Are we our own worst enemy?

May I ask an honest question here:

If a "value consious" collector finds a knife that is very likely to increase in value, does he buy it regardless if he likes it or not?
And how would the opposite senario work, where the same collector finds a knife he really likes but is likely to decrease in value, would he buy it?

I asume both could happen, but in general, what do you think would be more likely?


I also wonder if a new knifemaker is ever likely to gain reputation enough to see his knives increase in value when all these "value consious" collectors never talk favorably about him just because he is new.
All "big name makers" have been new "no-names" at one point, whos knives where regarded as "non profitable" investments.
When did that change? Did collectors wait till the value started to rise? But then how could that happen if no one buys his knives?

I can actually see why some of the speculations that take place here does both good and bad regarding the value of certain knives.

Regards
/Magnus
 
Speaking for myself (and preferring "value conscious" to "profit minded"):

Magnus Axelson said:
May I ask an honest question here:

If a "profit minded" collector finds a knife that is very likely to increase in value, does he buy it regardless if he likes it or not?

I have never bought a knife I didn't like, just because I might likely turn a profit on it.

And how would the opposite senario work, where the same collector finds a knife he really likes but is likely to decrease in value, would he buy it?

I have done this on more than a few occasions, but they remain the significant exception to the rule. In each case, I understood what I was doing and why.
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On every occasion that this topic is raised I feel the need to point out that "buying what you like" and "making a smart purchase investment" are NOT mutually exclusive approaches - in fact, they are quite integral. Like STeven I put the PIECE first, followed by maker and price. If I don't like the piece, I don't buy it - regardless of who made it or how good a deal it might be.

Roger
 
RogerP said:
Speaking for myself (and preferring "value conscious" to "profit minded"):



On every occasion that this topic is raised I feel the need to point out that "buying what you like" and "making a smart purchase investment" are NOT mutually exclusive approaches - in fact, they are quite integral. Like STeven I put the PIECE first, followed by maker and price. If I don't like the piece, I don't buy it - regardless of who made it or how good a deal it might be.

Roger
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I see, thanks.
I am sorry, value consious sounds a lot better. Edited original post.
Never meant to insult in any way :o

Any thoughts on my second question there?

Regards
/Magnus
 
Magnus Axelson said:
May I ask an honest question here:

If a "value consious" collector finds a knife that is very likely to increase in value, does he buy it regardless if he likes it or not?

No, not for the collection. But if it is a case of the knife being clearly under valued and easy to sell, Yes.

And how would the opposite senario work, where the same collector finds a knife he really likes but is likely to decrease in value, would he buy it?

I would try to remain disciplined and not buy it. But sometimes...;)

I asume both could happen, but in general, what do you think would be more likely?

Probably I would weaken and buy the knife that I really liked.

I also wonder if a new knifemaker is ever likely to gain reputation enough to see his knives increase in value when all these "value consious" collectors never talk favorably about him just because he is new.
All "big name makers" have been new "no-names" at one point, whos knives where regarded as "non profitable" investments.
When did that change? Did collectors wait till the value started to rise? But then how could that happen if no one buys his knives?

If the quality is TRUELY outstanding, in every aspect, your work will stand out. Go over to the table of a "hot" maker, ask yourself HONESTLY how your knives stack up. What to you need to do to improve your work to that guy's standard?

Regards
/Magnus
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I hope this helps.

P
 
WWG I really do admire your sales and marketing skills. I feel sorry for you that you don't love knives enough to own even one custom knife that has not increased in value. I also know Paul Bausch, and you sir are no Paul Bausch. Your statements here, in interviews and in your articles have consistent theme of pushing "your" makers as great knives and great investments. Your secondary theme is how to market knives and is designed so you can capture the next hot knifemaker. That isn't Paul's way.

One thing about "value-centered" collecting is you can't predict the future. If you wish to get your value out of a knife, you are probably best not holding onto it more than a few years. Sure your Loveless, Warenski, Onion, etc. will be worth money for many years, but the market will peak, and then it will fall. That's life. I think this is one fact that gets a lot of you scared when you see famous knives sell for less or the same as the previous sale. Will you sell before it falls below your purchase price or do you love the knife enough to keep it?

One thing that appears to be comeing out of this thread is that value-centered collecting is done by those who can't really afford to spend the money. They justify the expense by calling it an investment. Is this true?
 
