Be Honest... Would you pay $625 for this knife?

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It's sort of like a celebrity following. No doubt the knife must be very capable as it's used on the field by many, but $625 is a bit steep for sheer utility when other knives can do the same job for a fraction of the cost. When you get into artistic aesthetics and embellishments however, then the game changes.
 
Not just no, but HE!! NO

There are some absolutely outstanding makers here that would make the same thing (as good or better) for a fraction.

Yeah, no way.
 
I see people here talking about how there is no benefit if a knife like this. This is how I see it.

Is that knife worth the price? Yeah, probably it is.
Will that knife preform better than my $70 knife? Yes, probably it will
Will this knife make many buyers happy? Oh yeah

On the flip side.

Can I justify a $600 knife let alone afford it? Oh hell no.
Can my $70 knife do everything I personally need it to despite that there is better? Yeah. Yeah it will
Do I really care that there are better knives than my $70 one? Rarely.

I feel like a lot of people need to get out of the mentality then they need the best of the best in their knife. If you want to go drop $675 on this knife then go ahead, you'll be very happy with it because you paid for the best. But please don't act like it's going to act like a light saber and build a log cabin without dulling in a afternoon then give you a clean shave. That's just a way of justifying a purchase that maybe this person knows that they didn't need. That's the thing, it's a knife and nobody here needs a knife like this but you really really want it and that's perfectly fine. I'll stick with my $70 dollar knife because I can't afford more. I also don't like the stress of a high end blade. It's hard to test and use a blade that's worth more than most anything I own because if I break that I'll likely not be able to replace it, and I ruined one mans hours and hours of work. If I'm going to break something I'd rather break 20 minutes of machining and something I can replace on my next pay day. It it all comes down to what you want.

Honestly I wouldn't pay for this knife. Not unless I had the money and felt that I wanted the blade bad enough to justify. If you can, go ahead. Sometimes people just need to settle for what works, not always the best.
 
Wow!

I am really amazed that so many people have such a strong opinion about our Camp Knife. My initial thought was “the folks that want it will buy it and those that don’t won’t”. Pretty much like every other knife we make. But there is a lot of passion here and some people seem to take it very personally that we make what they consider “Expensive Knives”. There are also some that seem to take offense that I don’t make every one by myself.

Here are a few facts:

I have made 100% of my living making knives since 1988. I received my Master rating from the ABS in 1992. This does not make me special but is part of the progression to where I am today. In the mid 2000’s Karen and I started Winkler Knives II because we could no longer keep up with the demand for what some Teams within the US Military wanted. The knives and axes made by Winkler Knives II use the same methods and materials we used in our one of a kind forged pieces. I don’t know how to do it any other way. However we have several other people that work in the shop with us under my direction. The major difference is the knives and axes are not forged and I don’t do all the work on them myself. Karen does not make all the sheaths. This is why they are touch marked “Winkler Knives II” and our forged knives and sheaths are marked either DW or D Winkler. Don’t want any confusion about what each piece is.

I eliminated the forging step for 2 reasons. #1 forging can be dangerous and we take the safety of our employees very seriously. #2 if not done exactly right you can do more harm than good to steel by heating and hammering it. Incorrect forging temperature will do more damage than good to your steel. My personal tests have shown when properly heat treated there is no better performance in a forged blade and a stock removal blade made from the same steel. (This statement should also start some arguments).

Are our prices high? I guess that all depends on what you are comparing. I have never set prices based on what other makers charge or what the market will bear. I set prices on what they cost to make. I have owned and used low cost knives and high dollar ($500 +) knives. What I have learned is you can break anything if you try hard enough. Low cost knives generally break quicker than high dollar knives. The biggest thing I have learned is find a maker you trust. Factory or custom, it doesn’t matter and communicate if there is a problem. Don’t think if a knife is made from the newest most high tech sexy steel it will be better than a knife made from an old file. It all depends on knowledgeable design and heat treating. Cost is more than just the appearance of a knife. Thought should go into knowledge, reputation and performance too.

If a customer has an issue with one of my products I hope they will allow me to make it right rather than complain and I not know about it. I also take customer satisfaction very seriously.

Is Winkler Knives II Custom, Mid-Tech or Factory? I guess it all depends on your point of view. We hand grind all the knives and axes so are we “Custom”? We contract for Water Jet Cutting so are we Mid-Tech”? We have about 12 people working so are we a “Factory”? I guess we are a little of everything.

