Brands comparable to busse

Just off a glance they both have high chromium at 7.50 so both will be pretty damn stain resistant compared to 1095

But z wear has a little more carbon content which could mean a little less stain resistance... so I would say 3v is more stain resistant but I'm not a metallurgist.

In my actual experience of owning and using 3v it is very stain resistant.. unless completely and I mean completely neglected for a good amount of time in salt water or a corrosive environment.

And even once 3v rusts it would take YEARS before it effected the integrity of the knife.

I say try 3v first and later get zwear and compare the two. You WONT be disappointed in 3v edge retention, toughness, edge stability, corrosion resistance...
zombieassassin said:
Thanks shiny.....I am definitely Miller Bros Blades bound ,but now to decide 3v or Z-Wear....or both...lol. Of those two, which do ya think is more corrosion resistant?
Click to expand...
 
I have a custom in z-wear, heat treated by peters to 61rc. It's around .020 behind the edge, I've been beating the hell out of it, and it's holding up well. Batonning, chopping into aged oak, and just messing around, just testing it. Hopefully I'll try the edge retention out this weekend on my dads elk hunt. I really like this Steel so far. I haven't had any edge damage yet.
 
Thank you again shinyedges. Yea 3v it is then. I've been eyeing Miller Bros for a while now, reasonable prices and I love their handles.
 
No problem, I checked out miller bro blades website a few weeks back and I liked a few of the designs. Its nice they offer the design in a variety of steels as well, They have several vids of them testing I watched and liked. Let us know how you like what ever knife you pick up and how it holds up to your uses.
zombieassassin said:
Thank you again shinyedges. Yea 3v it is then. I've been eyeing Miller Bros for a while now, reasonable prices and I love their handles.
Click to expand...
 
I will....I will probably go with the M8 in 3v. I watched the vids they have and a few others on utube...very impressed!
 
shinyedges said:
Hello, you must have missed my post where I asked you:

What custom knives in 3v did you have that chipped very easily? Genuinely curious as I've had no problems from production 3v, generally Custom makers get more out of the steel than production.

What material caused the chipping? Thank you.

Edit to add one more question, are you saying you have had multiple knives in 3v from custom makers chip very easily?

Did you contact the maker and tell them your intended use? They tailor hardness to the task its intended for...

You say you have had blades meaning plural , custom knives in 3v... that chipped very easily if what you say is true answering my questions should be easy.
Click to expand...

This was just over 10 years ago. I had two nice custom 3V blades made. They were quite thick and Rc to 59. I chopped into wood like I always do, and yes, there was lots of knots and yes it was frieken cold, 15 degrees, and yes the edges took a severe pounding that put little chips in the edge. They were not dented, they were chipped. I had the knives repaired. The maker redid the edges and sent them back to me. He indicated that I should not have any more problems, but I did not want to try it so I got rid of them. They were beautiful.

As for custom makers getting more out of the steel, not sure about that. No reason why with the proper facilities a shop can't do as well or better since they have the money to do so.

Unfortunately, I do not have video of this way back then. But then again, no one in here seems to have any video or witnesses of anything they did except Busse. Busse had witnesses, knife makers and they did 2771 cuts of 1" rope, not 5/8" rope right and the knife could easily slice paper after that and could still shave arm hair after 2000 cuts. HEre is just one of many witnesses there that day.

Mike Turber
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I still have the board here that we used to make those 2,771 cuts. I keep it for some reason but now I am glad I did. The cool thing to remember is that while we were cutting the rope we were also making HUGE cuts in the board. In fact we had to turn the board over. This means that not only did we cut through 2,771 peices of hemp rope but we also chopped the hell out of that board.

During the test I removed the blade from Jerry to look at the edge. It appeared to be that we were not removing any of the edge but we may in fact be polishing it! Seriously folks even though we cut the hell out of the board the knife stayed sharp, and razor sharp just past 2,000 cuts.

I am not sure what this prooves but it is damn impressive.

My head to head test will be done very soon. I really want as many people here as possible when I do this test so there will be no question as to the results. Of course someone will not like the results but that is tough ****.



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Click to expand...


So the big question is can anyone. So who in here has duplicated that test on video or in front of an audience? No one. Some can't even remember the model of Busse they tested. But there is not one video of proof from anyone in here except Busse. And most people are using 5/8" rope not 1" like busse used. 1" rope has 2.5 times the cross sectional area that 5/8" rope has. So for every 1 cut in 1" rope you are doing 2.5 cuts in 5/8" rope. That would put the equivalent cuts of 5/8" rope at 6,928 cuts. So although there is no doubt in my mind that there are many steels that will out last INFI in a cutting test, yeah, I am sure 3V is not one of them. But the proof is not up to me or Busse. The proof is up to someone else to do their own test with witnesses at a live show or filming the entire thing continuously on video to show that 3V will do better. IF there is and you have video proof please correct me? Or live witness performance please correct me. So here is the question, please provide physical witness or video proof of 3V doing anywhere near as many cuts.??
 
