As a hard user of knives, I worry about KAI's direction.

[Rat Finkenstein]

as a hard user of knives, you should be asking for more fixed blades.

 

[Kai Corp.]

Well obviously...

I'm unsure if it was that obvious, and I'm unsure if you really truly understand the effect on our companies "one time loss". General Sales and Marketing 101 don't always apply. In the end, we question if the profit is made elsewhere within ZT sales. It's difficult to pinpoint and see with any real clarity. That certainly isn't obvious.

 

[o4tg]

Perspective and understanding go a long way in discussions like this.

I’d like to address the short runs with new designs, and the variations/boutique production with existing product, along with some history and generality.

The ZT brand is a fairly young brand that currently has a limited amount of patterns that are available. It becomes challenging when you are trying to grow and produce a new brand like ZT while maintaining and evolving a mature brand like Kershaw. Throw in Shun, Pure Komachi, and the Houswares side, and mix it with our URI (Old Spice, Noxema, Kasho, etc…) beauty care portion of our business, and it gets complex very quickly.

With this complexity comes expectations from the consumer. Zero Tolerance is our smallest brand, and produces the least amount of profit within the organization. At the same time, it, Shun, and Kasho (http://www.kasho-usa.com/), are the most difficult and time consuming to produce. This is important for your understanding.

When it comes to ZT design direction, the intention was never for it to be a specialty brand that played in one genre. Originally we felt that the overbuilt folder genre would be a good category to use in launching the brand. In many cases, to be successful with a new brand you have to invest heavily on the launch, and hope popularity will eventually take over. The overbuilt folders did what we hoped they would do, and ZT became a brand in our little marketplace. We were happy, as that in itself can be a lot of time, effort, and money, with no guarantee.

With the foundation in place, we were now able to better concentrate on taking the ZT brand and filling it out to our vision. Our vision was not to be CRK’s and/or Strideresque like with our identity. No, our vision was much wider and diverse in what we could deliver, and how we wanted to be identified as a brand. Our vision was to have a wide variety of flavors, makers, genres, etc. so that we could share and have interest from users and enthusiasts from all walks to enjoy. This is how we felt we could expand and leap past those that specialize, and capture the true variety that the spectrum of the knife world has to offer.

Zero Tolerance the brand will never produce itself into a corner and be known for just one style. It will blossom into and be known for many strengths with design. We only need but more time so to carry out our vision.

As of today, there are both collector pieces and there are users. in both cases there can be limited production. Some folks like to use there knives in either case. They are both designed to do so. With the brand popularity secondary prices are starting to move. Discontinued product, as well as LE are seeing strong movements. This is a good thing for the brand. Again, there will be diversity within the brand. Each piece we produce wont always be for you, but they will be for someone. Try not to confuse our direction with your preferences. We understand that there are those originals out there that want more overbuilt, and while we've fed you in the past, you're looking for more. To that I say give it time. We have not, and will never abandon that genre.

The brand is still establishing itself, and the best is yet to come.

Thanks for the understanding.

Thank you for the response and it makes me optimistic. As a guy who loves the 0350, 0300, and 0200 I'm glad to hear you're not resting on your laurels for this genre of excessively tough knives. My fear that the ZT brand was being watered down with boutique models is subsided for now.

I hope no offense was taken and I look forward to your future products.

I still think the Swerve should have been beefed up with S30V, a thicker liner, 3D machined G10, and made in the US and sold under the ZT line, but I'll live.

 

[o4tg]

as a hard user of knives, you should be asking for more fixed blades.

I'm covered in that department by customs. I do prefer production folders though based on the possibility of losing or damaging them. I may use folders for more tasks than most people would, but my ZT takes it kike a champ with no signs of quitting anytime soon.

 

[NeverMore1701]

I'm covered in that department by customs. I do prefer production folders though based on the possibility of losing or damaging them. I may use folders for more tasks than most people would, but my ZT takes it kike a champ with no signs of quitting anytime soon.

So what, exactly, is the problem?

 

[Kai Corp.]

I hope no offense was taken and I look forward to your future products.

None taken.

