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Buy a STRIDER knife...NOT ME!
- Thread starter SKTRGNLDR
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Thanks Ben,
Let's agree to disagree. In all sarcasm, there is at least a thread of truth. It was stated as sarcasm but, I do feel based on Mick's e-mail that I am glad there aren't many hot heads like him in our military. I hope I make myself clear. I don't expect you to agree with me but that is <B>my</B> opinion.
Have a GREAT Thanksgiving!
John
Let's agree to disagree. In all sarcasm, there is at least a thread of truth. It was stated as sarcasm but, I do feel based on Mick's e-mail that I am glad there aren't many hot heads like him in our military. I hope I make myself clear. I don't expect you to agree with me but that is <B>my</B> opinion.
Have a GREAT Thanksgiving!
John
CRAP! I just lost my entire post! I hae it when that happens. Here goes again...
Ketsugo:
if you search this thread you will not see an apology from Mick. That is beside my point. What I argued for is that what you said was not "just an opinion", and it was not the same thing Mick did. An opinion would be to say "Mick was wrong to tell SKTRGNLDR to F off." An argument would be to say "Mick was wrong to tell SKTRGNLDR to F off, and here's why..." The ... is where premises are given which are meant to support the conclustion that, in thi shypothetical example, Mick was wrong to tell SKTRGNLDR to F off.
You think Mick was wrong. That is fine. To respond in kind to Mick would be to tell him to F off, from your perspective. Instead you insinuate that Mick has such a bad attitude that he probably got a DISHONORABLE DISCHARGE from the militaty as a result of it, as evidenced by Mick's e-mail response. You address this claim in your last post, saying, "Please don't misquote me! I stated Wonder if he received a dishonorable discharge?!? BIG difference. IMO."
What you have offered is not an opinion, but an insult. The concept of conversational implicature shows that your correct quote still is an insult. To say that you wonder if mick received an honorable diischarge is to imply that Mick's attitude is so bad, it is likely the reason that Mick is no longer in the military. Furthermore, the reason that Mick is no longer in the military is that he was dishonorably discharged. Conversational implicature is akin to talk of the letter of the law and the spitit of the law. You weren't really wondering if Mick was dishonorably discharged. Given the context of this entire thread, you brought up "dishonorable discharge" to insult Mick, not because you were wondering about a fact of the world. Even IF you were JUST WONDERING, given the context of this thread you still should not have posted your statement.
Think of it this way. Suppose we were discussing physics. There is a debate in mysics about Einsteinian Relativity and Quantum mechanics. Both theories have been experimentally verified to great degrees and impact our lives daily. But the problem is that the two theories seem to contradict each other. That is enough backroung for my point, as this is not physicsforums.com! So, suppose you were arguing that Relativity will win the day in this dispute. Now, in response, suppose I said, "Yeah, but Relativity isn;t going to win out as it isn't as powerful as Quantum mechanics and as Einsten wrote it, Relativity doesn't capture non locality. Hmm.. wasn't Einstein a Jew anyway?"
My wondering about Einstein's heritage canbe seen as just that; wondering. But given the context (the debate about physics), by conversational implicature I am being anti-semitic. In logic it is called an ad hominem argument, and is fallacious. Perhaps what Mick did was wrong, but argue about why the act was wrong. Insulting Mick is a dishonorable thing to do. You can do the honorable thing and apologize for your wrong act which is a separate incident from Mick's e-mail. If you say, "I won't until he won't", then you aren't seeing th epoint. It maters not who said what and when and to whom and all that, really. If you did something wrong, and I ARGUED that you did, you should own up to it.
Mick is a moral person himself, and I want to share something that occurred on a thread made early on when the Strider Forum just opened. Mick said this in a thread:
A word or two on sharpened crowbars
There is a lot of talk these days about "tactical knives." If you look through the forums,
you will no doubt notice it. When I look through these posts, I can't help but notice that
the word "tactical" has been bastardized quite a bit. Now it basically means BLACK.... I
guess... In one post I think it was summed up rather nicely:
"Is it vouge now to have the thick tactical look or do these knife really have an
advantage? "
With the exception of correcting the misspelling of "tactical" this is a direct quote. I have
no idea who authored this quote, it isn't important. It's the idea I'm after. The thought
that this person, and others, think this way. I can't decide to laugh or vomit.
