The other problem is that it maxes out at 3/16th knife thickness. So that's $1000 for a device that won't work with 50% of my Busses. That Russian gizmo everyone was talking about last week had the same problem.
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Apex Edge Pro, Wicked Edge or KME Sharpening System For Busse & Kin Knives ??
- Thread starter Azula Gun Holsters
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The other problem is that it maxes out at 3/16th knife thickness. So that's $1000 for a device that won't work with 50% of my Busses. That Russian gizmo everyone was talking about last week had the same problem.
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You can do any knife or axe with the russian sharpener.
[video=youtube;V_MVuR0hFQk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_MVuR0hFQk[/video]
Azula Gun Holsters
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Any blade thickness limitations on the KME ?
That Russian sharpener does look very well made.
It would be a whole lot easier to decide if all the sharpeners were lined up and you could try all of them with different knives. Probably would be really easy to choose at that point.
That Russian sharpener does look very well made.
It would be a whole lot easier to decide if all the sharpeners were lined up and you could try all of them with different knives. Probably would be really easy to choose at that point.
That is a really cool work around; thanks for posting it. Just to be clear though, the system as sold will not handle an axe, nor a battle mistress, the largest clamp I could find on the website last time I looked could barely handle a war dog. Here a copy/paste of my post from the thread a couple of weeks ago...
"Based on the info I can find this system can not handle the average Busse knife. The double claps are used for the longer knives, and the two available double camps max out at 2.5 mm (0.98in) and 3.5mm (.137in) thickness... What model are you guys planning to sharpen? There is a something called a "single clamp with extension plates" that will supposedly accommodate up to a 7mm spine thickness, which will hold some smaller Busses, but again the double clamp seems to be superior for knives of substantial length. Most of the videos look like they demo on thin Kitchen knives and pocket knives. If I have misunderstood something let me know because otherwise it seems really well made. Maybe he can machine 0.32 in. double Busse clamp attachment for the Battle Mistresses?"
If anyone gets one, and finds a way to sharpen thicker knives with a machined clamp instead of a home made wooden wedge (which would have to be custom made for each knife profile) and a heavily modified carpenter bench with tool well, I would love to hear.
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Something like this?
Does not make it much easier, they all have their strengths and weaknesses some work well with small knives some work better with larger knives. The standard Wicked Edge Gen 3 clamp can handle blades up to 3/16" thick but they also have jaws for thinner or thicker knives (up to 1/4") The Gen. 2 clamp can also handle blades up to 1/4".
I do not have blades that thick but I just clamped one of the diamond stones in the KME and it was rock solid so I think that it will work well with thick knives.
Azula Gun Holsters
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Something like this?
Does not make it much easier, they all have their strengths and weaknesses some work well with small knives some work better with larger knives. The standard Wicked Edge Gen 3 clamp can handle blades up to 3/16" thick but they also have jaws for thinner or thicker knives (up to 1/4") The Gen. 2 clamp can also handle blades up to 1/4".
I do not have blades that thick but I just clamped one of the diamond stones in the KME and it was rock solid so I think that it will work well with thick knives.
Wow, that is a serious collection of sharpeners.
So you are certainly qualified to answer which sharpener would be best for the Busse & kin knives if you just had to choose one:
KME, Apex Edge Pro or Wicked Edge Pro 3 ?
Thanks
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Something like this?
Does not make it much easier, they all have their strengths and weaknesses some work well with small knives some work better with larger knives. The standard Wicked Edge Gen 3 clamp can handle blades up to 3/16" thick but they also have jaws for thinner or thicker knives (up to 1/4") The Gen. 2 clamp can also handle blades up to 1/4".
I do not have blades that thick but I just clamped one of the diamond stones in the KME and it was rock solid so I think that it will work well with thick knives.
[video=youtube;c3sOuEv0E2I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3sOuEv0E2I[/video]
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Azula Gun Holsters
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1/4" is no issue.
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Thanks for the Pic, looks good. Do you have the deluxe kit with the 50 & 100 diamond hones and the kangaroo leather strop ?
http://www.kmesharp.com/kmeprknshsyd.html
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No I bought the basic diamond starter and purchased the 50 grit stone separately.