 

[o4tg]

So what, exactly, is the problem?

Sorry, I didn't know wanting more ZT's that appealed to me was an offense....

 

[Kai Corp.]

While working on new design arena's, and with designers that work in other area's outside of overbuilt, one of the ways we've tried to pacify the big boy crowd is by creating many variations of the existing patterns. Some are LE's, and others like the new BlackWash 0301 and 0560 will be regular production. Hopefully they see this as our contribution to the category while being tied up with other direction.

 

[VENI VIDI VICI]

Perspective and understanding go a long way in discussions like this.

I’d like to address the short runs with new designs, and the variations/boutique production with existing product, along with some history and generality.

The ZT brand is a fairly young brand that currently has a limited amount of patterns that are available. It becomes challenging when you are trying to grow and produce a new brand like ZT while maintaining and evolving a mature brand like Kershaw. Throw in Shun, Pure Komachi, and the Houswares side, and mix it with our URI (Old Spice, Noxema, Kasho, etc…) beauty care portion of our business, and it gets complex very quickly.

With this complexity comes expectations from the consumer. Zero Tolerance is our smallest brand, and produces the least amount of profit within the organization. At the same time, it, Shun, and Kasho (http://www.kasho-usa.com/), are the most difficult and time consuming to produce. This is important for your understanding.

When it comes to ZT design direction, the intention was never for it to be a specialty brand that played in one genre. Originally we felt that the overbuilt folder genre would be a good category to use in launching the brand. In many cases, to be successful with a new brand you have to invest heavily on the launch, and hope popularity will eventually take over. The overbuilt folders did what we hoped they would do, and ZT became a brand in our little marketplace. We were happy, as that in itself can be a lot of time, effort, and money, with no guarantee.

With the foundation in place, we were now able to better concentrate on taking the ZT brand and filling it out to our vision. Our vision was not to be CRK’s and/or Strideresque like with our identity. No, our vision was much wider and diverse in what we could deliver, and how we wanted to be identified as a brand. Our vision was to have a wide variety of flavors, makers, genres, etc. so that we could share and have interest from users and enthusiasts from all walks to enjoy. This is how we felt we could expand and leap past those that specialize, and capture the true variety that the spectrum of the knife world has to offer.

Zero Tolerance the brand will never produce itself into a corner and be known for just one style. It will blossom into and be known for many strengths with design. We only need but more time so to carry out our vision.

As of today, there are both collector pieces and there are users. in both cases there can be limited production. Some folks like to use there knives in either case. They are both designed to do so. With the brand popularity secondary prices are starting to move. Discontinued product, as well as LE are seeing strong movements. This is a good thing for the brand. Again, there will be diversity within the brand. Each piece we produce wont always be for you, but they will be for someone. Try not to confuse our direction with your preferences. We understand that there are those originals out there that want more overbuilt, and while we've fed you in the past, you're looking for more. To that I say give it time. We have not, and will never abandon that genre.

The brand is still establishing itself, and the best is yet to come.

Thanks for the understanding.

you guys have definently achieved your goal! Also, is the zero tolerance name describing the zero tolerance for low quality? At first i thought of it like zero tolerance for hard use failure (0200 in mind) but than with the classy perfect looking 0777 and the new 0454, i take it to meaning zero tolerance for flaws, wich it seems u have managed
Anywho, i have no other brand to look for, the ZT line has everything i ever wanted, and more

 

[NeverMore1701]

Our vision was not to be CRK’s and/or Strideresque like with our identity.

Zero Tolerance the brand will never produce itself into a corner and be known for just one style.

This, I think, will be the key to the brand's longevity and success.

 

[Kai Corp.]

This, I think, will be the key to the brand's longevity and success.

We think so, which is why we made choices in designers like Todd and Dmitry, which are design worlds away from Rick and RJ. What it will bring is knife spice for a wide range of interests. The attraction should have reach well beyond one specific (in this case, crowded) segment of the market. There are many knife tastes in the marketplace, and we hope to be able to offer and capture our portion with a smorgasbord approach.

