Anyone else tired of the excessive flipper craze?

Cutlover said:
Liner locks would be more prone to bending under load, framelocks would stick more. Frame locks always look like some hunk of metal you can bend off and break like a paper clip. And if you know anything about torque, I am sure you would agree that you could break a framelock bar with your hands due to the skinny cut out section that acts as the spring.

I'll be honest, the lock doesn't matter in practical use. I actually think liner locks are fine, since the spring is hidden inside of the reinforced frame. Framelocks though....fine for normal use, but they are not cool looking to me, and they expose their weak points too much.

You seem to like framelocks though, so I'll lay off :)
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Cutlover said:
Frame/Liner Lock craze is what needs to end, its a shoddy design. You can push it too far over and cause lockstick, you can put too much force on the top of the blade and bend it...just not a good design. Lockbacks are the winners here
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I do know about torque, thank you, and I in no way agree with this theory of yours that you can just break a framelock bar with your bare hands. Show some evidence. I have never seen any.

And are frasme and liner locks a shoddy design or not? First you are saying they are a shoddy design, then when asked to justify that claim, all of a sudden they are fine, and the only problem is that you don't find them cool looking.

And I don't particularly like framelocks, what I do like is when people back up their claims with evidence and reasoning.
 
marcinek said:
I do know about torque, thank you, and I in no way agree with this theory of yours that you can just break a framelock bar with your bare hands. Show some evidence. I have never seen any.

And are frasme and liner locks a shoddy design or not? First you are saying they are a shoddy design, then when asked to justify that claim, all of a sudden they are fine, and the only problem is that you don't find them cool looking.

And I don't particularly like framelocks, what I do like is when people back up their claims with evidence and reasoning.
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I'm offended by this! This is a discussion forum, there clearly is no place for evidence and reasoning!:D
 
On a spring-assisted knife, the flippers opens quicker for me than a thumb stud. The opposite is true for non-assisted. The thumb stud version is easier and quicker to flick open.
 
marcinek said:
I do know about torque, thank you, and I in no way agree with this theory of yours that you can just break a framelock bar with your bare hands. Show some evidence. I have never seen any.

And are frasme and liner locks a shoddy design or not? First you are saying they are a shoddy design, then when asked to justify that claim, all of a sudden they are fine, and the only problem is that you don't find them cool looking.

And I don't particularly like framelocks, what I do like is when people back up their claims with evidence and reasoning.
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Both are more susceptible to lateral torque than other lock designs and framelocks have the unfortunate design flaw of being able to be rendered nigh inoperable by simply holding it wrong (pressure on the lockbar). Combine that with needing to place a digit directly in the path of the blade as you unlock said blade and I come to the conclusion that both designs are inferior to many of the available alternatives.

I know you weren't talking to me, but if we're gonna make this an anti-framelock party we gotta get started! :D
 
Flippers cause quicker wear on the stop pin due to the inertial force when opening the blade.

You also have to be extra aware of your hand placement on the knife to be able to use the flipper effectively. Then knowing how to actuate the flipper correctly (variations in detent strength, flipper geometry, and force needed varies from model to model). It just seems like so much extra necessary steps over traditional one-handed opening mechanisms like thumb studs, thumbs disks, and the Spyderhole.

You can't even get into the customs arena without being inundated by flippers. Same with Mid-Techs. Can't remember the last time I've seen a Hinderer without a flipper.

The sooner this trend goes away, the better. :thumbup:
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Both are more susceptible to lateral torque than other lock designs and framelocks have the unfortunate design flaw of being able to be rendered nigh inoperable by simply holding it wrong (pressure on the lockbar). Combine that with needing to place a digit directly in the path of the blade as you unlock said blade and I come to the conclusion that both designs are inferior to many of the available alternatives.

I know you weren't talking to me, but if we're gonna make this an anti-framelock party we gotta get started! :D
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But are the lockbars bendy like paperclips like Cutlover claims?
 
I like flippers and I like other knives. I like the flippers because there is nothing in the way when cutting with the blade (no discks, no thumb studs).

flippers2007.jpg
 
Not a huge fan myself for a few reasons: they open unnecessarily quickly particularly when assisted, the jarring action of hitting the stop pin and locking into place seems like it could put premature wear on the whole knife, the common ball bearing system I imagine to have a shelf life shorter than most traditional folders, and I can't stand the aesthetics of the flipper tab sticking out when closed on most of them, except say the boker kwaiken with its relatively flat flipper tab. I also think the assisted feature makes them more difficult to close than necessary, and I can see in some situations, my finger slipping off the blade while trying to close one handed and cutting me. Also, if you de-assist them and grind off the flipper tab you void your warranty. They just strike me as a little bit too mall ninja I guess. Not hating, just some observations!

edit: as for sheeple factor, 3 of my technicians use flippers (kershaws) when out in the field working at customers homes, and I don't tell them not to because I don't care--I trust them not to purposely try to draw attention to their knives--they all use them as tools like they should. I can't imagine one of my customers calling to complain about them, ever, and if they did I honestly wouldn't even know what to say!
 
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symphonyincminor said:
You can't even get into the customs arena without being inundated by flippers. Same with Mid-Techs. Can't remember the last time I've seen a Hinderer without a flipper.

