C Ben Susrool is ok! Problems solved!

So...

OP agreed to pay a $100 nonrefundable down payment for the sellers "troubles."

The end.

OP agreed to these terms further by paying F&F.

The seller absolutely does not need to give back money OP agreed to give as a gift. End of story. Lesson learned.

Now...as to the sellers terms...

What a load of horse pucky. $100 bucks for nothing...how lame.

100% of my transactions are international and the "work" involved ain't worth 20 cents.

Ridiculous terms that OP should never had agreed to.


...but he did and has to live with it.

...IMHO...
 
Hello mod,
Problem is there is no conversation: he doesn't answer anymore...
But i do want my money back!

^ There are a few of the typical sanctimonious PayPal police people, ragging on you here; for sending your PayPal payment via the F&F option (which by the way- seems to be the only method that many so called ethical BF member's use when transacting Internationally). The same argument can be made against the seller here. He was a participating party to this transaction, and chose to sell his Goods on this forum, accepting payment via the F&F/Gift option (clearly in violation of PP terms). < The seller doesn't deserve a free pass!

OP: report the seller to PayPal, for using their service in direct violation to their stipulated terms. How convenient for this seller: to terminate this transaction, and keep $100 for his time. What a crock of crap! :thumbdn:



$100 for that?

More or less, sounds like the OP has a valid complaint. Just my. 02

^^ +1

I'm just glad that I don't have to look in the mirror in the morning, & know that I'm the type of person who feels that this is an acceptable way to deal with other people...profiting the equivalent of $200 an hour, for 1/2 hour inconvenience.
 
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If the buyer can't understand the " language" ,he has no business trading on this forum because he himself can't protect from a bad call. He never should have done the deal,the seller laid it out to him. This is a deal that never should have went through.
FWIW I've dealt with Tom many times with no problems,good guy on my books.
 
The sales terms from the seller had shitty grammar and was poorly worded. Also, to keep his $100 out of principle, as the seller says, is just wrong. Don't keep a customer's money because you don't like them.

Also, when I see "I have no reason to lie or cheat" in a sales pitch my red flag senses start tingling.
 
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If I pay a "non-refundable deposit" to a company - lets say for a vacation for example - and I decide I can't go on the vacation and cancel then of course I will lose my deposit, even if they sell the vacation to someone else.
But if the travel company cancel my vacation because they can't deliver for whatever reason then I would absolutely be entitled to my "non-refundable" deposit back. This is the law in Europe; I don't know about the US but can't imagine it would be different.
In this case, if the buyer had cancelled the sale then fair enough. But it was the seller who cancelled, and he should refund the deposit.
The seller was misinformed by his Post Office - it's not illegal to send a camp knife form the US to Belgium and this should have been obvious. It's not the buyer's fault that the seller has a problem at his end with delivery.
$100 for wrapping a knife that had to be wrapped anyway regardless of where it was being sent?
Maybe the OP used some inappropriate language - I don't know, but if I were the OP I would be angry too. What a scam!
 
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Doing a little research, the legal standing appears to be that when the buyer is not the one that cancels the deal, the deposit is forfeit. No matter how you look at it, legally or from the poi t of view of a normal person, the seller keeping the deposit when he had to cancel the sale is pretty scummy. While obviously not his intentions, he basically just ran back and forth for under an hour and got paid $100 for doing next to nothing. If I was the OP I would be fuming when somebody took my money and gave me nothing for it but excuses.
 
Not a seller with whom I will ever deal.

Beyond the buisness issues involved, this situation goes against the grain of the community here. My BF BST experiences have been marked by kindness and integrity. This situation lacks both.
 
Agreed, as the seller is the one who cancelled the sale, the deposit should go back to the buyer. The whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
 
One more to add to the ignore list i think.

Buyer or seller?

I'd say both: the buyer for his inability to read, and the seller for his utterly obnoxious sales terms. If you don't want to ship to Europe, that's fine, but it's really not that difficult, and the terms the seller presented are insulting to our European knife friends.
 
I have been in touch with C Ben Susrool. He sent me his side of the story. Please note he does not want to discuss it any further with Engels82, for reasons he states in the following message.