Mick went on to offer reasons why the spirit of the quote was wrong. Also, Mick wanted to keep the person quoted anonymous, as Mick wanted to talk about the content of the quote, not the person quoted. Well, the person came on the thread and posted. He said that the quote was his, but then did 2 things. The poster filled in more details about what he said and why he said what he said to help us readers out. As well, the poster said that Mick only partially quoted him and didn't accurately capture what was said. In response, Mick said this:
Okay...
First of all, you're a stud for coming forward and claiming my clipped phrase. Very honorable indeed.
Secondly, your post didn't offend me. I wanted to address the topic, your post expressed the thought that I was after: The fact that there are people out there who are using knives to do things that maybe shouldn't be done with a knife. But if they did not, your safety would be in jeopardy. Sometimes knives must be tools. Sometimes people forget. That bugs me. Those people should be thought of.
I'm sorry if my posting of your quote was offensive. It wasn't meant to be. I had in fact hoped you would remain unanimous, but am glad you have not. E-mail us, we'll send you a shirt or something.
Notice that Mick apologized for the partial quote and thanked the poster for his response. Also, Mick said the guy had a lot of balls for standing up for himself when he thought he was wronged. The poster received a shirt for doing so as well.
I offer the anectode to temper temptations to attack Mick personally. As I have said before, if you have a problem with what Mick said, go ahead and say so. If you want to argue that Mick was wrong (or right), please do so. Make sure you offer premises to support your conclusion. If you want to insult Mick, through conversational implicature or directly, you do nothing but dishonor to yourself.
There is nothing wrong with admitting when you have been dishonorable. To repeat what I said earlier, I e-mailed a forumite apologizing for doing what I thought was a dishonorable thing to a person to whom I look up to. In response, the person actually told me I did nothign wrong. But I felt I did do something wrong and I apologized for it.
Ketsugo:
if you search this thread you will not see an apology from Mick. That is beside my point. What I argued for is that what you said was not "just an opinion", and it was not the same thing Mick did. An opinion would be to say "Mick was wrong to tell SKTRGNLDR to F off." An argument would be to say "Mick was wrong to tell SKTRGNLDR to F off, and here's why..." The ... is where premises are given which are meant to support the conclustion that, in thi shypothetical example, Mick was wrong to tell SKTRGNLDR to F off.
You think Mick was wrong. That is fine. To respond in kind to Mick would be to tell him to F off, from your perspective. Instead you insinuate that Mick has such a bad attitude that he probably got a DISHONORABLE DISCHARGE from the militaty as a result of it, as evidenced by Mick's e-mail response. You address this claim in your last post, saying, "Please don't misquote me! I stated Wonder if he received a dishonorable discharge?!? BIG difference. IMO."
What you have offered is not an opinion, but an insult. The concept of conversational implicature shows that your correct quote still is an insult. To say that you wonder if mick received an honorable diischarge is to imply that Mick's attitude is so bad, it is likely the reason that Mick is no longer in the military. Furthermore, the reason that Mick is no longer in the military is that he was dishonorably discharged. Conversational implicature is akin to talk of the letter of the law and the spitit of the law. You weren't really wondering if Mick was dishonorably discharged. Given the context of this entire thread, you brought up "dishonorable discharge" to insult Mick, not because you were wondering about a fact of the world. Even IF you were JUST WONDERING, given the context of this thread you still should not have posted your statement.
Think of it this way. Suppose we were discussing physics. There is a debate in mysics about Einsteinian Relativity and Quantum mechanics. Both theories have been experimentally verified to great degrees and impact our lives daily. But the problem is that the two theories seem to contradict each other. That is enough backroung for my point, as this is not physicsforums.com! So, suppose you were arguing that Relativity will win the day in this dispute. Now, in response, suppose I said, "Yeah, but Relativity isn;t going to win out as it isn't as powerful as Quantum mechanics and as Einsten wrote it, Relativity doesn't capture non locality. Hmm.. wasn't Einstein a Jew anyway?"
