Brands comparable to busse

bearcut said:
Jerry Hossom said this information was given to him directly from Crucible. He mentioned this on another forum several years ago.
I have no reason to doubt his claim. I also have no reason to doubt that Crucible knows everything there is to know about infi.

As to where busse buys their steel, I have no idea.
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Cool, post a link to the thread. I want to see where Hossom said this.
 
I think people just want to see how INFI fare against steel like CPM-3V head to head live at front of the audience... The duplicate test just sound super boring doesn't it? I don't think even the next 10 years from now any manufacturing will coming up to challenge that...

Side by side testing with third party as judges, no matter what the result, it would be real fun and get many respect from the crowd!!



Finally I like and respected the way Jerry Busse reposed to this thread... I going to buy more Busse for sure.
 
To all who appreciated Jerry Busse's responses - I agree 100%. This thread has gotten very contentious and out of hand, and the man himself comes on here cool, collected, and classy. Same as always. I'd expect nothing less from the Bossman. :thumbup:
 
Jerry is a cool guy indeed. I don't think people are out of hand though. People seem to be getting along fine.

Joe
 
dingy said:
i remember Jerry Hossom have been saying this :

http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/413813/
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Here is the conversation

Dalko
Journeyman KnifeNut!
*
06-08-04 00:29.56 - Post#413854

In response to Jerry Hossom

I search a lot about INFI and I can confirm you that this is not A8 at all. Its wear resistance is too high to be A8 as A8 has a very low wear resistance, actually lower than A2 because of the higher toughness (this is the trade off).

Here is the chemical composition of INFI:
Carbon (C): 0.5%
Chromium (Cr): 8.25 - 8.75%
Molybdenum (Mo): 1.30%
Nickel (Ni): 0.74%
Cobalt (Co): 0.95 - 1.0%
Vanadium (V): 0.36%
Nitrogen (N): 0.11%
Iron (Fe): Balance

That chemical make up was discovered by a Busse owner as he conducted a spectrometral analysis. Actually, the analysis couldn't detect the Nitrogen and Jerry Busse initiated a contest and give a knife to the one who could name the missed element and it was won by Rob Simonich himself. I guess if Mr. Simonich knew INFI contians Nitrogen, it is because this is well known that INFI is not A8. A8 doesn't have as much alloy in it as INFI and certainly doesn't have Nitrogen.
I would be very curious where you got the information that INFI was A8.
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and here is Hossoms response:

Jerry Hossom
Master Member KnifeNut!
*
06-08-04 01:10.25 - Post#413863

In response to Dalko

I should have stated "A8 Modified". I got the info from a steel company.
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His response was as insightful as a fart. There has never been a Mod A8 with INFI's composition. Plain and simple. I have seen a few different formulas for Mod A8, but not one has ever had a hint of Cobalt or Nitrogen or Nickel for that matter. Maybe Hossom should produce who told him that dribble, huh. That is pretty much like saying that all stainless steels with 16% chrome are the same.

In fact, that thread is full of suspicious Hossonisms, like the 3V knife that was bent multiple times to 90 degrees, lol. What a lie. yet no one challenges him on totally BS lies
 
Have you compared A8(mod) and Infi on the Z knives site of Gator 97? ( or Latrobe specialty steels. They removed it from the main list but still have the PDF archived) I can see where people get it from. There are two different compositions from customers tests of Infi noted and one isn't that close and one is close enough to be A8(mod) Z knives has both compositions listed. Graph the two steels and it's obvious where people get the A8(mod) thing from.

Personally I have no way of knowing if the analysis of Infi were accurate and I don't know for sure what the truth is but Jerry Hossom isn't the only one to say it in all fairness and if it's not A8(mod) , I don't care to be honest. I don't care one way or another because whatever anyone calls it the performance is great. I like it. Jerry Busse isn't making any exaggerated claims in the paragraph he just posted and calls it correctly. A balance of attributes. A8(mod) is an excellent steel with great attributes for knives just like Infi is, and lots of other steels. Calling it A8(mod) wouldn't be an insult performance wise..

The only other ones that are not happy are the ones that insist it has to be the best at everything. Even Jerry Busse doesn't say it is except at being the best compromise performer. For him and many others it is. For me and many others it isn't.

No one is wrong. Everyone who has a preference is right. How could it be otherwise?

Joe
 
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The Mastiff said:
Have you compared A8(mod) and Infi on the Z knives site of Gator 97? I can see where people get it from. There are two different compositions from customers tests of Infi noted and one isn't that close and one is close enough to be A8(mod) Z knives has both compositions listed. Graph the two steels and it's obvious where people get the A8(mod) thing from.

Personally I have no way of knowing if the analysis of Infi were accurate and I don't know for sure what the truth is but Jerry Hossom isn't the only one to say it in all fairness and if it's not A8(mod) , I don't care to be honest. I don't care one way or another because whatever anyone calls it the performance is great. I like it. Jerry Busse isn't making any exaggerated claims in the paragraph he just posted and calls it correctly. A balance of attributes. A8(mod) is an excellent steel with great attributes for knives just like Infi is, and lots of other steels. Calling it A8(mod) wouldn't be an insult performance wise..

The only other ones that are not happy are the ones that insist it has to be the best at everything. Even Jerry Busse doesn't say it is except at being the best compromise performer. For him and many others it is. For me and many others it isn't.

