Brands comparable to busse

[Ankerson]

I know exactly where you were coming from. By the way I have burned my fair share of lathe cutting bits. The reason why bits are small and not part of the lathe is because you burn them up quick. Same goes for saw blades. By the way I mentioned 4140 and you must have missed the point of 4140. That steel is used in places where you cannot afford failure, like a crankshaft. So you see, maybe you did not get my point since I was speaking in your terms. You would not use a tin can metal for a crankshaft would you?

I didn't miss it, it's just not relevant to the whole point I was getting at.


Apples and bricks comparison.

 

[Cobalt]

I didn't miss it, it's just not relevant to the whole point I was getting at.


Apples and bricks comparison.

I guess your point was lost completely then. And the terrible thing is I have a back ground in mechanical engineering. lol.

But back to the real topic. Cutting 2000+ pieces of rope to test is not something I would ever want to do, nor do I have the time to do it. The only ones who would do this are knifemakers to prove their point.

 

[Cobalt]

who would ever cut rope or do dumb tests?

[video=youtube;4eu5SqCrYPc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eu5SqCrYPc[/video]

 

[Ankerson]

I guess your point was lost completely then. And the terrible thing is I have a back ground in mechanical engineering. lol.

Yeah I think it was selective.

The point is that in manufacturing/fabrication and other assorted industrial applications that require a lot of cutting of materials in a production setting the proper steels have to be selected for the cutters etc. to provide as little down time as possible.

To be short they aren't using low alloy, low wear resistant steels in applications that require a lot of wear resistance.

Same goes for high wear parts.

Something that is completely the opposite that some would love to have people believe for various reasons.

In other words if what certain people are trying to tell people was true then there would be no need for anything other than very low alloy steels.

We could forget about carbides, ceramics, diamonds, CBN, high alloy steels etc. because those low alloy steels are just magical and able to perform miracles ......

Some of us know this is just complete and utter BS and it really is complete BS.


Starting to get the idea now?

The steels have to fit the intended use or there will be failures, extended downtime, loss of money etc.

That's why there are different steels for different types of uses.

 

[Ankerson]

who would ever cut rope or do dumb tests?

[video=youtube;4eu5SqCrYPc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eu5SqCrYPc[/video]

Not all that much into shearing types of tests for knife blades personally, never really have been.

Fine for marketing and such, but once the knives start getting used in real life cutting stuff those marketing results don't tend to live up to the marketing.

That's unless people like to push cut with extreme amounts of downforce that takes two hands and something like 150# or more of pressure to cut stuff.

Personally I would rather not, but I am sure some would I suppose.

 

[AntDog]

So push cutting that much rope is not impressive? I'm sure you've sawed through more rope, but? Sheesh.

 

[adams-usmc]

I'll keep buying Busse Knives until I find one that outperforms them. I've been through a lot of different knives. I've liked nearly all of them, because I just freakin like knives. But they're no Busse. It's just not even close.

I don't know how else to say it. When taking all factors into account (wear resistance, toughness, sharpening, corrosion resistance, fit and finish, warranty, customer care, and resale value) they simply have no equal that I'm aware of.

I enjoy my other knives, sure, but they'll be heading out the door long before my INFI does.

Cheers.

 

[metal0321]

I'll keep buying Busse Knives until I find one that outperforms them. I've been through a lot of different knives. I've liked nearly all of them, because I just freakin like knives. But they're no Busse. It's just not even close.

I don't know how else to say it. When taking all factors into account (wear resistance, toughness, sharpening, corrosion resistance, fit and finish, warranty, customer care, and resale value) they simply have no equal that I'm aware of.

I enjoy my other knives, sure, but they'll be heading out the door long before my INFI does.

Cheers.

....and in comes someone telling you that there are knives that you haven't been through, and knives that Busse's can't even come close to....and you better believe it!

I feel the same way. I've got minions of high end knives. I'm stuck on INFI and SR101, SR101 being my preference for its edge retention.

 

[Cobalt]

Yeah I think it was selective.

The point is that in manufacturing/fabrication and other assorted industrial applications that require a lot of cutting of materials in a production setting the proper steels have to be selected for the cutters etc. to provide as little down time as possible.

To be short they aren't using low alloy, low wear resistant steels in applications that require a lot of wear resistance.

Same goes for high wear parts.

Something that is completely the opposite that some would love to have people believe for various reasons.

In other words if what certain people are trying to tell people was true then there would be no need for anything other than very low alloy steels.

We could forget about carbides, ceramics, diamonds, CBN, high alloy steels etc. because those low alloy steels are just magical and able to perform miracles ......

Some of us know this is just complete and utter BS and it really is complete BS.


Starting to get the idea now?

The steels have to fit the intended use or there will be failures, extended downtime, loss of money etc.

That's why there are different steels for different types of uses.