My wondering about Einstein's heritage canbe seen as just that; wondering. But given the context (the debate about physics), by conversational implicature I am being anti-semitic. In logic it is called an ad hominem argument, and is fallacious. Perhaps what Mick did was wrong, but argue about why the act was wrong. Insulting Mick is a dishonorable thing to do. You can do the honorable thing and apologize for your wrong act which is a separate incident from Mick's e-mail. If you say, "I won't until he won't", then you aren't seeing th epoint. It maters not who said what and when and to whom and all that, really. If you did something wrong, and I ARGUED that you did, you should own up to it.
Mick is a moral person himself, and I want to share something that occurred on a thread made early on when the Strider Forum just opened. Mick said this in a thread:
A word or two on sharpened crowbars
There is a lot of talk these days about "tactical knives." If you look through the forums,
you will no doubt notice it. When I look through these posts, I can't help but notice that
the word "tactical" has been bastardized quite a bit. Now it basically means BLACK.... I
guess... In one post I think it was summed up rather nicely:
"Is it vouge now to have the thick tactical look or do these knife really have an
advantage? "
With the exception of correcting the misspelling of "tactical" this is a direct quote. I have
no idea who authored this quote, it isn't important. It's the idea I'm after. The thought
that this person, and others, think this way. I can't decide to laugh or vomit.
Mick went on to offer reasons why the spirit of the quote was wrong. Also, Mick wanted to keep the person quoted anonymous, as Mick wanted to talk about the content of the quote, not the person quoted. Well, the person came on the thread and posted. He said that the quote was his, but then did 2 things. The poster filled in more details about what he said and why he said what he said to help us readers out. As well, the poster said that Mick only partially quoted him and didn't accurately capture what was said. In response, Mick said this:
Okay...
First of all, you're a stud for coming forward and claiming my clipped phrase. Very honorable indeed.
Secondly, your post didn't offend me. I wanted to address the topic, your post expressed the thought that I was after: The fact that there are people out there who are using knives to do things that maybe shouldn't be done with a knife. But if they did not, your safety would be in jeopardy. Sometimes knives must be tools. Sometimes people forget. That bugs me. Those people should be thought of.
I'm sorry if my posting of your quote was offensive. It wasn't meant to be. I had in fact hoped you would remain unanimous, but am glad you have not. E-mail us, we'll send you a shirt or something.
Notice that Mick apologized for the partial quote and thanked the poster for his response. Also, Mick said the guy had a lot of balls for standing up for himself when he thought he was wronged. The poster received a shirt for doing so as well.
I offer the anectode to temper temptations to attack Mick personally. As I have said before, if you have a problem with what Mick said, go ahead and say so. If you want to argue that Mick was wrong (or right), please do so. Make sure you offer premises to support your conclusion. If you want to insult Mick, through conversational implicature or directly, you do nothing but dishonor to yourself.
There is nothing wrong with admitting when you have been dishonorable. To repeat what I said earlier, I e-mailed a forumite apologizing for doing what I thought was a dishonorable thing to a person to whom I look up to. In response, the person actually told me I did nothign wrong. But I felt I did do something wrong and I apologized for it.
This thread was like totally amazing. I mean at first I looked at it to see why this person wouldn't buy a Strider. O.K. So then this guy gets jumped. Then other people start getting jumped on. So now as I make this post, it seem that the original 2 players in this foray are like, out of the picture. Everybody else left to argue among themselves.
Ya just can't get this kind of entertainment anywhere else
Ya just can't get this kind of entertainment anywhere else
Crayola,
Great post! Read my post above yours. I stand by that. True, I judged Mick's character by this one incident. If he were to apologize for the <i>F-You</i>, I would change my opinion of his character and compliment him for doing so and take back my snide remark.
<b><i>Even IF you were JUST WONDERING, given the context of this thread you still should not have posted your statement.</b></i>
Again, that's not a fact, but your opinion. I don't happen to agree.
Best regards,
John
Great post! Read my post above yours. I stand by that. True, I judged Mick's character by this one incident. If he were to apologize for the <i>F-You</i>, I would change my opinion of his character and compliment him for doing so and take back my snide remark.
<b><i>Even IF you were JUST WONDERING, given the context of this thread you still should not have posted your statement.</b></i>
Again, that's not a fact, but your opinion. I don't happen to agree.
Best regards,
John
I am glad that this thread is remaining Civil.