I will weight in. While I admit I am on the INFI koolaid. I have owned ESSE, Miller Bros. and Busse. As far as fixed blades go Busse seems to edge ou the competition. I have a lot of friends who will not spend the money, and run ESSE a very fine knife. When we are around the camp fire at night they will grab my NMFSH to process firewood as opposed to there junglas. The Miller Bros. M8 I owned was a beast. If I did not have a NMFSH already it would have made the backpack like the Junglas did before.

On a side note you never lose money on a Busse. Due to the secondary market, even if its a user there is always a buyer. I have tried to replace BUsse many times but thus far have not found a brand that stacks up. Sorry.......
 
Cobalt said:
This was just over 10 years ago. I had two nice custom 3V blades made. They were quite thick and Rc to 59. I chopped into wood like I always do, and yes, there was lots of knots and yes it was frieken cold, 15 degrees, and yes the edges took a severe pounding that put little chips in the edge. They were not dented, they were chipped. I had the knives repaired. The maker redid the edges and sent them back to me. He indicated that I should not have any more problems, but I did not want to try it so I got rid of them. They were beautiful.

As for custom makers getting more out of the steel, not sure about that. No reason why with the proper facilities a shop can't do as well or better since they have the money to do so.

Unfortunately, I do not have video of this way back then. But then again, no one in here seems to have any video or witnesses of anything they did except Busse. Busse had witnesses, knife makers and they did 2771 cuts of 1" rope, not 5/8" rope right and the knife could easily slice paper after that and could still shave arm hair after 2000 cuts. HEre is just one of many witnesses there that day.




So the big question is can anyone. So who in here has duplicated that test on video or in front of an audience? No one. Some can't even remember the model of Busse they tested. But there is not one video of proof from anyone in here except Busse. And most people are using 5/8" rope not 1" like busse used. 1" rope has 2.5 times the cross sectional area that 5/8" rope has. So for every 1 cut in 1" rope you are doing 2.5 cuts in 5/8" rope. That would put the equivalent cuts of 5/8" rope at 6,928 cuts. So although there is no doubt in my mind that there are many steels that will out last INFI in a cutting test, yeah, I am sure 3V is not one of them. But the proof is not up to me or Busse. The proof is up to someone else to do their own test with witnesses at a live show or filming the entire thing continuously on video to show that 3V will do better. IF there is and you have video proof please correct me? Or live witness performance please correct me. So here is the question, please provide physical witness or video proof of 3V doing anywhere near as many cuts.??
Click to expand...

Do you have the link to this video? I would like to see it. I didn't know it existed.
 
3V is a known quantity, we have Charpy and CATRA testing, we know the formula, a wide variety of makers use it, and it has been fairly well established that it holds an edge very well.

Despite the rope cutting demonstration there isn't nearly as much hard evidence for the capabilities of INFI. Being a skeptic I have serious doubts that any ingot steel is going to match 3V in both toughness and wear resistance, though I will happily accept evidence to the contrary. INFI certainly seems to be good stuff, but if it is significantly tougher and more wear resistant than 3V when both are at Rc 60 we're starting to talk about a steel that hits like S7 and wears better than S30V. That would be fantastic (and, if true I would buy a Busse almost immediately), but I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a bunch more evidence before accepting it.
 
I so wanted a busse / kin as I am leaning towards spending more money on a strong fixed blade... but no frigging way. After reading this and thinking about what I am likely to do with my knives...
I'm spending my money on a blue collar blade that gives me 4/5 of the performance at 1/4 of the price.
Bk9 will get my money. I'll sharpen it on a coffee cup and just be careful I don't use it to pry open locked car doors.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
3V is a known quantity, we have Charpy and CATRA testing, we know the formula, a wide variety of makers use it, and it has been fairly well established that it holds an edge very well.

Despite the rope cutting demonstration there isn't nearly as much hard evidence for the capabilities of INFI. Being a skeptic I have serious doubts that any ingot steel is going to match 3V in both toughness and wear resistance, though I will happily accept evidence to the contrary. INFI certainly seems to be good stuff, but if it is significantly tougher and more wear resistant than 3V when both are at Rc 60 we're starting to talk about a steel that hits like S7 and wears better than S30V. That would be fantastic (and, if true I would buy a Busse almost immediately), but I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a bunch more evidence before accepting it.
Click to expand...

3V is a known scientific quantity. Quite True. INFI is a known knife steel quantity. I am actually very skeptical that any powder metallurgy steel can really match rolled stock. I have never believed the cpm hype, sorry and I still don't. I buy cpm because that is most of what there is, but make no mistake I prefer not cpm to cpm steel. There is just something about compressing little grains of powder to the not yet molten state that just doesn't sit well with me. So see how my take is different.

But I would love to see hundreds of 3V superiority videos of 3V doing incredible stuff. Lord knows there is way to many videos of INFI doing crazy stuff. Bearcut, I am sure you have some 3V videos right? oh, Bearcut if you read my post I stated either witnessed publicly or video. Read it again.
 