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I have been using the KME for a while now. I have most likely sharpened 80 + knives on it. I have reground so many blades my 100 grit is no longer 100 grit lol. Its a very nice sharpener but it has its weakness. As far as cost goes to get "next level sharpness" you will have to fork over some additional coin. Not as much as a WE but only a few hundred less than the WE if you happen to be mil or something else that earns a discount for. So for cost, it IS cheaper, but at the end of the day not as cheap as you may think.
The leather strops and KME emulsions are nice and go down to .1 micron, however, if I were to do it all over again. I would completely avoid them. They work well but not great, in my experience when someone is attempting to go down to a .1 micron level they want the results of an emucalent, beautifully finished 100% even, mirror finish blade and 98% of the time I have been UNABLE to achieve this. Its not very difficult to get the perfect finishes on the cheap steels, but when working with the harder alloys it is significantly harder to get all the scratch marks out, even after using a stone that is well broken in and realizing the scratches are there and consciously trying to get them out before moving to the next stage. I would forego the strops and just move forward with the more expensive chosera stones which more or less eliminate this... Once again getting up there in price much closer to the WE (not saying to go get a WE, just pointing out that price point at the end of the day is not that far off than what you may think).
Don't waste your time with any stones in the KME that aren't the same depth as each other. Constant realignment is not worth the hassle or time.
The KME jaws leave a lot to be desired, knives like to slip and move, and you have to be EXTREMELY CAUTIOUS when clamping the blade down to measure out the angle at the tip middle and heel of the blade in attempting to get the most consistent blade angle as possible. Any knife that has a flat spot on the blade can achieve a solid edge from the KME, however, any blade that has a full grind or smaller more acute blade shape will sometimes have a lot of difficulty with the clamp.
The smaller clamps are very nice for smaller knives but the aluminum is very soft and bent on me the first time I used it. I had to take them out of the clamp device and flatten them on a board in order to use again.
I needed to make a steel flat to put on the back of the KME so it would hold the angle cube, It would be nice to see them do this for us, I also upgraded the knob on the sharpener for a more ergonomic grip.
I know this is a somewhat harsh review but it is honest and objective of the KME,
I WOULD BUY IT AGAIN, but no the leather strops. It works great for everyone who uses it, but if you want the next level edge that looks as beautiful as your knife you may want to consider a different sharpening system than the KME, but if all you want are razor sharp edges and don't care about scratches in the blade or strops leaving some parts of the blade more polished than the others than this is definitely the system for you! This is a hell of a user sharpening system where others are more of a show/perfectionist type of sharpner.
The leather strops and KME emulsions are nice and go down to .1 micron, however, if I were to do it all over again. I would completely avoid them. They work well but not great, in my experience when someone is attempting to go down to a .1 micron level they want the results of an emucalent, beautifully finished 100% even, mirror finish blade and 98% of the time I have been UNABLE to achieve this. Its not very difficult to get the perfect finishes on the cheap steels, but when working with the harder alloys it is significantly harder to get all the scratch marks out, even after using a stone that is well broken in and realizing the scratches are there and consciously trying to get them out before moving to the next stage. I would forego the strops and just move forward with the more expensive chosera stones which more or less eliminate this... Once again getting up there in price much closer to the WE (not saying to go get a WE, just pointing out that price point at the end of the day is not that far off than what you may think).
Don't waste your time with any stones in the KME that aren't the same depth as each other. Constant realignment is not worth the hassle or time.
The KME jaws leave a lot to be desired, knives like to slip and move, and you have to be EXTREMELY CAUTIOUS when clamping the blade down to measure out the angle at the tip middle and heel of the blade in attempting to get the most consistent blade angle as possible. Any knife that has a flat spot on the blade can achieve a solid edge from the KME, however, any blade that has a full grind or smaller more acute blade shape will sometimes have a lot of difficulty with the clamp.
The smaller clamps are very nice for smaller knives but the aluminum is very soft and bent on me the first time I used it. I had to take them out of the clamp device and flatten them on a board in order to use again.
I needed to make a steel flat to put on the back of the KME so it would hold the angle cube, It would be nice to see them do this for us, I also upgraded the knob on the sharpener for a more ergonomic grip.
I know this is a somewhat harsh review but it is honest and objective of the KME,
I WOULD BUY IT AGAIN, but no the leather strops. It works great for everyone who uses it, but if you want the next level edge that looks as beautiful as your knife you may want to consider a different sharpening system than the KME, but if all you want are razor sharp edges and don't care about scratches in the blade or strops leaving some parts of the blade more polished than the others than this is definitely the system for you! This is a hell of a user sharpening system where others are more of a show/perfectionist type of sharpner.