No one is wrong. Everyone who has a preference is right. How could it be otherwise?

Joe
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This was discussed at length on the Busse forum threads that you can find. The newer formula for INFI is closer to Mod A8 but they are still not the same. I did provide my own results for the test as well and they matched someone elses findings on newer INFI. But that thread mentioned above was talking about the old INFI formula not the new one. Lets be clear on that. Cpm S30V equal in toughness to A2? Really? another Hossonism.
 
This thread needs some pics....Go Gators!!

20150307_201212_zpskoq4d0pz.jpg


20150307_201349_zpswmazy478.jpg
 
Thanks Cobalt. S30V isn't going to be as tough as A2 unless someone really messes up the heat treat. I'll go read that thread.

I am strictly talking about the numbers in Z knives list. Those are close enough to be the same steel but I have no idea how accurate they are. He calls them Infi 1st. version and Infi 2nd. or something similar. The second one is the one I am talking about matching Latrobes numbers for Chipper Steel. I question how there are such different numbers for Infi's composition though. They don't resemble each other.

I'm gonna drop this subject now and keep to myself out of respect to Jerry and the work he has done. I don't consider it my place to act like an expert on something I don't know about either so I'll move on from this subject.

Joe
 
The Mastiff said:
Thanks Cobalt. S30V isn't going to be as tough as A2 unless someone really messes up the heat treat. I'll go read that thread.

I am strictly talking about the numbers in Z knives list. Those are close enough to be the same steel but I have no idea how accurate they are. He calls them Infi 1st. version and Infi 2nd. or something similar. The second one is the one I am talking about matching Latrobes numbers for Chipper Steel. I question how there are such different numbers for Infi's composition though. They don't resemble each other.

I'm gonna drop this subject now and keep to myself out of respect to Jerry and the work he has done. I don't consider it my place to act like an expert on something I don't know about either so I'll move on from this subject.

Joe
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I would agree with you and noticed that myself. I remember the only guy using Mod A8 in the 90's was Johanning and his knives were doing some amazing stuff. The numbers are very close. I will find that thread for you. Also, I did my own analysis and I came up with some numbers but can't remember now what they are, but I posted them in that thread.

ahh here it is:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1303390-INFI-is-tough-steel?highlight=infi
 
When I tested my FBM LE that I purchased new in 2003-4 I also tested my old 1998 SHBM. That particular SHBM I had already tested 10 years earlier so I knew it was exactly what the original findings for INFI were. I did it to test that business equipment. If they gave me some crazy report on the old knife I would know there was something wrong with their equipment. But they did not and it was indeed accurate, with two exceptions, Nitrogen and Carbon. For some reason the test I did did not show either. I know that my old blade had both from the test done 10 years earlier. So not sure why those elements did not show up on the new test. I cannot confirm that new INFI has nitrogen like the old INFI did. But the carbon content should be in the 0.5-0.6 zone. Here is the test sheet showing the tests I did. The FBM was tested three times and the SHBM twice.

20151011_091806.jpg


Based on this test, it seems like there is no nickel, or cobalt, but everything else is there(who knows if nitrogen is there). So I wonder if this new formula is actually the old Modified INFI formula used in the original Basics. Only Busse would know, but I remember Mike Turber stating that the difference was a lack of Cobalt in M INFI. Who knows. So there has been two INFI formulas since the beginning and it is safe to assume that one was retained maybe?

In any case it is just history now. The difference in overall performance between INFI and M INFI was so low that I can see why they would just consolidate into one type.
 
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The Mastiff said:
Hello Gator. I'm not saying Infi is A8(mod).
...
Looking at the analysis ( Infi, second style) in your website if I got that for the lab analysis for A8(mod) on an order I'd be satisfied. I've seen specs vary a lot more than that.
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I'm not saying that either. Spec, as in a standard spec defines certain ranges, and the specific alloy batch falls within those specs or it doesn't. Otherwise, I don't think there's a reason for having specs at all:)
 
bearcut said:
Crucible steel said that they had analyzed "INFI" steel many years ago.
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If you are referring to the KF thread, then Mr. Hossom said "steel company told me" which is very different from "Crucible said".

bearcut said:
They determined that it was A8 Modified.
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Assuming the latest version of INFI was compared to A8Mod, they are close but strictly speaking(which is why we have standard specs) they are not the same.

In your first post I replied to you said:
bearcut said:
They said they won't produce it. They buy theirs from China.
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And in the next one you said:
bearcut said:
As to where busse buys their steel, I have no idea.
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So, which one is it, you have no idea or you know they buy it form China?

bearcut said:
They were very forthright with their composition analysis.
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Who are they in this case? Crucible? What composition analysis? Of INFI? Did they publish it? I didn't see that in the thread you refer to. The two compositions floating around, were not form Crucible.
 
Jerry Busse said:
The Busse “LIVE” performance challenge

I call on the "personalities" in this thread to cool down a bit and have a beer. :thumbup:
Let's Drink! :thumbup:

Jerry :D
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You're doing a great job of ducking the serious questions and turning this into a personality contest. But the question remains, do you have industry standard testing data on INFI by an independent third party?

I realize that I'm probably wasting my time with you, but since BF doesn't (as a rule) delete threads, it will be nice to have this thread to refer to when this continues to come up.
 
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