The sooner this trend goes away, the better. :thumbup:
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Well, if you have a custom made, you can have it customized exactly to your specifications, and that can certainly be without a flipper. Also, plenty of Marfiones, Rocksteads, Elishewitz', Centofantes, Haras, Schanz', Striders, and more are available on the market without flippers...
(Some even without framelocks)

I get that some folks out there don't like flippers, and obviously some makers do too as there are plenty to choose from without. But there are plenty of knives out there with flippers, because they obviously are a selling point for many other buyers...

The knife market is flooded with knives, period, for everyone... I get the whole some people like this, some people like that, some people can't stand xyz, but that is exactly why there are so many options, unless you simply don't like knives, there are plenty of knives out there for everyone to like, so I just don't understand the need for some folks to complain about the ones they don't rather then focus on the ones they do...

Jamesh Bond said:
I never said I couldn't find knives WITHOUT flippers, simply that certain awesome knives I really want are only made WITH them.

Thx.
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But the catch 22 is, you don't like flippers, hate them actually, so said knives designed "only" with them are then by nature not awesome knives after all, so why would you want them? What makes them awesome? The Steel, blade shape, handle materials? Find a wharncliffe carbon fiber s35v knife without one? Or have one custom made... If you can't stand flippers, and a knife is designed only with a flipper, then it isn't an awesome knife for you. If it is that awesome despite being a flipper, You can have it mod'd, to cut/grind away the flipper, and have a disk/thumbstud/or hole added... It's work, and will cost a few $ to have someone else do it, but it is an option where you can still have all those awesome knives without flippers... Or, learn to not hate 'em... Or simply be happy that there are plenty of other awesome flipperless knives to choose from and just leave the flipper knives to those who do like them, rather then wishing and complaining...

I'm in the boat that appreciates variety; opening, locking, handle materials, blade shapes, grinds, steels, etc. But while I don't like Spyderco more or less, I won't spend the effort stressing as to why they don't make a Spyderco I like, but simply avoid them and buy the brands I do like...
 
marcinek said:
I do know about torque, thank you, and I in no way agree with this theory of yours that you can just break a framelock bar with your bare hands. Show some evidence. I have never seen any.

And are frasme and liner locks a shoddy design or not? First you are saying they are a shoddy design, then when asked to justify that claim, all of a sudden they are fine, and the only problem is that you don't find them cool looking.

And I don't particularly like framelocks, what I do like is when people back up their claims with evidence and reasoning.
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Deleted post, I should stay on topic. Thank BF for ignore feature
 
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We get these anti flipper threads from time to time. I don't care about them one way or the other. But what I don't understand the mentality of "what I don't like should not exist". Don't like flippers, don't buy knives with them. I don't like Frame Locks, so I don't buy them. Takes all kinds to make the world go round.

I suppose you could run for president on the platform that you will outlaw all flipper knives...and if elected, outlaw them by executive order.
 
Cutlover said:
Yeah, the way they lock up is shoddy, just a bar bending over to cover 25% or so of the tang. Works I guess, but shoddy. I decided the liner lock is fine because it is a dainty system for dainty art knives. And if you knew anything about torque, you could easily see that bending the lock slab outwards (assuming nothing in in the way) would break it at the thin part. Even though that piece would never be used that way, that shouldn't be possible in a robust system such as a knife. You have to put your thumb in the way of the blade to close, lockup doesn't cover the whole tang, and it looks ugly (last one is imo). All that adds up to being shoddy in my opinion. I never liked the look of the knife with that skinny little chunk of metal cut out.

If you are curious, I could upload a video of me breaking a frame lock. The only part of a knife that should be able to be bend by hand is the pocket clip lol.


I do agree that people should back up claims with evidence. That is my fault. However, I also don't think that you should be questioning posts left and right. From what I've read, you contribute nothing to threads, but rather try to cut down other posts. Try contributing to the thread and offer your own thoughts, I am sure you have a lot of experience with those 16,000 posts of yours :thumbup:
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Are you familiar with lock bar over travel stops? You're not the only one who recognized that the frame lock could be compromised by overextending the lock bar, and now we have more robust designs that still have the sexy (IMO ;)) aesthetics of the frame lock.
 
bpeezer said:
Are you familiar with lock bar over travel stops? You're not the only one who recognized that the frame lock could be compromised by overextending the lock bar, and now we have more robust designs that still have the sexy (IMO ;)) aesthetics of the frame lock.
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Darn, you snagged my post before I could delete it for being a worthless post :D More power to you for liking frame lock aesthetics, gives you many more options. But on my half, saves the old wallet ;)

What other designs are those?
 
Nope, I love a well built flipper, and am glad that companies understand the market and continue to make them for us. :thumbup:
 
Insipid Moniker said:
... and framelocks have the unfortunate design flaw of being able to be rendered nigh inoperable by simply holding it wrong (pressure on the lockbar). Combine that with needing to place a digit directly in the path of the blade as you unlock said blade and I come to the conclusion that both designs are inferior to many of the available alternatives.

I know you weren't talking to me, but if we're gonna make this an anti-framelock party we gotta get started! :D
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I'll second this. Not crazy about flippers and framelocks, but Quiet, any time you change your opinion, I'll be happy to help you getting rid of that Wayfarer... :D
 
flipper_UPLOAD_zpskziwnuyx.jpg


How can you say no to that face?
 
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