There seems to be 2 distinctly different types of collectors on these forums
Type A...the LOVERS...
Love the PIECE
Love the MAKER
Love the PRICE

PIECE...MAKER...PRICE

Type B...the THINKERS...
Safe MAKER {everyone knows the dozen or so}
Safe PIECE {ivory bowies}
Safe PRICE {ROI}

MAKER...PIECE...PRICE...

It sometimes seems like types A and B speak in different tongues but hopefully understand what each other is saying...
 
brownshoe said:
One thing that appears to be comeing out of this thread is that value-centered collecting is done by those who can't really afford to spend the money. They justify the expense by calling it an investment. Is this true?
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It must be really nice to be so rich that you never have to concern yourself with resale values.
I can't afford the luxury of your spending habits.

P
 
One thing that appears to be comeing out of this thread is that value-centered collecting is done by those who can't really afford to spend the money. They justify the expense by calling it an investment. Is this true?
Click to expand...

I think you are dead wrong on that. Value centered collecting is done by people who don't enjoy losing money. I am sure Donald Trump would be a value centered collector--even though he can afford to throw money away, why would he want to?
 
*I also wonder if a new knifemaker is ever likely to gain reputation enough to see his knives increase in value when all these "value consious" collectors never talk favorably about him just because he is new.
All "big name makers" have been new "no-names" at one point, whos knives where regarded as "non profitable" investments.
When did that change? Did collectors wait till the value started to rise? But then how could that happen if no one buys his knives?*

If the quality is TRUELY outstanding, in every aspect, your work will stand out. Go over to the table of a "hot" maker, ask yourself HONESTLY how your knives stack up. What to you need to do to improve your work to that guy's standard?
Click to expand...

I see what you mean, thanks.
I have acctually tried that approach as far as it has been possible, by that I mean I have only been to shows here in sweden.
But I will soon get the opportunity to go to New York for the ECCKS show this february.

Any more thoughts on the question above?*

Regards
/Magnus
 
It just occurred to me what bothers me about the whole "resale value" motive, and therefore why I agree with the minority (in this thread, anyway).

"Value conscious" purchasing implies you will never use your knives. That's like buying a Ferrari that you never drive, or dating a member of the Swedish Bikini Team without the intention of ever taking her for a roll in the hay.

Knives are tools. They are designed and made to be used.

Use your knives!
 
bluejaunte said:
It just occurred to me what bothers me about the whole "resale value" motive, and therefore why I agree with the minority (in this thread, anyway).

"Value conscious" purchasing implies you will never use your knives. That's like buying a Ferrari that you never drive, or dating a member of the Swedish Bikini Team without the intention of ever taking her for a roll in the hay.

Knives are tools. They are designed and made to be used.

Use your knives!
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Now there`s something that would ruin the resale value! :rolleyes:

But I agree, knives are tools.

But then again, If I were to collect medieval swords for exampel, I could do that and be very happy without using them.
Regardless if they are genuine or well made replicas.

Regards
/Magnus
 
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Magnus Axelson said:
I see what you mean, thanks.
I have acctually tried that approach as far as it has been possible, by that I mean I have only been to shows here in sweden.
But I will soon get the opportunity to go to New York for the ECCKS show this february.

Any more thoughts on the question above?*

Regards
/Magnus
Click to expand...

Magnus,

I visited your website, and quite obviously you have very good skills. I know that in Sweden it is very common to finish blades made by other makers. But I think if you are looking to take your work to the next level, you need to make your own blades so that the finished knives are completely your own work. Your sheath work is outstanding!

The States will be a hard market for you because of the weakness of the dollar.

P
 
ptgdvc said:
Magnus,

I visited your website, and quite obviously you have very good skills. I know that in Sweden it is very common to finish blades made by other makers. But I think if you are looking to take your work to the next level, you need to make your own blades so that the finished knives are completely your own work. Your sheath work is outstanding!

Thank you so much, appreciated!
I have started making blades and have finished a few soleauthoeship knives.

But this thread is not about me.

The States will be a hard market for you because of the weakness of the dollar.

I know... :(


P
Click to expand...

Regards
/Magnus
 
bluejaunte said:
"Value conscious" purchasing implies you will never use your knives. That's like buying a Ferrari that you never drive, or dating a member of the Swedish Bikini Team without the intention of ever taking her for a roll in the hay.