 

[Steel130]

We think so, which is why we made choices in designers like Todd and Dmitry, which are design worlds away from Rick and RJ. What it will bring is knife spice for a wide range of interests. The attraction should have reach well beyond one specific (in this case, crowded) segment of the market. There are many knife tastes in the marketplace, and we hope to be able to offer and capture our portion with a smorgasbord approach.

I think you guys are doing a fantastic job of mixing styles. Not only that, you are mixing in new blade steels, finishes, sizes, and appealing to what your fan base wants as well (0566 was a great direction I think).

This is the first year that I have wanted one of every model being shown, good for you, me, but not my wallet .

 

[jimmer_5]

This is not the first time that this question has been raised, and I take no issue with the OP asking. I will continue to state what we have been saying for the last two years - we see the ZT Brand as being more than just a small line of overbuilt knives. We see it as being the best we can build, and we want to expand our brand to include other genres of knives. That means that we will make lighter duty knives, heavy duty knives, and some that fall in between.

This also starts coming down to definitions - how do you define a "hard use knife? I feel like the 0600 with it's 0.1875" (3/16") thick blade and heavily textured handles would be a solid, hard-use knife, but the OP feels otherwise. Sure it's a limited edition model, but it's still tough as nails. Does it need a G-10 handle to be considered hard use? TO be fair, I know the OP is simply asking for more simple, rugged knives, but my point is that it can be hard to define what a "hard use knife" really is. I think that a solid titanium handled knife like the 0801 is pretty robust, but some would argue that the titanium is too cold to the touch or too slick, even with heavy texturing.

Then, the next question would be, "what is hard use?" A lot of knives see pretty light use - cutting tags, opening letters and packages, trimming threads, cutting food. A lot of people work in an office these days, ans rarely have the opportunity to use their knives hard. I generally define true "hard use" as carving wood, cutting (copper) wire, digging, skinning game animals, etc. Most people would say prying, but thanks to our litigious culture, I discourage our customers from ever prying or boring holes (using a twisting motion) with any folding knife not matter how robust of a design. If you really want to pry, chop, and beat on your knife, I really suggest getting a fixed blade. However, there are plenty of appropriate "heavy use" tasks that can be safely performed with a folding knife. My point is that we all define them a little differently.

In any case, as KAI Corp has already pointed out, we have no intention of walking away from the simple, rugged, hard-use knives that the ZT brand is known for. As of right now, we are still in catch-up mode. We're building 0801's, 0600's, 0888's, and yes, we will finish out the 0777's. We are making great progress, and for the time being, our new ZT releases have been somewhat limited. However, we do have plans for more beefy hard-use knives in the coming year.

My advice overall?We release new knives every six months - if you don't like what you see at SHOT show, keep an eye open for BLADE show. And so on and so forth.....

 

[Dorito Monk]

I'm fine with the direction KAI seems to be going. I think they're doing good stuff for knife users as well as knife collectors.

I'm not really interested in a lot of the fancier, flashier ZT models coming out (just because they're out of my price range), but I am really happy that they're trying new designs, new steels, and new mechanisms.

Just as an example, It used to be that if you wanted a Zero Tolerance knife, you pretty much had your choice of Ken Onion Folders with recurve or Ken Onion Fixed blades with recurve. Now you've got those, plus a whole bunch more variety, plus a whole lot more new products coming down the pipe that are very different from the existing offerings.

 

[sticktodrum]

Sorry, I didn't know wanting more ZT's that appealed to me was an offense....

A quick look at the title of the thread and your first few posts show that your initial sentiment was that there was a clear problem. What reason would you have to worry about ZT's direction if you didn't feel there was a problem?


It's unfortunate when people make unfounded assumptions such as what the direction of ZT actually is, or even if the market primarily wants what came about at ZT's inception. One of the most robust folders they make, the 0550, is on its way out as I understand, from poor sales. That knife is more recent than the 0300/0350 and can handle just as much if not more "hard use." So much for that. For me, hard use was prying myself out of an elevator with that knife. A shame more people didn't buy it.

Again, having held the new knives I can assert confidently that they are beyond the level of robustness that most people would want in a folder. The 0600 is a knife I'd take over the 0300 and be comfortable putting it through anything. It's that solid.

