Bring back Cliff

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I'm a new member, but I did lurk off and on for a fair while before joining...

In my limited experience, I could see that Cliff was troublesome. He had technical knowledge (to what extent? how relevent? debatable) but was also arrogant and superior, and to make it worse was also abrasive and at-times beligerent, yet evasive, inconsistent and selectively "deaf" when challenged. A real charmer.

Yet noone and nothing is perfect, you have to take the bad with the good, and you also (if you're particpating in, or, running a community) have to set and live by rules. Seems the mods judged CS's contributions were worth putting up with his charm, so long as he lived by the rules like everyone else. Stepping over the line, breaking the rules *everyone* lives by, insulting the forum and the owner... no his contribution was not special enough to overlook that.

I think that's how it worked out. Oldtimers agree?
 
i joined in april of this year. it didnt take me long to realize cliff was full of it and himself.
i often wondered why someone like him was still allowed to be here after reading some of his posts. i for one am glad to see him gone and dont care to see him come back. there are "knifemakers" here who can provide just as good if not better information because like str said, they get their hands dirty actually making knives and working with the steel, not destroying what was made with the steel or knocking the knifemaker. he seemed to avoid answering questions that would make him look more like a fool than he already was. he has done it when i asked him questions by asking me questions that had nothing to do with the subject at hand. cliff's gone, leave it at that.
 
kycolonel said:
Instead of going back through his 17,000 + posts, can someone tell me if
there was a steel and/or maker that Cliff did approve of ?
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Stiff Clump likes 420HC, AUS-4A and 1095. Not that they are BAD, but IMHO there are lots of better steels. ;)


Cliff Stamp said:
However if you want high wear resistance, then just get a D2 blade from Tom Krein and have it ground very thin at the edge and it will slice aggressively for a very long time. If however you want a fine push cutting edge then most of the new super steels are not well suited and you want much simpler alloys like 1095, 420HC, and AEB-L. The hardness is very important especially with the low carbide steels. Commonly most are leaving these very underhardened which is why steels like AUS-4A have a horrible reputation as knife steels even though metallurgists like John Verhoven will advocate them as ideal for knife makers.

-Cliff
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I haven't read a Cliff post since probably 2001. The only reason I read one back then is that someone on Chat would bring up something that idiot had posted. Cliff was an IQ Test, if you read and believed what he wrote...you failed.

I never claimed to know a lot about knife testing and steel, but it didn't take me long to figure out that though Cliff may know more than I did, he knew less than the makers of the knives he was putting down.

You wouldn't really know Ciff until you had exchanged some emails with him like I did. You've heard, "Don't argue with crazy people...." trust me on this CS is out of his friggin' mind.

I don't think we can ever get back the people CS drove away, but we are a better place now that he's gone.

Good riddance.
 
Stryker D said:
Being new also, with a limited amount of posts, I am not a good judge of Cliff or yourself; but this sounds like something Cliff would say.
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Stryker D, my words speak for themselves. I think it was pretty presumptuous for someone (tomcrx) with such a limited history here at Bladeforums to request the reinstatement of Cliff Stamp. I did not insult tomcrx, nor did I make nasty insinuations about his character or his livelihood (unlike your post, which insinuates that I am no better than Cliff).

What I did was point out the obvious. He is not a good judge in this case because he doesn't know the history--unless he's spent the past couple of months reading all of Cliff's past posts. tomcrx himself admits:

tomcrx said:
I just do not have the history with CS that a lot of members do.
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Stryker D, if you can't handle the truth, then by all means put me on ignore, or just skip my posts. But please don't compare my posts to Cliff's.
 
Cliff was here at the beginning and was a Mod for the Knife Reviews & Testing forum. The way he treated people got him removed from that position, but he never stopped treating people in a disrespectful manner. That's just the way Cliff was. Unforunately, that drove dozens of knowledgeable members away and did damage to Bladeforums. His input to this forum does not replace all that has been lost because of him. In fact, it doesn't even come close.

Cliff does know a lot, but not nearly as much as he thinks he does.
 