Cobalt said:
INFI is a known knife steel quantity.
Click to expand...
With unknown toughness and sharpness values. Yeah, right.

Cobalt said:
But I would love to see hundreds of 3V superiority videos of 3V doing incredible stuff. Lord knows there is way to many videos of INFI doing crazy stuff. Bearcut, I am sure you have some 3V videos right? oh, Bearcut if you read my post I stated either witnessed publicly or video. Read it again.
Click to expand...

Do you insist that all charpy testing be publicly done also? All these videos mean nothing without standard testing applied to the steel. Keep beating the drum, but it only resonates with the fanboys in the echo chamber. Serious people want more reliable and independent testing.

By the way, what is this fixation with 3V? I've seen well hardened 1095 (and it's variants) and 5160 compare very favorably with INFI. It's not just 3V that you should be worried about.

I'd rather see 5 or 10 forumites decide to go out and independently test and then compare their results. That would be interesting. But unless you were there personally, I guess you wouldn't believe any of them, would you?
 
Guys, I just want to throw my 2¢ in... Infi and 3V seem very similar in hand. They strop much the same, on stones, they feel much the same, the edge feels and performs much the same. I can't tell you on abusing the edge, because I normally have other tools better at that task. When I first started using Infi, I immediately noticed it felt and performed like 3V. I LOVE my big Infi blades! I love my 3V blades!

-Will
 
I'm in agreement on owning and enjoying both and many more steels and knife designs. I'm very glad I don't have to get by on one knife. If I did it would be 3V or CPM Cruwear/PD#1/Z wear.

3V for fixed blades and Cruwear at higher hardness for folders. 3V has great toughness equal to Infi but better abrasive wear resistance for slicing due to the just right amount of Vanadium carbides. The powder steel process does make it easier to keep the grain smaller without doubt. Too high carbide fraction does make steels less tough just like too high carbon content. When 3V was developed from Cruwear/Vascowear they made it tougher by dropping the carbon content and kept wear resistance with the slightly higher amount of vanadium. The powder process helps as well and now we have a steel with almost the toughness of S7 yet excellent wear resistance greater than the less tough D2. That is a compromise I can live with. It can both shear like the Busse rope test and slice like the Ankerson standard rope test. Two of the 3 ways edges dull are both accounted for while the 8 percent chrome helps with free chrome for corrosion resistance ( same as Infi , both are 8% chrome steels) which is the 3rd way steel dulls.

Infi can keep from dulling from fracture and carbide tear out but doesn't have the vanadium carbides to keep up in that kind of slicing in abrasive materials. It's no slouch though. Not what I'm saying.

An old thread re: Toughness Thanks Bushman!

Toughness - Expansion on Charpy C-Notch Values

Okay guys, for everyone who always asks about toughness, I was doing some searching today and found this thread from 2003 that details some research this user did on Charpy numbers of a number of tool steels. As soon as I saw it, I was amazed it wasn't made a sticky back then, and so instead of doing the whole resurrection thing, I figured I would add some numbers from some other threads I'd happened across and beef the list up a little. I hope this helps someone!

Note: All of these numbers come from this forum, from various threads I've found. I can't verify these since I have no access to a Charpy machine at present.

Tool Steels:

Steel-----Hardness-----Charpy C Ft. Lbs.

CPM-15V......@Rc60..........10
CPM-10V......@Rc60..........20
CPM-3V.......@Rc58..........85
CPM-3V.......@Rc60..........60
CPM-3V.......@Rc62..........40
CPM-4V.......@Rc60..........50
CPM-4V.......@Rc62..........36
CPM-M4.......@Rc65.5.......20
CPM-M4.......@Rc63.5.......28
CPM-M4.......@Rc62.........32
CPM-M48......@Rc64.........16
CPM-T15......@Rc65.........20
M2..............@Rc62.........20
D2..............@Rc60.........20
A2..............@Rc60.........40
S7..............@Rc58........120
S7..............@Rc57........125
L6..............@Rc60.........40
O1..............@Rc60........30
H13.............@Rc47.......125
A11.............@Rc61........20
Z-Wear PM.......@Rc60......65
Vanadis 4.......@Rc60........50

Stainless:

Steel-------Hardness-----Charpy C Ft. Lbs.
CPM-S90V......@Rc56..........20
CPM-S90V.....@Rc58...........19
CPM-S60V.....@Rc56...........16
CPM-S30V.....@Rc58...........28
CPM-S35VN....@58Rc...........32
CPM-154......@60Rc............30
154CM..........@Rc58...........28
440C............@Rc56...........26
440C............@Rc58...........16
420HC...........@Rc58...........24
M390............@Rc60...........22
Click to expand...
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1067237-Toughness-Expansion-on-Charpy-C-Notch-Values
 
Well, well... Batons cabbage like a son of a gun! Take that other steels!!! Lol









Cuts bacon too:



Bacon! So, there. :thumbup:
 
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