "riding a wave". Please recognize this wave and trend has been going on for more than 15 years. At what point is it not a trend anymore? The only reason I singled you out is because of your position as President of CKCA. You are doing your members a disservice by not publicly recognizing what has happened.Chuck
Click to expand...

Thanks for pointing out the obvious Chuck, and just as obvious is that even though increasing popularity consistency over many years, tactical knives (just as tactical firearms) have increased popularity dramatically (I would call this a trend) over the last 5-6 years.

It's also obvious, and I'm please to say, that "tactical knives" are here to stay, but certainly not to the point that CKCA members have to worry that traditional knives (forged, stock-removal, bowies, hunters, art knives etc) will fall by the wayside, as has been suggested in a couple threads. I welcome excitement and increasing popularity of any type of custom knife as it benefits ALL custom knives.

Thank you for pointing out what you consider my short comings as CKCA president. I wondered how long it would be before someone would attempt to turn this very productive thread into something else. CKCA Members, if you feel I'm doing you a dis-service please contact me. However please read all my posts first to realize how I stand on this issue. customknifecollectorsassociation@yahoo.com
 
jjtjr said:
I think that this is a super thread.

I have collected custom knives for about 25 years. I have been an ABS Collector Member for about 12 years.
Over the years my taste in knives has changed more than once. I have had many so called Tactical knives, they are very appealing and I see why they attract younger collectors. I still have a few. Now almost all of the knives that I collect are Damascus with traditional handle materials, made by ABS members.

I agree with Chuck’s statement that “Jim Bowie popularized the "tactical" knife of his day.”

The ABS is a great organization and it does a superb job when it tries to “inform and educate knife makers and the public about the art, science, technology, history, and culture relating to forged edged tools, weapons, and artifacts, and the proper care and use of these objects.”

This does not mean that the ABS should not change with the times and recognize that without attracting younger collectors its future could look bleak. I believe that properly forged blades are superior to most blades, but there have been developments in steels and other materials that make for superior knives that appeal to many collectors of all ages.

I don’t think that Joe, STeven, or anyone who posted on thread are attacking the ABS. They only want to see it succeed in the future. I hope that many members of the ABS Board actually view this thread and respond. If you don’t recognize a problem, it will only get worse over time.

Jim Treacy
Click to expand...

Well said Jim
 
mwschilling said:
As a collector I think it would be great to see ABS and Guild work out any differences and expo together. If not for the collectors, please do it for the Children, they don't understand the feud and seem to get along well together in their new homes.
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Good post, Mark. I know you're kind of saying the knives don't care, and haven't been fighting in your safe. I'd like to take that idea and push it a bit further.

I joined the ABS about three weeks ago. I joined the Guild as a probationary member this past September. I don't know the stories of the fights and breakups. I don't know the people, although I know a few of their names. The answer to forged vs. stock removal, Guild vs. ABS to me, is clearly "YES!" We all make knives and want to sell them. Period. Both organizations have old blood, new blood, and bad blood. Whatever. Make knives and sell them. Make better knives, then sell them for more.

As a newer (6yrs) maker, I'm not into the drama of it all. As a younger guy (36), I suppose I'm part of the "future" more than I am of the present. Do it for the children... some of the old guys had great organizations. I'd like to be a part of them, and infighting or hand wringing won't result in a good organization for me or the people I'll teach to make knives.

We have board members of both organizations viewing and responding to this thread. That's the beginnings of progress.

One final thought... I was talking via email to a Mastersmith... our conclusion was that ABS guys and Guild guys go to the same shows already. While some kind of combined show would be progress, we all go to shows with the "other" guys already. Whatever group you're in, at your next show go find a guy in the other group, shake his hand, and talk about knives. That's a start toward real progress.
 
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Kevin Jones said:
Thanks for pointing out the obvious Chuck, and just as obvious is that even though increasing popularity consistency over many years, tactical knives (just as tactical firearms) have increased popularity dramatically (I would call this a trend) over the last 5-6 years.

It's also obvious, and I'm please to say, that "tactical knives" are here to stay, but certainly not to the point that CKCA members have to worry that traditional knives (forged, stock-removal, bowies, hunters, art knives etc) will fall by the wayside, as has been suggested in a couple threads. I welcome excitement and increasing popularity of any type of custom knife as it benefits ALL custom knives.