Azula Gun Holsters
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Nice and balanced review, just a few remarks....
All sharpeners have their strengths and weaknesses so it would be best to choose the one that suits the majority of your knives. For the rest of them it is usually possible to make a few tweaks to get it to work with those as well.
Since a few months, they have a stone thickness compensator which eliminates this problem. Other sharpening systems also have this problem so for the Wicked Edge you would also need their Variable Stone Thickness Adapter or a drill stop collar for the Edge Pro Apex.
Most clamping systems work well with knives that have a flat spot on the blade but less well for FFG or hollow grind blades. Folding a piece of thin leather or chamois over the spine will usually do the trick and fills the gap.
I have no experience with Busse or Kin knives, the majority of my knives are folders up to 4" and kitchen knives up to 8" in length.
Most of the time I prefer the KME (or even the Lansky) for my smaller knives like traditional folders and small kitchen knives like paring knives. For those it has a permanent place on my desk and is ready for use whenever I need it. It can of course handle larger knives as well if needed.
For my larger (tactical) folders and kitchen knives I absolutely love the Wicked Edge and if I could only keep one system than this would be it. The downside is that it is very expensive and with all the bells and whistles takes up a lot of space so best suitable for a dedicated workshop. You can see that the WE is made by enthusiast who keep trying to make it better and developing accessories that will make it more versatile. I love the two-handed operation and the quality of the whole system. The results I get with it are superb.
The Edge Pro Apex might be the best suitable system for your Busse & Kin knives because it is not a clamping system and therefor has no thickness or size limitations but I never could get used to holding the knife stable and having to switch hands so I hated it and sold it again. When the Chinese clones started to appear I thought I should give it another try and found that I still did not like it as-is but I modified it. I replaced the pivot with a ball joint rod end, glued a strong Neodymium magnet under the table to hold the knife in place and added a drill stop collar as a stone thickness compensator. I can now use it without having to switch hands or having to hold the knife and that made all the difference.
The reason I have so many systems is because I love sharpening and if possible, I like to try them for myself instead of relying on the experience of others. It is always hard to recommend a particular system because we all have our preferences and what works for me might not work for you. I have the experience that you can get great results with just about any system as long as you learn how to use it properly and tweak it to your needs if needed.
Hope this helps.
Frans
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Very helpful, thank you
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I agree with fvdk for the most part, I could have clarified a few things with a little more accuracy but I was tired and didn't want to ramble. All systems have their weakness and strengths you obviously have to find what works best for you. fvdk has more experinece with differnt set ups than me. I have extensive use in free hand, lansky and kme.
Also KME would be a much stronger sharpener for my needs if they had a set of jaws just dedicated to large fixed blades and a longer rod to accomodate larger blades. I wouldn't be surprised if they are working on something like that right now as week speak, very logical next step for them to expand.
The types of blades I have had issues sharpening on the KME are small very acute blade designs like spyderco folders, Benchmade's that have blade symmetry similar like a dagger or a grind like on the 940-1. AS WELL AS Large fixed blades, ANY OVER 10" and ANY hearty fixed blade that has a thick tip, (where the tip does not taper to a fine point). Many Busse if not all fit that description along with others like, Esee, Ka-bar etc.
With a lot of KME experience these issues are manageable but to someone just starting out or not too experienced or stones not completely broken in should cautiously wait until they feel they have the skills necessary to take on those larger blades without messing them up. Once again if you don't care about the cosmetic out come... then just have at it hoss and do what you got to do. The KME will still put a laser edge on it but your bevel at the tip will be so wide and thinned out it will look funny and most likely have an uneven finish.
I will upgrade to the WE pro 3 eventually. The cost is a big burden. I don't think anyone should just dive into a system that expensive until you have learned the skills necessary to get what you want from the WE.
I agree you need to know how to use a stone and hand strop FIRST, PERIOD. Then you could play around with a basic lansky for 20-30 bucks on some cheap knives. Then jump up to whatever your preference is, then in my opinion after that jump then transition to the WE if you are stiff unfulfilled.
Also KME would be a much stronger sharpener for my needs if they had a set of jaws just dedicated to large fixed blades and a longer rod to accomodate larger blades. I wouldn't be surprised if they are working on something like that right now as week speak, very logical next step for them to expand.