Everything you have stated is true in the industries for which steels are used. It is also the obvious and probably why it was lost on me. I did not realize that you were trying to state the obvious reasons why there are literally thousands of different steel specs in the world.

Yes, there is no perfect steel that can be used across numerous industries. However, in the Knife industry you can get pretty darn close to having a steel that does most anything you want it to do with the proper heat treat. But it is all a trade off. I would love to have a steel that is as tough as INFI, holds an edge better than anything out there today and never rusts. It does not exist. So I try to pick what I feel is the best compromise of all properties. To me Steels like INFI and 3V come the closest to that. If someone made knives from Mod A8 today I might own those as well. Which is truly the subject of this thread. If you don't own Busse what other brand or knives would you own.

 

[Ankerson]

Everything you have stated is true in the industries for which steels are used. It is also the obvious and probably why it was lost on me. I did not realize that you were trying to state the obvious reasons why there are literally thousands of different steel specs in the world.

Yes, there is no perfect steel that can be used across numerous industries. However, in the Knife industry you can get pretty darn close to having a steel that does most anything you want it to do with the proper heat treat. But it is all a trade off. I would love to have a steel that is as tough as INFI, holds an edge better than anything out there today and never rusts. It does not exist. So I try to pick what I feel is the best compromise of all properties. To me Steels like INFI and 3V come the closest to that. If someone made knives from Mod A8 today I might own those as well. Which is truly the subject of this thread. If you don't own Busse what other brand or knives would you own.

Obvious to some people, not so much to others to hear them talk and or post.

And the reason why I look at most people with a blank stare when they start talking, then walk away shaking my head.

Especially once you start looking at what some grades are actually used for in the industrial setting and at the same time have someone telling people that another very low alloy grade is better at doing what the higher alloy grade is actually used for in industry. In truth if that lower alloy grade was actually better the industry would be using it in place of the other grade........ They aren't.....

That's when I start getting pissed because I know those people are FOS and generating gross false information for various reasons.

The sad part is that some people actually believe what they are saying.

 

[Ken44]

*sigh*

 

[shqxk]

Since when the higher alloy means a better steel for given application?

Give me a high alloy steel that can be made to a better leaf spring than 5160?
Give me a steel that suit for razor better than AEB-L?
Give me a steel that has a strength to toughness ratio better than L6 bainite?
Go search that how many time it has been proven that steel like W2 are far better than any high alloy powdered steel on wood chisel working...

We are talking about knife right? and I sure higher alloy is never mean to be a better blade steel...

Too much false information have been spread on this forum...

It sad that many people here thought that edge retention or steel quality are judge from the the alloy content or the HRC hardness...

 

[Ankerson]

Since when the higher alloy means a better steel for given application?

Give me a high alloy steel that can be made to a better leaf spring than 5160?
Give me a steel that suit for razor better than AEB-L?
Give me a steel that has a strength to toughness ratio better than L6 bainite?
Go search that how many time it has been proven that steel like W2 are far better than any high alloy powdered steel on wood chisel working...

We are talking about knife right? and I sure higher alloy is never mean to be a better blade steel...

Too much false information has been spread on this forum...

It sad that many people here thought that edge retention or steel quality are judge from the the alloy content or the HRC hardness...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And there are those who just haven't actually read the thread.

That or just don't understand what was being talked about.

 

[craytab]

*sigh*

No worries. Gratuitous knife pic!

 

[The Mastiff]

Nice knives Craytab.

Joe

 

[Gator97]

Since when the higher alloy means a better steel for given application?

Since the times when a "given application" can benefit from the high alloy steels? Do you mean high alloy steels are no good for ANY application as far as the knives are concerned?

Give me a high alloy steel that can be made to a better leaf spring than 5160?

Leaf spring isn't a knife?

Give me a steel that suit for razor better than AEB-L?

AEB-L is a high alloy steel. And specifically for the razors I'd take any fine grained steel capable of higher hardness, as far as the shaving with razors are concerned, it is push cutting with the edge as thin as possible. So, 1095, Aogami/Shirogami series, all will do better at 64-65 HRC.

Go search that how many time it has been proven that steel like W2 are far better than any high alloy powdered steel on wood chisel working...

? Again non knife use. I am not sure I understand how does non knife exaples prove your initial statement that high alloy steels are not really good at all?

We are talking about knife right? and I sure higher alloy is never mean to be a better blade steel...

Based on what? There's plenty of empirical evidence from number of members of this forum that says otherwise.

It sad that many people here thought that edge retention or steel quality are judge from the the alloy content or the HRC hardness...

Alloy content is a primary variable defining the rest. As in, HT protocols are defined by alloy content. You can't just grab any steel and declare oil hardening is the best can you? HRC defines the strength of the edge, and it is a measurable value. No amount of magic will make 50HRC edge perform well by today's standards. Not sure why anyone wants to be dismissive of very simple facts.