Thank you for pointing out what you consider my short comings as CKCA president. I wondered how long it would be before someone would attempt to turn this very productive thread into something else. CKCA Members, if you feel I'm doing you a dis-service please contact me. However please read all my posts first to realize how I stand on this issue. customknifecollectorsassociation@yahoo.com
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Kevin the only disservice you could ever do is not be the wonderful ambassador to custom knives that you already are :)

You my friend always go above and beyond

I do not think anyone is saying that traditional forged blades with natural materials is going anywhere but it certainly is not the fastest growing segment of the market

Let's look at the firearms industry

I am heavily vested in walnut and blued classic firearms

I have a passion for them

But I also have a passion for skelotinized mountain rifles with synthetic stocks

Pure working rifles that cost arguable as much as a fine wood gun

Many of my friends are gunsmiths and today they are doing more work in this type field than ever before

There is a growing market of younger hunters who are not only not interested in guns like this

2c66b6abf364ed5f3cbb7ea0c524dd5a.jpg


d0ddb6d72b727bd56577aeb5e9c75f4f.jpg


But they are turned off by them

They prefer hardcore users that might even command the same prices

When I saw the trend of synthetic mountain rifles taking the lead over Jack OConner type 270's clad in walnut I urged my smiths many years ago to not pass up this market

Now they are making 3 to 1 synthetic high grade user rifles to fancy wood clad rifles

A generation weaned on video games and modern combat rifles is naturally going to be attracted to this look

Just as we where attracted to blued steel and walnut growing up

My point is and I mean this with good intention my advise to my young ABS associated friends is do not ignore the tactical/hardcore market but to embrace it and run with it

This trend is even going over into high end cars and bikes

When you used to think of cars like Lamborghini and Porsche you thought of mile deep paint jobs chrome and fancy pinstripes

Now Flat black and carbon clad cars are what a lot of the new buyers are looking for

3A9F830F-BAF1-4DC3-A364-9E13F7DE0B0D.jpg


My advise to the ABS would be to target this market along with the standard fair and even devote a special category like best forged/tactical

They need to customer farm I can not stress this enough

I also believe it was a mistake to let the cutting comps out of their control

This was the perfect medium to showcase high performance blades

I know there was many reasons why they did but I still believe it was a mistake

Another thought

In days of old when the written word was strong you had Bill Bagwell exulting the high performance characteristics of the forged blade on the pages of Soldier of Fortune every month

He was and is one of the best propionates of the high performance forged blade and alas the ABS has shown him no respect and he is a founding member. Shameful at best
 
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Joe,

"I also believe it was a mistake to let the cutting comps out of their control

This was the perfect medium to showcase high performance blades

I know there was many reasons why they did but I still believe it was a mistake."

I agree 100% about the cutting competitions. They were a real crowd favorite at ABS Hammer-ins.

I have a question, why is that black car parked in a Handicapped area, I don't see a placard?

Jim
 
Jim a 25 year old kid just bought it at my gym and pulled there to show me the car it was still running

He did not park there and you can be sure I said to him your not going to leave that there are you :)
 
JParanee said:
My advise to the ABS would be to target this market along with the standard fair and even devote a special category like best forged/tactical

They need to customer farm I can not stress this enough

I also believe it was a mistake to let the cutting comps out of their control

This was the perfect medium to showcase high performance blades

I know there was many reasons why they did but I still believe it was a mistake
Click to expand...

Well said Joe! I want to comment on the two subjects you mentioned above,

The ABS as a whole is not interested in selling knives, or profit. It took me awhile to see this. I was told years ago that the ABS is an educational, non profit organization. Many members are interested in selling knives & some need to sell knives, but that's not what the ABS is about. You are right, for the organization to continue & grow this does need to change.

I also agree with you about the cutting comps. Big mistake, it seems to have taken the wind out of the sails!
 
I know what you're saying, Don. I said "sell some knives" a bunch, because that's what I think it takes for most knifemakers.

The organizations are only tangentially interested in sales. My understanding (although limited) is that both orgs. are teaching organizations, whose main purpose is to promote and teach the techniques and virtues of custom knives. The orgs should continue that mission in my opinion.

On the other hand, many of the members have to sell knives to pay the bills. Since the org doesn't exist without the members, the orgs ought necessarily be interested in sales, so that the individuals are successful.

So I can modify my initial post's sentiment a little, although the point is hidden in there.

We need to get together and sell some knives, true. We also need to stay true to the mission of both orgs to teach and promote custom knives in general. IMO the two mission points are not exclusive.
 
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