I just wanted to clear one more thing up Ketsugo. When I said, "Even IF you were JUST WONDERING, given the context of this thread you still should not have posted your statement.", I was not stating an opinion. It was the conclusion of my argument. Through conversational implicature all you did was insult someone. I gathered from your posts that you feel that SKTRGNLDR was wronged, and is owed an apology. I argued that you wronged Mick, and if you feel one ought to right wrongs, you are in the wrong until you right yours. Again, there is a diffeence between opinion and argument, and I listed what that is in 2 of my posts I believe.
I reiterate what Ketsugo said here: Have a GREAT Thanksgiving!
I just wanted to clear one more thing up Ketsugo. When I said, "Even IF you were JUST WONDERING, given the context of this thread you still should not have posted your statement.", I was not stating an opinion. It was the conclusion of my argument. Through conversational implicature all you did was insult someone. I gathered from your posts that you feel that SKTRGNLDR was wronged, and is owed an apology. I argued that you wronged Mick, and if you feel one ought to right wrongs, you are in the wrong until you right yours. Again, there is a diffeence between opinion and argument, and I listed what that is in 2 of my posts I believe.
I reiterate what Ketsugo said here: Have a GREAT Thanksgiving!
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Meanwhile, somewhere in Oceanside, the Striderguys continue to grind hardcore blades for hardcore individuals.......
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Crayola, no wonder you were upset you lost that whole post and had to do it again. If I had had to type that much for a second time I would have said to hell with it. I admire your resolve to get your point across.
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- Feb 16, 2000
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- 1,385
Okay look...
I have to say that this whole thing is truly amazing.
It blows me away. The emotional response.
The sick part is that this is simply a transaction between two people.
It's not any of your business. I'm not saying your not invited to participate in what is going on here. I'm saying that your emotional flare ups are shocking.
We live in a world where people feel as if they have the right to act with complete impunity.
That bothers me. Because of that, I hold people accountable for their words and actions. I felt that I was justified in using the tactic I did with Mr.SKTRGNLDR.
Obviously the jury is split on whether I was right or wrong.
Some of the "pointers" I've heard, though appreciated, don't work for me.
I'm not willing to tell someone something in "another" way. That would be dishonest.
I'm not willing to waist someone's time by not returning their e-mail. That too is dishonest.
I think all the name calling is ludicrous.
No one here is sucking up to any knife makers. This is an argument of principle.
Go back and read your posts. Those that are not edited for content. The things that were said are amazing. YOUR offended that I told someone to fkoff.
That was a matter of two men communicating.
There was an unfortunate mis communication. Which could have been cleared up with a little more e-mail. Or not.
You people are going apeshit!
Its very funny. But disturbing if you get an over view.
Pull it together!
Mr. SKTRGNLDR,
I'm not sorry I told you to fkoff.
I am sorry I didn't have the opportunity to talk to you. I thank you for the tools you have provided . Great gear. More than likely we'll cross paths again.
Ketsugo,
You need to hope that there are a lot of me's in the US Military.
I know its hard to imagine a Military where someone uses the word fk. But sometimes it slips. "Oops sorry sarge"..
Honorable discharge.
There were also some very great things said and I thank you for those.
Keith Montgomery,
Your list of hero's is magnificent.
1whobuys... what's up your butt?
Talk to ya later
Mick
I have to say that this whole thing is truly amazing.
It blows me away. The emotional response.
The sick part is that this is simply a transaction between two people.
It's not any of your business. I'm not saying your not invited to participate in what is going on here. I'm saying that your emotional flare ups are shocking.
We live in a world where people feel as if they have the right to act with complete impunity.
That bothers me. Because of that, I hold people accountable for their words and actions. I felt that I was justified in using the tactic I did with Mr.SKTRGNLDR.
Obviously the jury is split on whether I was right or wrong.
Some of the "pointers" I've heard, though appreciated, don't work for me.
I'm not willing to tell someone something in "another" way. That would be dishonest.
I'm not willing to waist someone's time by not returning their e-mail. That too is dishonest.
I think all the name calling is ludicrous.
No one here is sucking up to any knife makers. This is an argument of principle.
Go back and read your posts. Those that are not edited for content. The things that were said are amazing. YOUR offended that I told someone to fkoff.
That was a matter of two men communicating.
There was an unfortunate mis communication. Which could have been cleared up with a little more e-mail. Or not.
You people are going apeshit!
Its very funny. But disturbing if you get an over view.