The 0801 is a very good translation of Todd's Singularity, and neither of those knives should be regarded as collector's pieces. Having spoken to Todd extensively at Blade Show, the issue lies solely in the user of they put any of his designs in a safe. He intends every one of them to be used, used hard, and used extensively.

The conversations I've had with the folks at Kai have given a lot of insight into the company's plans and their direction. "Worry" is one of the more inappropriate reactions that one should have with it, and I recommend you with the group round table interview to get a better perspective of what they're doing and intending to do.

 

[presz]

Anyone else look up the price of the shears in the link? $1100

Perspective and understanding go a long way in discussions like this.

I’d like to address the short runs with new designs, and the variations/boutique production with existing product, along with some history and generality.

The ZT brand is a fairly young brand that currently has a limited amount of patterns that are available. It becomes challenging when you are trying to grow and produce a new brand like ZT while maintaining and evolving a mature brand like Kershaw. Throw in Shun, Pure Komachi, and the Houswares side, and mix it with our URI (Old Spice, Noxema, Kasho, etc…) beauty care portion of our business, and it gets complex very quickly.

With this complexity comes expectations from the consumer. Zero Tolerance is our smallest brand, and produces the least amount of profit within the organization. At the same time, it, Shun, and Kasho (http://www.kasho-usa.com/), are the most difficult and time consuming to produce. This is important for your understanding.

When it comes to ZT design direction, the intention was never for it to be a specialty brand that played in one genre. Originally we felt that the overbuilt folder genre would be a good category to use in launching the brand. In many cases, to be successful with a new brand you have to invest heavily on the launch, and hope popularity will eventually take over. The overbuilt folders did what we hoped they would do, and ZT became a brand in our little marketplace. We were happy, as that in itself can be a lot of time, effort, and money, with no guarantee.

With the foundation in place, we were now able to better concentrate on taking the ZT brand and filling it out to our vision. Our vision was not to be CRK’s and/or Strideresque like with our identity. No, our vision was much wider and diverse in what we could deliver, and how we wanted to be identified as a brand. Our vision was to have a wide variety of flavors, makers, genres, etc. so that we could share and have interest from users and enthusiasts from all walks to enjoy. This is how we felt we could expand and leap past those that specialize, and capture the true variety that the spectrum of the knife world has to offer.

Zero Tolerance the brand will never produce itself into a corner and be known for just one style. It will blossom into and be known for many strengths with design. We only need but more time so to carry out our vision.

As of today, there are both collector pieces and there are users. in both cases there can be limited production. Some folks like to use there knives in either case. They are both designed to do so. With the brand popularity secondary prices are starting to move. Discontinued product, as well as LE are seeing strong movements. This is a good thing for the brand. Again, there will be diversity within the brand. Each piece we produce wont always be for you, but they will be for someone. Try not to confuse our direction with your preferences. We understand that there are those originals out there that want more overbuilt, and while we've fed you in the past, you're looking for more. To that I say give it time. We have not, and will never abandon that genre.

The brand is still establishing itself, and the best is yet to come.

Thanks for the understanding.

 

[oharal]

What is it exactly that makes you a "hard user?" What is it you're doing that precludes a 0770 or 0801 or 0454 from your use? Curious.

 

[TotalDbag]

How many 0777s have we seen on here that have been used hard? How many 0300s? There is nothing wrong with collecting. Most people won't EDC a super expensive limited edition object.

Really? The reason you see more 03xx used is because plainly there's a lot more of them. There's thousands of them out there. Currently there's only a couple hundred (probably less) 0777's out there.

 

[Nullity]

What is it exactly that makes you a "hard user?" What is it you're doing that precludes a 0770 or 0801 or 0454 from your use? Curious.

He explained. Metal handles are uncomfortable in cold weather and carbon-fiber is brittle, compared to his preference, G10.

I've really enjoyed reading the responses, especially from Kai Corp. and jimmer_5. ZT really came out of nowhere and has become a premiere knife brand and they aren't slowing down.

 

[TotalDbag]

Whoops, didn't see this was resolved.