Guyon said:
Stryker D, my words speak for themselves. I think it was pretty presumptuous for someone (tomcrx) with such a limited history here at Bladeforums to request the reinstatement of Cliff Stamp. I did not insult tomcrx, nor did I make nasty insinuations about his character or his livelihood (unlike your post, which insinuates that I am no better than Cliff).

What I did was point out the obvious. He is not a good judge in this case because he doesn't know the history--unless he's spent the past couple of months reading all of Cliff's past posts. tomcrx himself admits:



Stryker D, if you can't handle the truth, then by all means put me on ignore, or just skip my posts. But please don't compare my posts to Cliff's.
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You are correct Guyon,
I based my comments on very little history.
I did not mean to insult your character nor your livelihood.
Please accept my apology.
 
I personally believe Cliff ultimately caused more harm than good. Some of his thoughts and test were useful, some were not. He did get me to think differently about how knives are used and what constitutes a "good" knife. But I have never used a knife to smash through a cinder block and God-willing never will.

As I said, I believe ultimately that Cliff caused more harm than good. He dirtied outstanding reputations that took years of hardwork to establish and directed potential buyers (myself included) AWAY from knife makers that I have since found to be amazing artists creating useful and beautiful tools.

I have respect for the staff at Blade Forums (Sparks especially) for putting up with his duff for so long because they were following their own rules. He went too far and I asked that he stays away. We will have a better forum where experts and novices are encouraged to share thoughts, new ideas, and experiences.

Thank you Sparks
 
zenheretic said:
Lots of forums here; took me forever to find the Pirate's Cove.
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You should be banned for breaking the rules of PC.

1. There is no PC.

2. Read rule 1.

;)
 
I have been hanging around this forum since 1999. I visit it almost everyday, even though I don't post much.

Spark is a good guy and what Cliff said was way out of line. I showed my support by purchasing a membership.

Now maybe more knifemakers will share their knowledge and experience without fearing someone starting a frustrating arguement.

If a particular knife or steel doesn't work for you, it can be stated without personal attacks and/or insults. If a particular knife or steel works really well for you, I definitely want to hear about it.

Have a nice day. Thanks, Melvin
 
Random04 said:
I personally believe Cliff ultimately caused more harm than good. Some of his thoughts and test were useful, some were not. He did get me to think differently about how knives are used and what constitutes a "good" knife. But I have never used a knife to smash through a cinder block and God-willing never will.

As I said, I believe ultimately that Cliff caused more harm than good. He dirtied outstanding reputations that took years of hardwork to establish and directed potential buyers (myself included) AWAY from knife makers that I have since found to be amazing artists creating useful and beautiful tools.

I have respect for the staff at Blade Forums (Sparks especially) for putting up with his duff for so long because they were following their own rules. He went too far and I asked that he stays away. We will have a better forum where experts and novices are encouraged to share thoughts, new ideas, and experiences.

Thank you Sparks
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Very well said with an excellent grasp of the whole situation.
 
STR said:
If I were new and wanted to learn about knives, or about how to make better ones I would focus on other makers and people getting their hands dirty doing what I want to do not those sitting in an arm chair doing nothing but reading and then feeling they have a grasp greater than those that do it everyday. Cliff would not hesitate to tell experts at Sandvik steel how to properly heat treat their steel for crying out loud! Sandvik!

He tried to school Chris Reeve among many other known experts in things that were so far out of line for a man in his position that its beyond ridiculous in my opinion to even take him seriously!
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STR, although I see your point, generally speaking you are wrong. The fact that someone does something for a living does NOT guarantee he is (always) right or that what he does can't be improved.
And if there weren't people doubting "everybody knows it's like that because THIS MAN says so" there wouldn't be any progress at all.

Of course, then there is the question on how to present one's opinion and how to hold a discussion.



Isaac Asimov said:
Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
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I am glad that he is gone. I have been subjected to his inane discourse :yawn::yawn::jerkit:from long, long ago--way back to rec.knives and knifeforums before bladeforums.

I am doing the "happy" dance! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 
I'm glad Spark isn't backpedalling on this.
Keep him banned.
You can see the positive results already in the D2 thread.
 
Ken C. said:
You should be banned for breaking the rules of PC.

1. There is no PC.
2. Read rule 1.

;)
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Well that depends on what your definition of is is...

billclintonmu2.jpg
 
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