Pull it together!
Mr. SKTRGNLDR,
I'm not sorry I told you to fkoff.
I am sorry I didn't have the opportunity to talk to you. I thank you for the tools you have provided . Great gear. More than likely we'll cross paths again.
Ketsugo,
You need to hope that there are a lot of me's in the US Military.
I know its hard to imagine a Military where someone uses the word fk. But sometimes it slips. "Oops sorry sarge"..
Honorable discharge.
There were also some very great things said and I thank you for those.
Keith Montgomery,
Your list of hero's is magnificent.
1whobuys... what's up your butt?
Talk to ya later
Mick
Richard
BOUNCED EMAIL: I need to update my email address in my profile!
- Joined
- Oct 3, 1998
- Messages
- 1,742
Sarcasm or not, I personally think the comment made about Micks military service is plain wrong. Our soldiers who serve and know that they may have to be injured or killed doing it is probably the bravest thing a person can do. No matter if you like Micks handling of the incident or not is irrelevent. His service to the nation is much appreciated and should be completely respected. As you can probably tell from my previous posts, I dont agree with the way he handled the situation, but I also realize that he and others like him that served our nation are the very ones who preserve my right to disagree. For that, he and all of our soldiers have my appreciaton.
Nice post Mick,
I have no problem with ANY word. I say it myself, often. My issue was you being hot headed and treating a prospective customer like ****. True, that is your business, I just choose not to do business with proprietors with that kind of attitude.
Best regards,
John
I have no problem with ANY word. I say it myself, often. My issue was you being hot headed and treating a prospective customer like ****. True, that is your business, I just choose not to do business with proprietors with that kind of attitude.
Best regards,
John
open your minds and be free.........
Just to clear up a thing or two,
Some of you think that Mr. Strider and I had an interchange.
We did not.
To be quit honest I was impressed by his response to
"My Interpretation of Strider Guys"
He remained collected and was not lured in.
The exchange last night was between men, and for the most part did not come down to personal attacks.(well there was that sausage comment, huh JR?) But all in all no harm, no foul.
We just got to know each other a little better.
And to Mr. David415, was your input a personal attack or a threat?
Not what one would exspect from a "moderator"
I edited my post because I was finished talking with the men and it had run it's course.
It was a Point, counterpoint conversation.....
As my last post states " If you snooze you lose" (read it, it's unedited)
I'm sorry you couldn't stay up for the discussion, you missed nothing to make you threaten me.
I'm sorry you feel that you need to ban any one that doesn't think the way that you do.
I feel that those that where not there at that time and place need not chime in with after thoughts.
That is why I edited my post, once again Please see "if you snooze you lose" post.
Points where made and are still valid tonight, as this on going thread proves.
Contempt breeds contempt.
And to the 2% that get it "Rock On"
Just to clear up a thing or two,
Some of you think that Mr. Strider and I had an interchange.
We did not.
To be quit honest I was impressed by his response to
"My Interpretation of Strider Guys"
He remained collected and was not lured in.
The exchange last night was between men, and for the most part did not come down to personal attacks.(well there was that sausage comment, huh JR?) But all in all no harm, no foul.
We just got to know each other a little better.
And to Mr. David415, was your input a personal attack or a threat?
Not what one would exspect from a "moderator"
I edited my post because I was finished talking with the men and it had run it's course.
It was a Point, counterpoint conversation.....
As my last post states " If you snooze you lose" (read it, it's unedited)
I'm sorry you couldn't stay up for the discussion, you missed nothing to make you threaten me.
I'm sorry you feel that you need to ban any one that doesn't think the way that you do.
I feel that those that where not there at that time and place need not chime in with after thoughts.
That is why I edited my post, once again Please see "if you snooze you lose" post.
Points where made and are still valid tonight, as this on going thread proves.
Contempt breeds contempt.
And to the 2% that get it "Rock On"
Mr Strider,
What is up my butt is the "wanna-be's"
I'm sure that your knifes in the right places at the right times are very capable in the right hands.
I would venture to say that most of them end up being fondled late at night and then slipped away between the mattrest.
I have a problem with all the wanna-be that fought your fight for you last night.
Didn't you post the link to this string, with a smug comment?
If not, sorry.
If so, that was weak!