Knives are tools. They are designed and made to be used.

Use your knives!
Click to expand...

What, so you're saying that unles you use your knives, you shouldn't bother buying them? Don't think too many makers would buy into that - they'd go hungry pretty fast. Considering that a quality knife, well cared-for will outlast its owner, how many USING knives does one NEED? 3 or 4, tops? How many knives will a collector buy, in comparison?

Nothing wrong with using your knives if you choose to. But it's a bit much to suggest that those that don't have made a pointless purchase.

I have a few quality custom users that I put to work - like pretty much all my knives, they were a good value, too. ;)

Roger
 
Magnus Axelson said:
I also wonder if a new knifemaker is ever likely to gain reputation enough to see his knives increase in value when all these "value consious" collectors never talk favorably about him just because he is new.
All "big name makers" have been new "no-names" at one point, whos knives where regarded as "non profitable" investments.
When did that change? Did collectors wait till the value started to rise? But then how could that happen if no one buys his knives?


Regards
/Magnus
Click to expand...

I think the forums are one of the best tools for "discovering" a new and rising maker (second to going to multiple knife shows per year yourself). The newer makers probably won't be on the cover of Blade, but if a forumnite spots superior quality, design and strong value in a new maker, odds are he'll make a purchase and show it here. I know I have - and more than a few times at that.

And of course, many newer makers participate here - both because it is a great place to learn and because it provides them with a place to show their work to an interested audience.

I don't think anyone could fairly describe the custom forum as one reserved for, or even dominated by, knives of makers in the extreme upper eschelon. As I have said before, good value can be found at many price points. You can get great value in a $300 JS carbon hunter and poor value in a $3000 MS damascus bowie. You can also get the reverse.


Roger

PS - Your Rustic Citadel with bogoak handle is outstanding!
 
If I only collected knives to use, I'd only end up with a handful of kitchen knives, a boxcutter, X-acto craft knife, and a Swiss Army knife. Talk about no fun in collecting.
 
Joss said:
I agree, this is the worst time for a European to come sell their ware in the US.
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It's a mixed blessing for for me. With the Canadian dollar trading slightly ahead of the US for the first time in several decades, my buying power has never been better. But the value of my existing collection is effectively reduced, as the vast majority of those knives were purchased when the Canuckbuck was a lot weaker. If I sell a knife for US$1.2k now that I paid $1k for several years ago - that's now a break-even deal.

Roger
 
Brownshoe:

I feel sorry for you that you don't love knives enough to own even one custom knife that has not increased in value.
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Obviously you haven't read my book. What started me down the path I am on now was that I LOST money on every knife of the first $10,000 worth I ever bought. Question to you....Why would you continue to utilize the same "concept" of purchase when all it did was cost you money? Initially my idea was to enable myself to make "Smart" purchases. I did this through hours and hours of research. Buying one knife out of three that I was really interested in.


I also know Paul Bausch, and you sir are no Paul Bausch. Your statements here, in interviews and in your articles have consistent theme of pushing "your" makers as great knives and great investments. Your secondary theme is how to market knives and is designed so you can capture the next hot knifemaker. That isn't Paul's way.
Click to expand...

Again, you are not reading what I am writing. What I said, and others have qualified that. Is I try to offer insights to the custom knife market to any and all who ask. Which is what I learned from Paul. I think if Paul had utilized some of my business strategies, he would have never went out of business.

Brownshoe, of course I market the makers I represent. What you fail to understand is that I represent them because they have met the criteria I have developed over the last 23 years.

As they say, I put my money where my mouth is. The majority of the makers I have worked with on a regular basis over the years, started before most collectors have ever heard of them.

This is very evident over the last 5 years on the forged lade side of the house.

While I can't exactly predict the future. I have been around so long that I have seen the "cycles" come and go. This allows me to be ahead of the curve when it comes to trends and makers.

Every day, either by phone, emails or shows I am talking to collectors. Who are telling me what they are looking or and why.

Which is why my "Vanguard" series and it's precursor The LDC Knives were so successful

This is why I can offer a "TRADE IN POLICY" that no one else does. Why do you think it is that every other dealer doesn't offer this?

Lastly "Value-Centered Collecting" is your term. I talk about purchasing knives that are "Value Priced." No it is not the same thing.

The thing I am taking from your posts is that you really don't know anything about me or my business.

WWG
 
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