So to address the original topic some people think our Camp Knife is worth the investment so they will buy one. Some people can’t see spending $625 on that or any knife so they won’t buy one. We don’t make something for everyone but what we make we stand behind. If you want a knife or axe with my personal guarantee then we look forward to working with you. Do we make the perfect knife that will never break or need sharpening? No, but we will keep trying.

Daniel
 
I'm a LONG TIME Winkler fan back when Last of The Mohicans came out. Around that time I bought the knife you see below, and counted myself lucky to get it[ and sheath by Karen]. High end forging and a beautiful sheath to boot. I paid $600 for it then.
In recent years and as we all know he's shifted his focus away from those early gems and I've been one of those who has scratched his head. I have no experience with his current line but and lament the days when he did the other stuff.



 
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Dear Daniel.
Thank You for your time posting here.
For me too, trusting the maker or the company is so important. Knives are tools and it's good to know you can rely on them.
Your knives give me that feeling.
red mag
 
I'd never pay that much for any knife, but If for some reason I wanted to, I probably never buy that one. There are so, so many knives on that price range to choose from.

You can get your dream knife made in almost any steel you want and with almost any handle material for that much money.

You could even buy more than one high end user knife in case the first one breaks for whatever reason.

Not to mention you can travel reasonably well for a month with that much money.

Of course, prices are there to be paid or not. I dont think that price is an insult or anything, you like it you buy it, you dont and you dont.
 
DWinkler said:
Wow!

I am really amazed that so many people have such a strong opinion about our Camp Knife. My initial thought was “the folks that want it will buy it and those that don’t won’t”. Pretty much like every other knife we make. But there is a lot of passion here and some people seem to take it very personally that we make what they consider “Expensive Knives”. There are also some that seem to take offense that I don’t make every one by myself.

Here are a few facts:

I have made 100% of my living making knives since 1988. I received my Master rating from the ABS in 1992. This does not make me special but is part of the progression to where I am today. In the mid 2000’s Karen and I started Winkler Knives II because we could no longer keep up with the demand for what some Teams within the US Military wanted. The knives and axes made by Winkler Knives II use the same methods and materials we used in our one of a kind forged pieces. I don’t know how to do it any other way. However we have several other people that work in the shop with us under my direction. The major difference is the knives and axes are not forged and I don’t do all the work on them myself. Karen does not make all the sheaths. This is why they are touch marked “Winkler Knives II” and our forged knives and sheaths are marked either DW or D Winkler. Don’t want any confusion about what each piece is.

I eliminated the forging step for 2 reasons. #1 forging can be dangerous and we take the safety of our employees very seriously. #2 if not done exactly right you can do more harm than good to steel by heating and hammering it. Incorrect forging temperature will do more damage than good to your steel. My personal tests have shown when properly heat treated there is no better performance in a forged blade and a stock removal blade made from the same steel. (This statement should also start some arguments).

Are our prices high? I guess that all depends on what you are comparing. I have never set prices based on what other makers charge or what the market will bear. I set prices on what they cost to make. I have owned and used low cost knives and high dollar ($500 +) knives. What I have learned is you can break anything if you try hard enough. Low cost knives generally break quicker than high dollar knives. The biggest thing I have learned is find a maker you trust. Factory or custom, it doesn’t matter and communicate if there is a problem. Don’t think if a knife is made from the newest most high tech sexy steel it will be better than a knife made from an old file. It all depends on knowledgeable design and heat treating. Cost is more than just the appearance of a knife. Thought should go into knowledge, reputation and performance too.

If a customer has an issue with one of my products I hope they will allow me to make it right rather than complain and I not know about it. I also take customer satisfaction very seriously.

Is Winkler Knives II Custom, Mid-Tech or Factory? I guess it all depends on your point of view. We hand grind all the knives and axes so are we “Custom”? We contract for Water Jet Cutting so are we Mid-Tech”? We have about 12 people working so are we a “Factory”? I guess we are a little of everything.

So to address the original topic some people think our Camp Knife is worth the investment so they will buy one. Some people can’t see spending $625 on that or any knife so they won’t buy one. We don’t make something for everyone but what we make we stand behind. If you want a knife or axe with my personal guarantee then we look forward to working with you. Do we make the perfect knife that will never break or need sharpening? No, but we will keep trying.

Daniel
Click to expand...

Thank you for taking the time to post! I look forward to owning a Winkler II belt knife in the future! Just have to decide if I want black Micarta or a TAD edition :)
 
By that post DWinkler made alone I have developed a desire to get one of his knives! There is nothing that prides me more than an American Bladesmith who takes the time to post here and he makes an outstanding knife and stands behind it! That my friends IS why I will never hesitate to spend a month's mortgage on a blade. THANK YOU DANIEL! You Rock!
 