The sheep lined up to protect the Wolf. (I have to admit, admirable that they are willing to lay down for you like that)
None the less, you stand behind the way you handled your situation and that's what men do.
(Wow, Scattergun Tech......Hope that didn't cost you $40,000.00 or $50,000.00 dollars.)
Real men can also admit when they are wrong.
I hope if you are ever wrong that you have the strengh to admit it.
As to my high noon reference,
In the old west people where polite and courteous to each other. They had incintive to be polite.
There are to many people that forget "Do on to others as you would have them do on to you"
You know the people that feel that they are do every thing, but have never gotten off their a$$ to earn it. I'm sure WE all know of a few.
Well Sir, You asked, and that is part or what's up my butt.
As I am tired from doing battle all day, I won't rant on.
Good luck to you sir, Rock On.
What is up my butt is the "wanna-be's"
I'm sure that your knifes in the right places at the right times are very capable in the right hands.
I would venture to say that most of them end up being fondled late at night and then slipped away between the mattrest.
I have a problem with all the wanna-be that fought your fight for you last night.
Didn't you post the link to this string, with a smug comment?
If not, sorry.
If so, that was weak!
The sheep lined up to protect the Wolf. (I have to admit, admirable that they are willing to lay down for you like that)
None the less, you stand behind the way you handled your situation and that's what men do.
(Wow, Scattergun Tech......Hope that didn't cost you $40,000.00 or $50,000.00 dollars.)
Real men can also admit when they are wrong.
I hope if you are ever wrong that you have the strengh to admit it.
As to my high noon reference,
In the old west people where polite and courteous to each other. They had incintive to be polite.
There are to many people that forget "Do on to others as you would have them do on to you"
You know the people that feel that they are do every thing, but have never gotten off their a$$ to earn it. I'm sure WE all know of a few.
Well Sir, You asked, and that is part or what's up my butt.
As I am tired from doing battle all day, I won't rant on.
Good luck to you sir, Rock On.
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2000
- Messages
- 817
I love how you guys want to throw around insults calling us all wannabes, especially when you guys are the ones throwing out the insults and veiled threats. The only thing I "wannabe" is in bed next to Jessica Alba, but that aint gonna happen. Th majority of the folks here were simply expressing their views on business conduct. A lot of us disagree, and it is cool to talk about it. But the only tough wannabes are yu guys who come on here starting the name calling and threatening. Get over it.
JR
JR
Hey 1whobuys,
Wanne be what? I sometimes wonder myself what some of these folks do and I don't like people who hide behind keyboards so I will tell you about me. I have been a cop for 8 years, all of it on the street and between my active and guard time I have 10 years of military service. Due to the heinious attacks on our country, I am back on active duty for a year. And guess what? I know several of the people from the Strider forum and compared to most of them I am a lightweight. Who the **** are you? What the **** do you do? This is not defending Strider knives, it is keeping you from throwing insults around with no rebuttal. If I want to own more knives than I can possibly carry then it's none of your damn business. I post with my real first name and anyone coming to Louisville could find me if they want to. Open invitation.
Wanne be what? I sometimes wonder myself what some of these folks do and I don't like people who hide behind keyboards so I will tell you about me. I have been a cop for 8 years, all of it on the street and between my active and guard time I have 10 years of military service. Due to the heinious attacks on our country, I am back on active duty for a year. And guess what? I know several of the people from the Strider forum and compared to most of them I am a lightweight. Who the **** are you? What the **** do you do? This is not defending Strider knives, it is keeping you from throwing insults around with no rebuttal. If I want to own more knives than I can possibly carry then it's none of your damn business. I post with my real first name and anyone coming to Louisville could find me if they want to. Open invitation.
wolfmann601
Gone, but not forgotton. RIP Ira.
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2001
- Messages
- 7,385
Sir, I ONLY wanted to be what I am, who I am, and WHERE I am. Please, look at my profile. That is there NOT as a BADGE of pride, but as a simple indicator that I have PAID MY DUES......Ira J. Migdal
Now, from my time in the the world of PTSD. STOP!!!!!! Breathe!!!!!!THINK!!!!!!F$cking A, DRIVE-ON!!!!!!!!!
Now, from my time in the the world of PTSD. STOP!!!!!! Breathe!!!!!!THINK!!!!!!F$cking A, DRIVE-ON!!!!!!!!!
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