* ****** **** ****** *

I choose not to respond to this thread just as I chose not to respond to his last few emails where he threatened and called me a thief, crook and liar.
However, I will make these points, if you want to post them please preface them with the note that I choose not to give him the satisfaction of posting .
1. the fellow trashed up my for sale post trying to get me to agree to sell out of CONUS. (should have been my first clue he cannot read)
2. I did not "make" him do anything. I told him of my terms, never expecting him to agree to them.
3. He emailed me back saying he understood and asking for my PayPal address.
4. He sent the $100, I went to the PO with the wrapped package and had them weigh it and quote me shipping and insurance. I really didn't think they would insure it. They said they would at over $50 for priority mail, and IIRR somewhere near $36 for ship and insurance. He wrote back to go the cheaper route.*
5. I reported this to him, and he asked if I was going to give him credit for the first $100. I told him NO, that was not our agreement, to go back and reread our emails. He whined and bitched and I told him i could relabel the package and sell to someone else.
6. He sent another email, maybe the next day, and said I was right. He paid through PayPal.
7. (this all took place over a few days during the Veterans say holiday.)*
8. After I saw from PPal he had paid, I went back to PO with the package. There they told me I had to cover the package with brown wrapping paper. I did, then went back to the post office, they took the package and read the customs declaration and told me they could not ship a camping knife to Belgium as it was considered a
weapon. I asked to speak to the manager and was told the same thing.
9. I reported this Engels, and told him I would try to go to UPS the next day and see if they would ship it. Hours later, I checked online UPS and determined the shipper is liable, and decided I could not take a chance with confiscation and having to return the payment and shipping and losing the goods.
10. I reported to Engels that i had no other choice but to return his payment and shipping, which I did.
Then the threats, cussing and whining began. He said he was going to complain to PPal about something he did not agree with. I told him to be sure and tell them he did not agree with it now, but did originally.

Now it is the principal of the thing, I am determined he will not get $100 from me.

Tom



Wow, this is unreal. Never seen anything like it. Both parties could have handled the start of this transaction better. But in the end the seller cancelled the deal (which I guess is his right), but to keep the person's $100 in this situation is quite despicable.
Tom - give the guy his $100 back and stop being difficult. What you do or don't do here really says a lot about your character.
Being that I now understand how your "principles" work - on to the ignore list you go.
 
As I understand this, the buyer paid the seller $100, in exchange for which the seller agreed to nothing more than packing the knife and determining the cost of shipping and insurance. Buyer paid with F&F (as it was, by agreement, non-refundable, this PP "Nazi" doesn't really have a problem with using F&F for that). Once the USPS said it wouldn't ship the knife, seller determined to keep the $100 and cease all efforts at concluding the transaction.

The buyer essentially left it entirely in the seller's discretion to determine when he (the seller) didn't want to do any more "work" for the $100. My takeaway from this one is this: The buyer can't complain about getting screwed when he invited the screwing by agreeing to such a ridiculous demand. The seller had a moral obligation to make a far greater effort to complete the transaction than he made. Neither party has covered himself in glory on this one - but i have more sympathy for the buyer than the seller.
 
I'm sympathetic to the seller, that being said the extra $100 was contingent on the knife being actually shipped. Since it wasn't, I'd grit my teeth and refund the extra $100.
 
As I understand this, the buyer paid the seller $100, in exchange for which the seller agreed to nothing more than packing the knife and determining the cost of shipping and insurance. Buyer paid with F&F (as it was, by agreement, non-refundable, this PP "Nazi" doesn't really have a problem with using F&F for that). Once the USPS said it wouldn't ship the knife, seller determined to keep the $100 and cease all efforts at concluding the transaction.

The buyer essentially left it entirely in the seller's discretion to determine when he (the seller) didn't want to do any more "work" for the $100. My takeaway from this one is this: The buyer can't complain about getting screwed when he invited the screwing by agreeing to such a ridiculous demand.

It wasn't a matter of how much "work" was involved, the seller simply decided to absolve himself of any responsibility of shipping the knife after agreeing the deal:

I checked online UPS and determined the shipper is liable, and decided I could not take a chance with confiscation and having to return the payment and shipping and losing the goods.

Had he shipped to a US buyer, then he would have been responsible for ensuring it got to its destination. He decided after making the deal that he didn't want to accept any responsibility for shipping abroad, despite having accepted $100 to do just that.

The buyer agreed to the sellers demand for a deposit in the expectation of receiving a knife. He did everything the seller asked of him, and is out 100 bucks.

And by the way, the buyer didn't "trash" the sales thread as he was accused of - he asked very politely if the seller would consider shipping to Belgium.

In return he has been scammed, simply because he is an international buyer and for no other reason.
 
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