DWinkler said:
Wow!

I am really amazed that so many people have such a strong opinion about our Camp Knife. My initial thought was “the folks that want it will buy it and those that don’t won’t”. Pretty much like every other knife we make. But there is a lot of passion here and some people seem to take it very personally that we make what they consider “Expensive Knives”. There are also some that seem to take offense that I don’t make every one by myself.

Here are a few facts:

I have made 100% of my living making knives since 1988. I received my Master rating from the ABS in 1992. This does not make me special but is part of the progression to where I am today. In the mid 2000’s Karen and I started Winkler Knives II because we could no longer keep up with the demand for what some Teams within the US Military wanted. The knives and axes made by Winkler Knives II use the same methods and materials we used in our one of a kind forged pieces. I don’t know how to do it any other way. However we have several other people that work in the shop with us under my direction. The major difference is the knives and axes are not forged and I don’t do all the work on them myself. Karen does not make all the sheaths. This is why they are touch marked “Winkler Knives II” and our forged knives and sheaths are marked either DW or D Winkler. Don’t want any confusion about what each piece is.

I eliminated the forging step for 2 reasons. #1 forging can be dangerous and we take the safety of our employees very seriously. #2 if not done exactly right you can do more harm than good to steel by heating and hammering it. Incorrect forging temperature will do more damage than good to your steel. My personal tests have shown when properly heat treated there is no better performance in a forged blade and a stock removal blade made from the same steel. (This statement should also start some arguments).

Are our prices high? I guess that all depends on what you are comparing. I have never set prices based on what other makers charge or what the market will bear. I set prices on what they cost to make. I have owned and used low cost knives and high dollar ($500 +) knives. What I have learned is you can break anything if you try hard enough. Low cost knives generally break quicker than high dollar knives. The biggest thing I have learned is find a maker you trust. Factory or custom, it doesn’t matter and communicate if there is a problem. Don’t think if a knife is made from the newest most high tech sexy steel it will be better than a knife made from an old file. It all depends on knowledgeable design and heat treating. Cost is more than just the appearance of a knife. Thought should go into knowledge, reputation and performance too.

If a customer has an issue with one of my products I hope they will allow me to make it right rather than complain and I not know about it. I also take customer satisfaction very seriously.

Is Winkler Knives II Custom, Mid-Tech or Factory? I guess it all depends on your point of view. We hand grind all the knives and axes so are we “Custom”? We contract for Water Jet Cutting so are we Mid-Tech”? We have about 12 people working so are we a “Factory”? I guess we are a little of everything.

So to address the original topic some people think our Camp Knife is worth the investment so they will buy one. Some people can’t see spending $625 on that or any knife so they won’t buy one. We don’t make something for everyone but what we make we stand behind. If you want a knife or axe with my personal guarantee then we look forward to working with you. Do we make the perfect knife that will never break or need sharpening? No, but we will keep trying.

Daniel
Click to expand...

I thank you for your post. It displays your passion for knife making, but it in no way explains how that knife costs $625...

A water jut cut piece of carbon steel with slab handles does not have such a high production cost that it retails for $625 because you "set prices on what they cost to make".

If that were the case an ESEE Junglas would have a similar retail price, not 1/6th the cost.

You are great knife maker. I like your designs and I have a belt knife purchased years ago that I still use. If you price your knives that high because the market will tolerate that and you have made enough of a name for yourself that you can price on reputation than you are doing something right! :thumbup:

However, that still doesn't mean that $625 isn't ridiculously expensive for that particular product. ;) That said, I'm sure you have sold all of them and demand probably outpaces supply :thumbup:
 
I personally wouldn't due to not being moved by the design, but I wouldn't judge someone who did.

I've seen people pay far more cash for far more useless things. ;)
 
I couldn't have said that any better, how cool is it to have talented makers line Daniel respond in real time.
Thank you.

red mag said:
Dear Daniel.
Thank You for your time posting here.
For me too, trusting the maker or the company is so important. Knives are tools and it's good to know you can rely on them.
Your knives give me that feeling.
red mag
Click to expand...
 
Nice knife. Not 600$-nice, but maybe... 400$-nice? As others have stated, value is defined by the people who peel off the bills to pay for it. If you've got paying customers, it's obviously worth the price to someone. Just not me.

I don't find most of the fixed-blades and axes to be too far off the mark, but the folder... nope.
 
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