 

[adams-usmc]

Craytab, how do you like the ZT-0100? I've always thought it looked like a super comfy and useful design. How would you personally compare it to your RMD?

 

[metal0321]

Craytab, how do you like the ZT-0100? I've always thought it looked like a super comfy and useful design. How would you personally compare it to your RMD?

I've wondered the same thing. Always liked that knife.
As for the OP....that's an alternative. ZT 3V, nice finish, and can probably do anything a comparable Busse could do. I don't know what kind of batches they are HT'd in. I do think 3V is like a steak. You have to know how to "grill" it to bring out the best in it. This is the case with any steel but particularly the higher alloys.

 

[shqxk]

Since the times when a "given application" can benefit from the high alloy steels? Do you mean high alloy steels are no good for ANY application as far as the knives are concerned?


Leaf spring isn't a knife?


AEB-L is a high alloy steel. And specifically for the razors I'd take any fine grained steel capable of higher hardness, as far as the shaving with razors are concerned, it is push cutting with the edge as thin as possible. So, 1095, Aogami/Shirogami series, all will do better at 64-65 HRC.


? Again non knife use. I am not sure I understand how does non knife exaples prove your initial statement that high alloy steels are not really good at all?


Based on what? There's plenty of empirical evidence from number of members of this forum that says otherwise.


Alloy content is a primary variable defining the rest. As in, HT protocols are defined by alloy content. You can't just grab any steel and declare oil hardening is the best can you? HRC defines the strength of the edge, and it is a measurable value. No amount of magic will make 50HRC edge perform well by today's standards. Not sure why anyone wants to be dismissive of very simple facts.

Neither leaf spring steel, AEB-L nor W2 are considered as high alloy among knife-makes my friend... No need to be quibble... it's not hard to know what I mean.

All things I mentioned are just the feature for each steel which also relate to their characteristic why it great to be used as knife blade.

Leaf spring steel is very tough and has capability to be tempered to very flexibility yet strong structure...

W2 has extraordinary high edge stability that why it make better chisel than most high alloy/carbide steel.

AEBL has ultra fine grain and can be taken to high hardness. It is much better suit for razor because it has some rust resistance... I doubt you will ever tell different on using or sharpening well treated 52100 against well heat treat AEB-L... but anyone can separated them in 10 minutes after the use but without proper cleaning..

I think most people know alloy content is the most importance aspect of steel... may be I choose to wrong word.
I mean the higher alloy are not always mean to be better steel for given task.

For example, you can't say that 3V is absolutely a better steel than 1080... 3V might be considered as better steel for most people but it not entirely better... 1080 will take sharper edge, much easier to sharpen and can be differential heat treat while 3V won't...

So it not really just a matter of alloy content and final HRC in order to be a better steel... It depend on what is your goal.

There's plenty of empirical evidence from number of members of this forum that says otherwise.

What is your empirical evidence? I have seen too many time simple alloy outperform the higher one...

 

[Gator97]

Neither leaf spring steel, AEB-L nor W2 are considered as high alloy among knife-makes my friend...

According to the definition, low alloy steel can not contains more than 7% total alloying elements, while AEB-L contains over 13% Chromium alone. Since you said higher alloy, that definitely qualifies AEB-L as higher alloy compared to Low alloy.

Leaf spring steel is very tough and has capability to be tempered to very flexibility yet strong structure...

There are way too many leaf steels to make a generic statement for knives. Some of those won't even be hardened to acceptable levels.

W2 has extraordinary high edge stability that why it make better chisel than most high alloy/carbide steel.

Here we go again... And chisels are relevant to knife discussion why exactly? Was arguing for making chisels out of CPM 10V?

AEBL has ultra fine grain and can be taken to high hardness.

Which you said wasn't important? I've never seen anyone taking AEB-L above 62 HRC, even that is very rare, mostly 60-61, and it IS dictated by its composition which you also dismiss as a factor determining performance, and for that matter fine grain also comes from the composition, HT alone won't refine grain beyond what composition allows.

I doubt you will ever tell different on using or sharpening well treated 52100 against well heat treat AEB-L...

I sure can tell the difference between 62 and 64HRC.

I mean the higher alloy are not always mean to be better steel for given task.

That is true, but I am not sure anyone argued otherwise. Based on your post it did sound like you argue the opposite that low alloy steels always outperform high alloy ones, and to top that off disregarded both composition and hardness.

So it not really just a matter of alloy content and final HRC in order to be a better steel... It depend on what is your goal.

That's very different from your original post, frankly I am not really sure what exactly are you arguing after 2 posts. That different alloys work better for different tasks? Nobody was saying otherwise.
High alloy doesn't automatically mean better choice for any task, just like low alloy doesn't mean best alloy for any task.

What is your empirical evidence? I have seen too many time simple alloy outperform the higher one...

My own testing and feedback form other forumites and the rest of the feedback I can find on the net. I suspect it is exactly the same as yours if you do your testing.