The types of blades I have had issues sharpening on the KME are small very acute blade designs like spyderco folders, Benchmade's that have blade symmetry similar like a dagger or a grind like on the 940-1. AS WELL AS Large fixed blades, ANY OVER 10" and ANY hearty fixed blade that has a thick tip, (where the tip does not taper to a fine point). Many Busse if not all fit that description along with others like, Esee, Ka-bar etc.
With a lot of KME experience these issues are manageable but to someone just starting out or not too experienced or stones not completely broken in should cautiously wait until they feel they have the skills necessary to take on those larger blades without messing them up. Once again if you don't care about the cosmetic out come... then just have at it hoss and do what you got to do. The KME will still put a laser edge on it but your bevel at the tip will be so wide and thinned out it will look funny and most likely have an uneven finish.
I will upgrade to the WE pro 3 eventually. The cost is a big burden. I don't think anyone should just dive into a system that expensive until you have learned the skills necessary to get what you want from the WE.
I agree you need to know how to use a stone and hand strop FIRST, PERIOD. Then you could play around with a basic lansky for 20-30 bucks on some cheap knives. Then jump up to whatever your preference is, then in my opinion after that jump then transition to the WE if you are stiff unfulfilled.
Azula Gun Holsters
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Thank You
Azula Gun Holsters
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Broke out the 20 year old Lansky Diamond Kit. Have not used it for at least 10 years.
Did a little youtube brush up and got a couple of tips from this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlI5PaXsfOk
Sharpened the first Busse ever.
Turned our really well. Did not scratch the blade and the knife is very sharp. Only have a fine stone ( 600) and think the edge would be even sharper with the 1000 and 2000 stone.
Looks like there is also a leather strop available and a new updated clamp. Will give those a try as well.
Knife Came Well Used With Scratches - Lansky Did Not Scratch Blade
The 1000 and 2000 Stone Would Polish The Edge More Than The 600 Stone I had
Did a little youtube brush up and got a couple of tips from this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlI5PaXsfOk
Sharpened the first Busse ever.
Turned our really well. Did not scratch the blade and the knife is very sharp. Only have a fine stone ( 600) and think the edge would be even sharper with the 1000 and 2000 stone.
Looks like there is also a leather strop available and a new updated clamp. Will give those a try as well.
Knife Came Well Used With Scratches - Lansky Did Not Scratch Blade
The 1000 and 2000 Stone Would Polish The Edge More Than The 600 Stone I had
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That is actually one of the better videos available about the Lansky. I would make a marking at the side of the clamp as an indication of how deep the knife was placed in the clamp (or use the notches) so the next time it can be placed in exactly the same position. (I used a metal saw to make the markings).
I would also hold the stone on top at the middle or closer to the rod. That way it will naturally be pushed down a little and not rattle in the guide holes and there would be no risk of your fingers hitting the knife edge.
There have been numerous complaints about the new updated clamp. The rubber inserts came loose, when using the 17 degrees setting, the stone would hit the clamp. It was almost impossible to securely clamp smaller blades etc.... They removed the complaints from the site but this was the reason that they brought back the original style clamp. The soft-grip clamp will probably work with your larger knives but so does your original clamp.
Azula Gun Holsters
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That is actually one of the better videos available about the Lansky. I would make a marking at the side of the clamp as an indication of how deep the knife was placed in the clamp (or use the notches) so the next time it can be placed in exactly the same position. (I used a metal saw to make the markings).
I would also hold the stone on top at the middle or closer to the rod. That way it will naturally be pushed down a little and not rattle in the guide holes and there would be no risk of your fingers hitting the knife edge.
There have been numerous complaints about the new updated clamp. The rubber inserts came loose, when using the 17 degrees setting, the stone would hit the clamp. It was almost impossible to securely clamp smaller blades etc.... They removed the complaints from the site but this was the reason that they brought back the original style clamp. The soft-grip clamp will probably work with your larger knives but so does your original clamp.
Great tips, thank you. Ended up holding my finger on the top of the rod behind the clamp angle slot to keep the rod on the bottom of the slot and consistent.
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This thread has some great advice, as do many of the extended sharpening threads. And the critique is great. Which is why, when I say that the KME is my favorite, I always try to add that there is a learning curve with ALL of the systems. And if you are willing to spend the time to learn the nuances of any particular system, you will be able to get the most out of it.
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